5th Park inevitable ?

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by captain america 2003, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. captain america 2003

    captain america 2003 Always ready to see The World !

    Oct 18, 2003
    I've been thinking about this for a while and considered many possible reasons for all the new resort construction . A 5th Park to me seems like the only likely reason for all this new construction . I know Star Wars Galaxies Edge is going to be hugely popular and the reason many will suggest as the primary reason for all this resort expansion ...but I don't believe that it will be popular to the extent that Disney feels they can fill all these new rooms year round because of it . I believe that because of the coming 3rd Park that Universal has planned (though not yet announced) Disney has been planning a multilevel multi-year expansion to combat Universal's aggressive attempts to capture more of Disney's market share . Updating , upgrading , renovating , and expanding all the existing parks at an unprecedented pace shows that Disney is taking Universal's growth as a real threat to their kingdom and will fight back any and all ways to maintain their supremacy in the theme park industry . Building new resorts and a 5th theme park as well seem like another way Disney can and probably will secure their number 1 status in Orlando for the foreseeable future .
    LindaYoung likes this.
  2. umichigan10

    umichigan10 DIS Veteran

    Jan 6, 2011
    Not anytime soon. Not until all 4 parks are hitting capacity everyday. And maybe not even then
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  4. rteetz

    rteetz Rumors and News Moderator Moderator

    Feb 20, 2013
    Not gonna happen anytime soon. So many factors in play.

    Biggest is work force. Disney is having trouble finding workers as it is. Another park means another set of hundreds if not thousands of workers.
    tcufrog, yesdnil, JeanfromBNA and 6 others like this.
  5. Alesia

    Alesia DIS Veteran

    Feb 8, 2007
    Disney is building hotels for one reason: they're way more profitable than theme parks.

    I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that fifth gate.
  6. umichigan10

    umichigan10 DIS Veteran

    Jan 6, 2011
    And they’re confident they can fill additional rooms with Star Wars and more incoming in the next few years. There’s little motivation to build a new park when it’s going to cannibalize attendance at the others
  7. PrincessArlena'sDad

    PrincessArlena'sDad DIS Veteran

    Aug 5, 2009
    I doubt they will ever build a new park.

    With what they already have (theme parks, water parks, DS), there's already:

    more to see than can ever be seen, more to do than could ever be done

    in a single week (the maximum length of time for most family vacations).

    Building another park would not get enough people to extend their vacations (because they can't), hence ticket revenue would not increase by nearly enough to pay for the new park. And, yes, there would be in park purchases (including food), but a large percentage of that would be business taken from their other parks.
  8. PuppyJonathan

    PuppyJonathan DIS Veteran

    Aug 13, 2013
    Truth be told I would love a fifth park just to counteract universals third, but it’s not going to happen and not should it. I think a fifth park one day will be built, but not for another something like six generations, our grandkids bringing their grandkids, inevitable heat death of the universe sort of timeline. Right now I just don’t think it’s feasible for a whole bunch of parties. Overkill with the guests, maintenance for all 5, the current state of how the economy is, the current state of how Disney is approaching new attractions. Personally I don’t even think universals third gate being a smart idea because of the above but that’s from my observations
    Mousekethot, toonaspie and christyd2 like this.
  9. PulsarIII

    PulsarIII Mouseketeer

    Aug 8, 2003
    [QUOTE="Personally I don’t even think universals third gate being a smart idea because of the above but that’s from my observations[/QUOTE]

    UOR will need to have a 3rd and eventually a 4th “real” Theme Park complex if they plan to become a WDW level of a vacation destination resort. If that is not their plan, why buy back the old Lockheed Martin property sold off by the previous owner Vivendi? The current “3 Theme Park gates” setup has not become a full week vacation using their hotels for most visitors. Comcast has exhibited an interest in park growth to become a major player in the central Florida vacation market, and it is paying off with a larger share of that market. Maybe it’s just me; I don’t see UOR backing down but doubling down on their quest to take on “The Mouse”.
  10. Future_WorldPhonencian

    Future_WorldPhonencian Mouseketeer

    May 25, 2017
    This is only partially true... the hotels are only so profitable because of the parks. Disney is able to make gangbusters off these new hotels in the short term because the parks are already there and they are taking market share from the i drive hotels.

