5th park at WDW?

[anthony2k7]

2018 is too soon.

FLE is scheduled to go on until 2013 isnt it?

After that I expect AK to get some major attention - which may last another 2-3 years. Then they might consider another park. There is no point building a new park when their existing parks have potential to squeeze more $$ out of guests each day.

Plus, there is DTD and the mess they've turned that into - they near enough need to knock PI and west side down and start again.

2020 is the earliest I can see another park opening, and even then I doubt it.

 

[tjkraz]

Some in the Disney fan base seem to be quite conservative when it comes to Disney park expansion.

I wouldn't call it conservative...I'd call it realistic.

However, Disney knows their numbers. They know that the economy is set to improve in 2011. They also know that without a major new theme park that attendance will remain flat or only increase slightly

Disney's attendance has always done well when the economy does well. This is non-essential leisure spending. Of course they do better when folks have money to burn.

But it's more complicated than that. The more relevant figures are average guest spending. Disney has done an admirable job of maintaining its attendance through the recent financial woes. In fact 2009 attendance was actually UP from 2008 (which is when the bottom fell out of the stock market and the auto industry went bankrupt.)

Attendance has been just great.

The important figure is guest spending which has decreased due to lower spending on non essentials (souvenirs) and the need for Disney to discount room rates in order to fill them.

Guest spending is the holy grail of the theme park industry. Disney would HAPPILY take 10,000 guests per day spending $1000 each rather than 100,000 guests spending $100 each.

A fifth theme park would add tremendous overhead to the equation. It isn't justifiable.

I won't argue the pros and cons of the subject - just know that there will be a major fifth park open at WDW no later than 2018.

Doubt it but you're welcome to come back and say "I told 'ya so" if you're right. If anything, I could see them entering the boutique park market similar to Discovery Cove. But that won't be a traditional "major" park with rides, restaurants and shops. It will be a limited admission destination with unique experiences and high prices.

Count our family as one that would stay longer and visit more frequently if there were more options on Disney property.

(snip)

Likewise, I have friends who live in Florida, and I am 100% certain that they would visit more often if there were more attractions.

Nothing wrong with more attractions. In fact that's exactly my point. Disney doesn't want or need a fifth gate to support--they need to expand the existing parks.

The Magic Kingdom has about 29 attractions with yearly attendance of 17 million.

Hollywood studios has 15 attractions (14 if we omit Sounds Dangerous) and 10 million guests.

Animal Kingdom has 12 attractions and 10 million guests.

See the correlation? And note that it's taken over 20 years for DHS to reach 15 attractions--it opened with just 2. It took DAK 12 years go build up to 12 attractions.

Guests shouldn't want to be bused to ANOTHER corner of WDW property to wait on line for ANOTHER half-day experience. The easiest way to increase attendance AND profitability is to expand the current parks.

Disney went 11 years between MK and Epcot...7 years between Epcot and DHS...9 years between DHS and DAK. Now it's been 12+ years with no additional park added and nothing in sight. There's a reason for that--many reasons, actually.

Not gonna happen. Plenty of room for expansion in the current parks. If Disney wants to grow its theme park revenues, Disneyland Resort, Disneyland Paris and HK Disneyland are all much better candidates for a new park.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

As I've always said, a full 5th gate will never happen. I think any 5th gate WILL BE a boutique park and they don't have a handle on that yet, note the current Disney leadership isn't very insightful, imaginative nor are they risk takers and trust me, there aren't many like rutgers1 who would spend more time at WDW than is already necessary to do everything. They've hit the saturation point.

The most important, interesting and relevant rumor, the one about Jobs buying Disney, was pretty much glossed over here on the DIS.

Let's face it, Disney will be sold off piecemeal very soon. Eisner and Iger already did the homework on this and it's almost happened a couple of times. It's simply a matter of time - maybe when those pesky quarter numbers keep getting harder and harder to reach but most likely just before MBABob is looking at leaving and will want to fatten his final payday.

WDW looks pretty much what it will always look like right now. The prospects for real improvement left when they made the decisions (like) not to expand the monorail, to bail on the Signature dining program and build half day parks. Decisions made bourn of dollars and cents and not quality and foresight.

A 5th full gate if they built it would certainly be worse than MGM, which as Larry David would say is "pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty bad." They just have no incentive.

