5th Park!

[Goofy45]

I was at WDW this past year and I was standing in line for Tower of Terror and I heard a man talking about a 5th park all about roller coasters coming to WDW. I heard it from several other people too. Did anyone else hear about it? It might just be a rumor or it could be true!

 

[I'mNoPrince]

There was an Artical about the Year 2010 from Motley Fool something that has been a good sorse of knowledge. It this look into the future he mentioned the offend rumored Beastly Park as the 5th park .

many are now going by this and the many of other rumores about it and running as if it a fact now . I still tink tey have plenty of space for attractions in the 4 parks they have but would like to see an IOA type Disney park. Others say because of the Harry Potter area of IOA is another reason for this to be starting back up as Disney was said to get the Jump on HP but lost out or bailed out

 

[ChrisFL]

There was an Artical about the Year 2010 from Motley Fool something that has been a good sorse of knowledge. It this look into the future he mentioned the offend rumored Beastly Park as the 5th park .

many are now going by this and the many of other rumores about it and running as if it a fact now . I still tink tey have plenty of space for attractions in the 4 parks they have but would like to see an IOA type Disney park. Others say because of the Harry Potter area of IOA is another reason for this to be starting back up as Disney was said to get the Jump on HP but lost out or bailed out

The article is the work of fiction, posted as a fantasy about what companies could be doing in a few years time, nothing more.

There are several things here.

First, yes, there was talk, MANY years ago about a 5th park with more thrill rides to compete with IOA. It never left eary phases as far as I'm aware.

Second, WDW already has enough of issues keeping staffed it's parks and resorts with 55,000+ QUALITY people, adding another park would make this even more difficult.

Third, there IS a possibility of a smaller, limited attendance park for $300+ per person which would be more of an evening park located near AK. This does have some credibility as it fits in with not needing more staff (the AK employees could theoretically work both parks in some cases) and there's other reasons as well.

Actually, thinking about it just now...this higher-priced park is said to have some possibly more adult related activities and could include all meals/drinks. Perhaps this is why Pleasure Island is losing some of it's clubs?

 

[Imagineer_Tech]

I was at WDW this past year and I was standing in line for Tower of Terror and I heard a man talking about a 5th park all about roller coasters coming to WDW. I heard it from several other people too. Did anyone else hear about it? It might just be a rumor or it could be true!

All about Roller Coasters, YAY!!!

 

[GoHerd1028]

300 per person? Well that just priced me and several others out!

 

[owensamo]

300 per person? Well that just priced me and several others out!

This sounds like it would be positioned as an answer to Sea World's Discovery Cove, which is like $250-$300 for a full day with a dolphin swim, including lunch (and drinks?)

For $300, Disney had better have some pretty good attractions - on par with a dolphin swim - or people won't think it's worth the money and they won't come.

Amanda

 

[GoHerd1028]

for me and a family of 4...there is not anything or anyone worth paying $1200 to swim with or anything for 1 day.

 

[ChrisFL]

for me and a family of 4...there is not anything or anyone worth paying $1200 to swim with or anything for 1 day.

Well, for example Discovery Cove also includes a pass worth, I think 5-7 days of admission to Sea World (and maybe Busch Gardens?)

I could see Disney having a park hopper included in the price possibly.

 

[minnie61650]

My educated guess is that if WDW opened a 5th gate--it would be a WDW park that is aleady built but the park would be enhanced.

Before you say impossible let me explain I am talking about World Showcase. If more attractions were added to both Future World and World Showcase Disney could divide Epcot into two separate parks with a separate admission to each.

AS ChisFL has already pointed out WDW is short on staff.

...... WDW already has enough of issues keeping staffed it's parks and resorts with 55,000+ QUALITY people, adding another park would make this even more difficult.

Dividing Epcot into two parks would keep the numbers of staff needed about the same.

BTW:

Rumor has it that when the Imagineers were planning Epcot it only included the Future World part. At the same time they were
working on a park to showcase different countries but they were afraid a park about different countries would not draw enough guests and then one of the Imagineers took the two models of Epcot and World Showcase and pushed them together to form the two-parted Epcot that we have today.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[MJMcBride]

there will never be a 5th park. It makes no sense to do it

 

[ChrisFL]

there will never be a 5th park. It makes no sense to do it

it makes sense if it makes dollars

 

[MJMcBride]

it makes sense if it makes dollars

but it won't make enough money

 

[CanadianGuy]

there will never be a 5th park. It makes no sense to do it

Never is an awfully long time..

