5th Park inevitable ?

[Lightsoutx12]

I think one day it will happen. Probably not for quite sometime though, Disney seems to have a lot of projects on hand and probably even some we don't know about.

 

[DanBoris]

I guess I don't see that much "resort construction" going on from my perspective. Gran Destino at 545 rooms (arguably a more convention oriented resort)... Reflections at 900 rooms (partial DVC)... Disney Riviera at 300 rooms (all DVC)....

Sure there's the new S/D hotel (not a Disney resort) and Star Wars resort... but those are boutique concepts with a niche clientele and small room counts.

1,800 ish rooms on top of an inventory of, what, 35k+? That's relatively small....and a lot of those rooms are DVC...a near-instant return of and on capital for Disney, so they have different motivations there. Since Disney is running low on resort rooms that make for good conversion options, I'm not all that surprised with new construction like Riviera and Reflections. I tend to view DVC construction/conversion and theme parks as different worlds / business models within the Disney ecosystem, generally speaking.

Also, Grand Destino and Riviera are both replacing some existing rooms, so even though it's a net gain in rooms, it's not as much as if these were greenfield hotel projects. I think the bigger increase is from the third party hotels. Couple new hotels coming to Flamingo Crossing, the new tower at the Hilton, and I believe there are some other projects I can't think of at the moment.

 

[GADisneyDad14]

That is quite a bit at once. The last time Disney did this much resort expansion was during the Disney decade when they built the Epcot area resorts and added the value category.

I agree. My main point relative to the OP's post was more that two resorts in 2019 and one in 2022 with 1,800 total rooms (a chunk of which will be DVC) just doesn't seem like 1) some mega supply of new potential guests sufficient enough to justify new parks, or 2) create a source of new room inventory that Disney will have trouble filling and/or selling given existing theme park offerings, SWGE coming, and the overall popularity of the DVC product.

Not really related to OP's post, but I'm personally ready for new supply. With such high room occupancy and no material new physical room inventory added since 2013 (GFV) and 2012 (AoA), it's about time they deliver new product.

And true, I'm not factoring in off-site in the above discussion.

 

[ajb_tic_tac]

I seriously hope not. My hope is Disney sort out the parks they already have. Currently each park has one or two attractions people desperately want to do with the rest being filler.

 

[gharter]

i doubt in the near future.
Currently they are finishing SWGE, Micky and Minnie ride in HS. Still the question of something different going into the old animation courtyard and a replacement for Indiana Jones.
MK - Tron coming
EPCOT- massive over hall coming beside the 2 rides currently under construction.
AK - Still rumors of rehab of Dinoland area. Possible expansion of Pandora. Rehab or complete redo of Rafikis Planet Watch.

Too much other construction going on now to be working on a 5th park. I hope at some time they do, but the question also remains as to what it would be. Marvel makes sense, but they can't with current contract iwth Universal for characters. Doubt anything before 2025 to start at the earliest.

 

[WiredForFlight]

I really doubt there will be a 5th park. There is a good bit of room for expansion at each park as it is. Other than a few times a year they are not near or at maximum capacity (not that you would want 100% every day, that would be a bad guest experience). AK and HS could easily expand their foot print and there is still space inside each for added attractions (3rd Avatar ride for example) that had been planed/shelved in the past. Epcot has so much space with abandoned attractions and partially used building space that could be tapped before needing to expand foot print.

I would see Disney adding a new park else where in Asia before anywhere in the US.

 

[Shera-Kasuni Brown]

This is only partially true... the hotels are only so profitable because of the parks. Disney is able to make gangbusters off these new hotels in the short term because the parks are already there and they are taking market share from the i drive hotels.

If disney never spent money on the parks they couldnt fill hotel rooms...

Im of the opinion that a 5th gate will only happen when all 4 parks are fully fleshed out and expanded... we arent there yet.

MK is the closest of the 4 but tomorrowland and adventureland need some updates

AK is the next closest but Dinoland needs attention, i suspect there is room for at least 1-2 more lands and a need for additional attractions especially in Pandora. I would also like to see another animal trail.

DHS is next only because SWGE opens in less than a year. This park will still need work after it opens but will finally be a full day park again.The Launch Bay area will need a redo and eventually SWGE has space for 1-2 expansions. Star Tours will either be rethemed or removed. RnR coaster will need to be rethemed and that side of the park expanded. and fantasmic will need updates.

And finally EPCOT: the over engineered and underbilt park that has cost disney more than they would like to admit. Futureworld: wonders of life empty, innoventions: empty imagination: should be empty and is half used

the seas needs a refurb on the inside... spaceship earth needs a refurb to the end to include info abt smartphones not just pcs from the 80s... the legacy tombstones and the whole feel of futureworld could use some freshening up. World Showcase has between 5 and 10 vacant pads for country pavilions that either need rides for existing countries or new countries.

All of this work is in addition to things disney is already doing which is pretty extensive right now.

You could make the argument that disney springs is already a 5th gate... it just doesn’t require admission.