    If disney never spent money on the parks they couldnt fill hotel rooms...

    Im of the opinion that a 5th gate will only happen when all 4 parks are fully fleshed out and expanded... we arent there yet.

    MK is the closest of the 4 but tomorrowland and adventureland need some updates

    AK is the next closest but Dinoland needs attention, i suspect there is room for at least 1-2 more lands and a need for additional attractions especially in Pandora. I would also like to see another animal trail.

    DHS is next only because SWGE opens in less than a year. This park will still need work after it opens but will finally be a full day park again.The Launch Bay area will need a redo and eventually SWGE has space for 1-2 expansions. Star Tours will either be rethemed or removed. RnR coaster will need to be rethemed and that side of the park expanded. and fantasmic will need updates.

    And finally EPCOT: the over engineered and underbilt park that has cost disney more than they would like to admit. Futureworld: wonders of life empty, innoventions: empty imagination: should be empty and is half used

    the seas needs a refurb on the inside... spaceship earth needs a refurb to the end to include info abt smartphones not just pcs from the 80s... the legacy tombstones and the whole feel of futureworld could use some freshening up. World Showcase has between 5 and 10 vacant pads for country pavilions that either need rides for existing countries or new countries.

    All of this work is in addition to things disney is already doing which is pretty extensive right now.

    You could make the argument that disney springs is already a 5th gate... it just doesn’t require admission.
    tcufrog, Shughart, petedis6 and 3 others like this.
  11. DanBoris

    DanBoris DIS Veteran

    Aug 16, 2009
    There are definitly valid arguments on both sides of this question. Personally I think they may go for more "boutique" experiences, like the Star Wars hotel, and if these work out, that may be the future direction instead of doing a 5th park. I am also not sure what a fifth park could provide that couldn't be done in one of the existing 4 parks. Even if they stayed pure to the themes of the existing parks, pretty much any attraction would fit well in at least one of the park, and we all know that they are getting a little looser with where things fit. The biggest thing a new park gives you is a huge Marketing hook, but that will only last so long.

    I will be interested to see the next version of the RCID Master Plan. The plan was updated in 2010 and spells out the maximums that the plan allows for, and one of these was an addition major park. It will be interesting to see if this remains when the plan is updated in 2020.
    marcyleecorgan, dlavender and rteetz like this.
  12. The Pho

    The Pho A heck of a paleontologist if I do say so myself

    May 9, 2018
    I argued for many years that Disney Quest should have been treated as the fifth gate. Also that they're building a fifth gate right now, just on top of the third gate. And after that Epcot needs serious reworking.

    Ultimately there is basically zero chance of another park in Florida until Iger is gone, it's just not a focus for him. Beyond that it's tough to tell, because it's dependent on who is running the place and making the decisions. Whether World gets a fifth or Land gets a third depends on many many factors and currently it just doesn't seem in the cards.
    tcufrog likes this.
  13. mom2rtk

    mom2rtk Invented the term "Characterpalooza"

    Aug 23, 2008
    Disney doesn't want to staff the parks it has now. If they weren't up for it with Star Wars, then it's not happening. At least not in my lifetime.
    tcufrog and marcyleecorgan like this.
  14. Lurkerin

    Lurkerin Mouseketeer

    Nov 2, 2016
    I think it is about economics. Disney has created a brand that people have to plan a year in advance to participate in. Disney can continue to increase prices because of that demand and do not see a large drop in customers, while still increasing profit. But at the same time pricing out some families.

    If they created a new gate it would change the equation and potentially allow more people to participate. larger supply if priced right. While new generation on the hook.