With all the additional on-property resort occupancy (Western Development / Four Seasons / new larger capacity in the Contemporary Tower etc) coming online in the next 12 years..

Sooner or later a 5th gate of some sort will make sense.

Might not be til 2020, but 'never' is a bold statement. For a long time people said there would never be a fourth park.. but there is.

Part of the logic in Disney's progression to date is two fold:

- Make enough stuff to keep them busy at Disney for the average 7 night vacation so they never leave Disney's loving cash registers.

- Make enough stuff to keep them coming back so they can try to 'see it all'.

Over on the themeparks board, we've even seen many posters in the last 12 months begging for Disney to have 14 and 21 day tickets for North American guests like they do for UK guests.

Knox

 

[MJMcBride]

Might not be til 2020, but 'never' is a bold statement. For a long time people said there would never be a fourth park.. but there is.

And there are probably people within Disney who think that building the 4th park was a mistake.

- Make enough stuff to keep them busy at Disney for the average 7 night vacation so they never leave Disney's loving cash registers.

Agreed. But it makes a lot more fiscal sense to build up the current Studios and DAK then add a fifth park. All a 5th park would do is take visitors away from the current 4, not add visitors. Its just a redistribution at this point. As it is, DAK and the Studios have a significantly smaller number of single day passes purchased. Thats a problem and why those parks underperform MK and Epcot.

Over on the themeparks board, we've even seen many posters in the last 12 months begging for Disney to have 14 and 21 day tickets for North American guests like they do for UK guests.

You are talking about a relatively low number of Disney fanatics. This will never be the norm. The norm will be a 7 day vacation. But even with the 14 day visitor, they already spend the vast majority of their time at Disney anyway. Perhaps you will take a 1/2 day or so from Universal for this rare group of people (2 week vacationers). Thats hardly enough reason to build a 5th gate.

I still say we will never get a 5th gate. At least not in my lifetime.

 

[ChrisFL]

And there are probably people within Disney who think that building the 4th park was a mistake.





Agreed. But it makes a lot more fiscal sense to build up the current Studios and DAK then add a fifth park. All a 5th park would do is take visitors away from the current 4, not add visitors. Its just a redistribution at this point. As it is, DAK and the Studios have a significantly smaller number of single day passes purchased. Thats a problem and why those parks underperform MK and Epcot.





You are talking about a relatively low number of Disney fanatics. This will never be the norm. The norm will be a 7 day vacation. But even with the 14 day visitor, they already spend the vast majority of their time at Disney anyway. Perhaps you will take a 1/2 day or so from Universal for this rare group of people (2 week vacationers). Thats hardly enough reason to build a 5th gate.

I still say we will never get a 5th gate. At least not in my lifetime.

You're implying that the 5th gate would be a full day park. Rumors like I'm suggesting are that it won't be, but an evening park and fits right into an after-hours schedule with AK next to it. It won't be a full size park from what I've heard, just a small, limited capacity park.

Since a few days ago, I've heard more things "blowing in the wind" about this and Im starting to expect this could become a reality sooner than we think.

 

[Another Voice]

Wow, Mr. McBride I must congratulate you on your growing understanding of the fundamentals behind Disney. It’s great to see good conversation around here that’s far above the usually fanboy “it’s magically magical magic that’s Disney always perfect” that one finds on most other boards.

The hard truth of the matter is that most Americans don’t want to spend their entire vacation in theme parks. That was the primary concern for WDW from the Porject X days and way the place was marketed as a vacation resort instead of just the Magic Kingdom with hotels. It’s also way EPCOT Center was so very different, and aimed at adults, than the Magic Kingdom was.

But as the company was run by Eisner/Iger – guys who just don’t get it – they decided the way to grow was just to do more of the same. Instead of different places for people with different tastes to visit, we’ve got four identical “wait in line – ride the ride – grab a hamburger” places. Any adult that doesn’t want Buzz Lightyear crammed down their throat fourteen different ways has no reason to visit WDW anymore. In the past, they could have gone sailing, golfing and had nice dinner without a princess photo-op. WDW no longer markets nor encourages those people any more and so they’ve drastically limited their market.

And adding a fifth opportunity to engorge on The Brand certainly isn’t going to help the situation. Animal Kingdom has done nothing but redistribute people from the other three parks; it hasn’t increased the length of stay nor has it attracted new guests to WDW. It simply recycles the people who were already going.

Disney’s only hope (and something they tried, poorly, with the Disney Institute) is to give people a different experience, something that appeals to the normal adult, not the theme park princess people clamoring for Dole Whip and limited edition Stitch trading pins.