I absolutely agree! Epcot needs serious updating to all the attractions you mentioned. A lot of the rides seem so dated and historic rather than futuristic. MK needs updates to Adventureland and Tomorrowland but they first need to make the actual ride cars for the Mountain rides larger. There is absolutely no space and I'm only 5'2". I love AK and the ride Dinosaur but they could definitely flesh out this area more. I also this HS could get rid of Muppet Theater, Indiana Jones, and yes retheme RnR Coaster. Star Tours should be moved to be in new Star Wars area.

 

[rteetz]

I absolutely agree! Epcot needs serious updating to all the attractions you mentioned. A lot of the rides seem so dated and historic rather than futuristic. MK needs updates to Adventureland and Tomorrowland but they first need to make the actual ride cars for the Mountain rides larger. There is absolutely no space and I'm only 5'2". I love AK and the ride Dinosaur but they could definitely flesh out this area more. I also this HS could get rid of Muppet Theater, Indiana Jones, and yes retheme RnR Coaster. Star Tours should be moved to be in new Star Wars area.

Adventureland really doesn’t need much. Tomorrowland is getting updates.

Star tours isn’t going to be moved it will stay until it’s rethemed to a new IP.

 

[OhioStateBuckeye]

I still think there's a big enough market in the US to build a third park outside of DL or WDW. But I suppose that's another thread.

 

[AdamEfimoff]

Please no, please just add more rides and maintain the existing park, cheers

 

[jarestel]

If and when Disney sells off all of the extra land at WDW for short term profits, that will be the time to proclaim there will never be a 5th gate and have a good chance of being correct. Until then, I would never say never.

 

[Dfan79]

If and when Disney sells off all of the extra land at WDW for short term profits, that will be the time to proclaim there will never be a 5th gate and have a good chance of being correct. Until then, I would never say never.

Yep, they'll never do that. Even the land they don't use is becoming vastly more profitable by the day. I'm still holding out hope for a 5th park, but we probably won't see one for at least another 20 years.

 

[rteetz]

If and when Disney sells off all of the extra land at WDW for short term profits, that will be the time to proclaim there will never be a 5th gate and have a good chance of being correct. Until then, I would never say never.

Some land is specifically set as not suitable for building and nature preserves.

 

[umichigan10]

Some land is specifically set as not suitable for building and nature preserves.

And I believe a percentage of their land (I wanna say it’s a third, could be more or less) has to be kept in its natural state

 

[rteetz]

And I believe a percentage of their land (I wanna say it’s a third, could be more or less) has to be kept in its natural state

Correct there is a certain percentage but I don’t remember what it is.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I seriously hope not. My hope is Disney sort out the parks they already have. Currently each park has one or two attractions people desperately want to do with the rest being filler.

I do agree that the existing parks needed work - though I think they will largely be there by the end of the currently planned construction:

MK - already has a lot of attractions so not really issue there but Tron will be a Must Do when it opens in addition
EPCOT- will have Rat and Guardians on top of Soarin and Test Track and Frozen
DHS - will havbe 2 “must dos” in Galaxy’s Edge and Mickey and Minnie’s ride, plus still ToT and slightly lower RnRC and Slinky Dog and TSM
AK - has FoP and Everest and the Safari. Could argue at least one bore “must do” needed here (and I think AK will be revisited once EPCOT done) but the park as a whole with the animals is also a draw (just a different type of park)

So it think probably need to re-evaluate when all this is done and see where things stand and how crowds are, etc

Personally while a 5th Gate might help some, MK will still be biggest draw so I think building a whole new resort in the middle of the country would help more than a 5th Gate in WDW

 

[TheMaxRebo]

And I believe a percentage of their land (I wanna say it’s a third, could be more or less) has to be kept in its natural state

Yeah, though currently they are only at about 25% usage and no way is it more than 50% that they can’t build on. So while that is a factor it isn’t the main thing preventing a 5th Gate

 

[AurumPunzel]

Hasn't that already been floated a few times and dismissed? Because I think WDW already has enough parks, and instead, they should focus on enhancing and expanding what they have at the moment. Plus, haven't they already got their plate full with expanding DLP's second park with the potential to add a 3rd park, which could possibly be either a water park, a European AK or even a 'Euro-Epcot/EuroCot'?

 

[umichigan10]

Hasn't that already been floated a few times and dismissed? Because I think WDW already has enough parks, and instead, they should focus on enhancing and expanding what they have at the moment. Plus, haven't they already got their plate full with expanding DLP's second park with the potential to add a 3rd park, which could possibly be either a water park, a European AK or even a 'Euro-Epcot/EuroCot'?

Euro Disney is getting a big revamp of the studios park which they need desperately. I’ve never heard of them getting a third park, but if they get their act together and some stability I could see it happening way down the road.

 

[umichigan10]

Yeah, though currently they are only at about 25% usage and no way is it more than 50% that they can’t build on. So while that is a factor it isn’t the main thing preventing a 5th Gate

That blows my mind they’ve only used a quarter of that land. I don’t think satellite pictures even do justice what they have to work with