    Personally I don’t believe it will happen in the next 20 years. But it still would make sense.
    marcyleecorgan likes this.
  15. Dfan79

    Dfan79 DIS Veteran

    Feb 6, 2011
    Nope, money grubbing Disney doesn't care about its park goers. They just want to expand the parks and resorts and make money. It would cost too much to create a whole new park. It is much, much cheaper to just do expansions and sit in their mansions.

    They don't care if everyone thinks that the parks are overcrowded. All that matters to them is that Scrooge Mcduck is adding money to his bank vault.
    tcufrog and L&Lfan like this.
  16. LibertyTree

    LibertyTree Earning My Ears

    Aug 24, 2013
    I think they considered building a Star Wars themed park, but decided to test what demand is first with Galaxy's Edge. And to see how popular the new movies were. (Uh-oh)

    That is why they went with the Galaxy's Edge concept. Hollywood Studios just has an outpost. The rest of the Star Wars universe would have its own park. Of course you would have to have a park hopper to experience both, just like with Harry Potter.

    A Star Wars land would also pull in a demographic that might not have been interested in visiting the other parks in the first place. So it wouldn't completely cannibalize attendance and would require more hotels. It would also compete more directly for the guests that Universal attracts.
  17. saskdw

    saskdw DIS Veteran

    Feb 7, 2011
    I see someone has started our yearly 5 gate thread that always ends up with the OP getting shot down. :duck:
    tcufrog, Shughart and Sparkly like this.
  18. umichigan10

    umichigan10 DIS Veteran

    Jan 6, 2011
    I doubt they’d build a Star Wars exclusive park. As popular as it is, they wouldn’t want to alienate an entire chunk of their base who isn’t interested in the films and therefore wouldn’t care that much about a devoted park.

    Now a future expansion in MK or even Epcot of Star Wars presence down the road? I can definitely see that happening
  19. HydroGuy

    HydroGuy A Pirate's Life For Me

    Jun 5, 2005
    After Iger came on in 2006, Iger had bigger issues at the parks outside Florida. So WDW was neglected in many ways. With the IP acquisitions (Pixar/Star Wars/Marvel) and the fixes that have happened to some past mistakes at other non-WDW resorts, Disney has clearly turned significant attention back to WDW in the last few years - and going forward.

    Until Disney gets all of the current improvements/expansions completed, then I cannot imagine they will be thinking 5th gate at WDW. If they want to build another park, the two places that I think Disney would choose first are Shanghai DL (with only one park now, which is doing really well) and then Disneyland Resort California (they have property for a 3rd gate and that gets a lot of discussion). DLR is really bursting at the seams as far as park capacity and Star Wars Galaxy's Edge will only make things worse for crowding.

    I suspect a 5th gate at WDW is way down on the list of priorities for the Disney decision makers.

  20. GADisneyDad14

    GADisneyDad14 TPAS Moderator Moderator

    Jul 3, 2014
    I guess I don't see that much "resort construction" going on from my perspective. Gran Destino at 545 rooms (arguably a more convention oriented resort)... Reflections at 900 rooms (partial DVC)... Disney Riviera at 300 rooms (all DVC)....

    Sure there's the new S/D hotel (not a Disney resort) and Star Wars resort... but those are boutique concepts with a niche clientele and small room counts.

    1,800 ish rooms on top of an inventory of, what, 35k+? That's relatively small....and a lot of those rooms are DVC...a near-instant return of and on capital for Disney, so they have different motivations there. Since Disney is running low on resort rooms that make for good conversion options, I'm not all that surprised with new construction like Riviera and Reflections. I tend to view DVC construction/conversion and theme parks as different worlds / business models within the Disney ecosystem, generally speaking.
    redrosesix and marcyleecorgan like this.
  21. rteetz

    rteetz Rumors and News Moderator Moderator

    Feb 20, 2013
    That is quite a bit at once. The last time Disney did this much resort expansion was during the Disney decade when they built the Epcot area resorts and added the value category.

    Disney is looking at even more resort expansion in the future. You also have offsite resorts being built near property such as a new Marriott and the Flamingo Crossings areas.

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