That’s been the Holy Grail of the $300 a day park. But as an institution, Disney has found it impossible to come up with a concept that will work. The direction from corporate to make the parks nothing but a showcase for the other endeavors within Disney (i.e., the Winnie the Pooh ride is nothing but a commercial for Pooh merchandise). Those that have concepts for the megagate know it needs to be unique, different and un-brand-like in order for it to attract enough well-heeled adults to make a profit.

It’s the constant struggle within Disney – easy and cheep short term profits versus the long term interests of the company as a whole.

P.S. Disney had an "evening" park in Pleasure Island. It didn't last. And, in general, the "evening park" concept is devolving into ways to make the guests pay twice for the same park - the after parties in the Magic Kingdom, spliting out World Showcase from Future World. That direction costs a lot less money and so that's where Disney is heading.

 

[MJMcBride]

You're implying that the 5th gate would be a full day park.

I was indeed. A small scale park makes a bit more sense. Something like what they hoped DisneyQuest would become. It still makes more fiscal sense to expand current parks though

 

[MJMcBride]

Wow, Mr. McBride I must congratulate you on your growing understanding of the fundamentals behind Disney. It’s great to see good conversation around here that’s far above the usually fanboy “it’s magically magical magic that’s Disney always perfect” that one finds on most other boards.

Well, Mr Voice, after all this time, its nice to see you realize I'm not just a pixie-duster.

As for an evening park, I say its not a great idea, but much more feasible then a 5th gate. I kind of like the idea of a small "park" with amusement park type rides (a ferris wheel, etc) on the Boardwalk.

 

[CanadianGuy]

I was indeed. A small scale park makes a bit more sense. Something like what they hoped DisneyQuest would become. It still makes more fiscal sense to expand current parks though

Absolutely.... the next 10 years should be spent growing the current parks and increasing the turnstyle clicks at under-performing parks. To plan a 5th gate NOW or in the near-term would be folly.

I noticed you changed your statement from "never" to "in your lifetime." I don't disagree with that nearly as strongly.

And as for that 5th gate.. in 15 to 20 years maybe it is possible .. the world economy will dictate if it ever makes sense.

Oil costs more now than ever before.. but I can fly to Disney now for less money than I ever could before. Factor in inflation and it's MUCH cheaper now than ever before in the history of air travel..
(I'm speaking in US dollars, not Canadian dollars .. add in the recent change in currency valuation.. and the current price is below bargain basement for a flight from Maine to Florida)

Why? I'm guessing that economies of scale are ruling the roost .. more people than ever before want to go to Orlando. There are more flights to Orlando now... and those routes are generally quite profitable for airlines.

If that trend holds up (and I realize that's a big "if) and if the under performing parks can bring up their end of the deal (another big "if") .. a 5th gate is possible in 12 to 20 years.

For any that to happen, the price of oil can't exceed $150 a barrel in the near future. If that happens, I'd expect Disney to divest itself from major parts of their business tied to the travel industry and go to the licensing formula that A/V mentions.

I can't prove this .. but if history repeats and the U.S. elects a democratic president this fall, I fully expect the price of oil will take a huge hit downward.. a full-on slump. That would obviously be a 'good' thing as long as your name isn't Chevron or Exxon-Mobil.

There was a very interesting article that talked about the price of oil at the end of the first Bush presidency compared to the price of oil at the end of the Clinton presidency. I can't find it now.. but it's pretty interesting to read.

If I can find it .. I'll post it.

Disney's profits are VERY dependent on oil. So far the spike hasn't seemed to directly affect their bottom line in a significant way, but if the creep in pricing continues northward - I don't doubt that the face of Disney parks and resorts will change even more dramatically and even more negatively than we've seen to date.

And that would mean there would be no Disney-owned 5th gate in Florida -- ever. In anyone's lifetime.

There are too many variables in play not the least of which is who succeeds Iger at some point in the future?

I just don't think that any outcome is as of yet, predetermined...

If acknowledging that makes me magical-pixie-dust-spreading-fanboi, I can live with that.

Knox

 

[MJMcBride]

I noticed you changed your statement from "never" to "in your lifetime." I don't disagree with that nearly as strongly.

And as for that 5th gate.. in 15 to 20 years maybe it is possible .. the world economy will dictate if it ever makes sense.

I don't see how it will ever make sense financially. People spend a week on vacation. Building a 5th gate will not bring new people to WDW. It simply will not. Thus, it makes zero sense to build a 5th gate. The world economy has no bearing on that at all.

I plan on living for ever so "never"="lifetime"