 

[nytimez]

Some in the Disney fan base seem to be quite conservative when it comes to Disney park expansion. However, Disney knows their numbers. They know that the economy is set to improve in 2011. They also know that without a major new theme park that attendance will remain flat or only increase slightly. I won't argue the pros and cons of the subject - just know that there will be a major fifth park open at WDW no later than 2018.

This team doesn't even have a consistent vision for Fantasyland -- what makes you think they can actually put together an entire new park?

 

[Jaaron2]

IMHO I think expanding Animal Kingdonm (which is our favorite park) and or DHS would do the trick. We will be going to the world in 19 days and the first park we will visit (10 of us, 4 which have never bee to WDW) will be Animal Kingdom (by request of the 4 who have never been there). We love the theming and attractions. The problem with AK is it is a 3/4 day park. It needs some more attractions to add to the big ones they currently have. (It already has the theming)

Same as DHS. Add a few more major attractions to go with the big three (Rock-n- Roller Coaster, Tower of Terror and Buzz Lightyear) and you could expand it to an all day park.

 

[swarlock]

No, they bought Marvel, not DC

And if this hasn't been brought up Universal has standing rights to Marvel stuff over there so I don't see that happening anytime in the future.

 

[fannatic]

Universal does or did have a Marvel contract, but I'm sure that Disney is either in the process of or have already bought it out. - Here's sort of a new rumor which is Just a vague rumor. - Someone on another sight said that someone in Operations has said that a new thrill park called Night Kingdom is on the way. He said that Marvel characters may be involved in it. This made me think - What If - they kept the Night Kingdom name that was suppose to be the premium park, but instead are using it for a thrill park. I mean what if they had a park geared toward older kids, teens, and adults that opened in the afternoon and stayed open later into the evening. This way they could have employees at the other parks work a double shift at the new park. They've basically done away with the night entertainment at Pleasure Island. This idea might be the answer for guests who might wander off park grounds after dark.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Universal does or did have a Marvel contract, but I'm sure that Disney is either in the process of or have already bought it out. - Here's sort of a new rumor which is Just a vague rumor. - Someone on another sight said that someone in Operations has said that a new thrill park called Night Kingdom is on the way. He said that Marvel characters may be involved in it. This made me think - What If - they kept the Night Kingdom name that was suppose to be the premium park, but instead are using it for a thrill park. I mean what if they had a park geared toward older kids, teens, and adults that opened in the afternoon and stayed open later into the evening. This way they could have employees at the other parks work a double shift at the new park. They've basically done away with the night entertainment at Pleasure Island. This idea might be the answer for guests who might wander off park grounds after dark.

Night Kingdom is an old, old, old rumor. It was dismissed on many fronts, but most of all, the Orlando market is saturated. There is absolutely NO INCENTIVE for Disney to build further. This could be good in the long run though, because as you've said, they need to stimulate the fans into returning in greater numbers and expansion and upgrades to the existing parks WILL do that.

 

[2Cents]

I hear everyone talking about half day parks, length of vacation stays, revenue being spread too thin within WDW; but I think the point is being missed here. The purpose of a 5th theme park would be to draw people who don't already come. It's about bringing NEW revenue into the park. Talk to any family with teenagers who are trying to plan their next family outing and you will hear over and over again that their teenagers simply think that WDW is for little kids. A thrill/villain based theme park would assist in drawing a demographic that we are not currently reaching. It's not about how long families take vacations or where they spend their time/money while they are on WDW property. It is about drawing people that don't already come to WDW. And yes, Disney is planning a 5th theme park, but the planning stages take years to develop. Even decades. We can't simply put a shovel in the ground and make it up as we go. It requires environmental studies, permits, design, etc., etc. It would be great if we could simply say, "We will open a new theme park in 2018." However, with all the variables that inevitably arise and changes that constantly happen, we are simply unable to do this.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I'm not missing the point, it's just been discussed for years. Disney has proven they do not care about the so-called Universal teen age market. They do not build coasters that are not family friendly and proved with the dismantling of PI that they are not interested in adult activity - The two most obvious and easy steps that could have been taken if they cared about these markets.

For Disney to build a new park to specifically bring new guests to WDW only works against filling the existing parks, which they don't want or can't afford to do. If they built a replica of Disney Sea's in Orlando it, of course, would be HUGE! People would flock to see it, plan trips around it, undoubtedly. BUT, the other parks would simply become time fillers for the one really great venue which wouldn't be a profitable or workable situation.

Disney is stuck where they are. The guests time on property is limited. The profit potential for each park needs to be in line (relatively) with each other. A fifth park would have to fit that mold, meaning another 1/2 day park. It would be hard for this to be good enough to hold it's own and as I said can't be too grand to outshine the existing parks.

I repeat, a fifth park, if it ever comes will be a boutique park. Something vastly different and vastly more expensive to the consumer.

 

[Oglet]

Until Epcot, Animal Kingdom, Magic Kingdom and Studios are all at capacity on a regular basis I don't see the need to build another park, It's not like there isn't always a place to go.

If you haven't been able to lure people down here with what is already here then your never going to.

This is right up there with the Fast Pass, Aerosmith is leaving and the endless debates on free dining.

 

[KaraD]

i am new to the baords but when I was at Disney last year I met a worker who mentioned a Cars themed area or idd that turn out to be at Disneyland?

 

[chartle]

i am new to the baords but when I was at Disney last year I met a worker who mentioned a Cars themed area or idd that turn out to be at Disneyland?

Disneyland

 

[dizfan]

Perhaps all the resource talk is more related to the overall expansion going on at WDW.

Animation Studios being built at what was originally to be the remainder of Pop Century.
FL expansion at MK.
DHS receiving updated Star Tours as well as rumors of other changes.
Rumors of DVC at River Country.
Hyperion Wharf at DtD.
Epcot Imagination rumors circulate.

According to the Disney Blog, AK Australia rumored to have received the go ahead now that the economy is improving. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2605730

After years of Disney ignoring WDW and spending resources at DL, it appears they may be shifting their focus. Better to improve the existing parks than to spend the resources on a fifth park.

 

[wendydelmo]

Wondering whatthey woudl like of adding? ld

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Perhaps all the resource talk is more related to the overall expansion going on at WDW.

Animation Studios being built at what was originally to be the remainder of Pop Century.
FL expansion at MK.
DHS receiving updated Star Tours as well as rumors of other changes.
Rumors of DVC at River Country.
Hyperion Wharf at DtD.
Epcot Imagination rumors circulate.

According to the Disney Blog, AK Australia rumored to have received the go ahead now that the economy is improving. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2605730

After years of Disney ignoring WDW and spending resources at DL, it appears they may be shifting their focus. Better to improve the existing parks than to spend the resources on a fifth park.

I don't know about you but none of this gives me the warm and fuzzies about quality intentions.

 

[fannatic]

On another site a long-time poster claimed that the 5th park may be called World of Marvel. Another poster said that they heard that Disney was buying back the rights of Marvel characters from Universal. I can't verify this rumor in anyway. It may just be someone having fun, but it does sound as logical as any of the other guesses.

 

[CapnZach]

the rights of Marvel for theme parks are expiring. Shanghai Disney will supposedly have a Marvel themed land as a test. If successful, I think it is the next logical step, but I don't see it happening for a quite some time.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

the rights of Marvel for theme parks are expiring.

Are you claiming that Universal's contract with Marvel to use Marvel characters at IOA is expiring? What is the basis of that statement? Please provide a link to a credible source.

Marvel is now owned by Disney, but that in no way invalidates contracts that Marvel entered into before being acquired by Disney.

Shanghai Disney will supposedly have a Marvel themed land as a test. If successful, I think it is the next logical step, but I don't see it happening for a quite some time.

Credible reports have said that Universal has exclusive theme park rights to use Marvel characters within the United States east of the Mississippi, for the characters that they're currently using, for as long as Universal lives up to their end of the contract.

If that's the case, and if Marvel doesn't have active theme park rights contracts with theme parks in other geographies (that we don't know about), then Disney could use Marvel characters like Spiderman at any of their current and future theme parks worldwide, EXCEPT at WDW (or any other park that Disney builds east of the Mississippi).

 

[Metro West]

Credible reports have said that Universal has exclusive theme park rights to use Marvel characters within the United States east of the Mississippi, for the characters that they're currently using, for as long as Universal lives up to their end of the contract.

If that's the case, and if Marvel doesn't have active theme park rights contracts with theme parks in other geographies (that we don't know about), then Disney could use Marvel characters like Spiderman at any of their current and future theme parks worldwide, EXCEPT at WDW (or any other park that Disney builds east of the Mississippi).

I think all of this renewed Marvel speculation is sprouting from a post on Screamscape the other day. Here is the link:

http://www.screamscape.com/html/islands_of_adventure.htm

I don't think Universal will do anything for a while but eventually Marvel Island will be rethemed. Into what I have no idea.