5 in a 1-B/R: A poll, NOT a debate

[Chuck S]

Ripleysmom:

True, that many units are under occupied..but my point was that the resort (OKW)would have to retrofitted for the safety and service of the POTENTIAL number of allowed guests. The other resorts may be able to handle overflow better because they are 'attached' to an existing resort. OKW is a free-standing fully sold DVC resort. If limits were increased and IF all the units were one over the current limits, the facility would have to be modified...at the expense of owners.

 

[vernon]

I voted for #4, I can't see any time that personally I'd use that option now, but IMHO the units are big enough to accommodate an extra person and I really feel for families with 3 kids who , IMHO, get a pretty rough ride on accommodation. I do think that the cost should be AT LEAST enough to cover the cost and a little bit extra and that it should be limited so that at least 2 of the 5 are children under 15. I'm certain that the resort has a little "capacity room " so it doesn't infringe any county/state rules on occupancy but it may be sensible to limit the number of rooms at anyone time that can be occupied by 5 people. Say for example, on a first come first served basis, only a maximum of 25 of the one bedrooms are allowed an extra guest. I don't think an extra 25-30 people in the resort is going to put a strain on the resources of the resort.

Pam does raise a point though (even somewhat tongue in cheek) that if a studio is OK for 4 people and a onebed is OK for 5, then logic says why isn't a 2 bedroom OK for 9 people?. If people were adult about the situation , then I think it could work, unfortunately my trust in some of my fellow man is such that leads me to believe there would always be people trying to sneak an extra in without paying , justifying that by bringing their own airbed they don't have to pay. ( Those people will do that anyway IMHO) It's a reasonable enough idea but IMHO it would be a nightmare to police efficiently.

 

[John.Disney]

because I think the way Disney manages it now is okay. They could do a better job of policing those who <i>sneak</i> extra people in (if it is as rampant as I am led to believe by reading these boards), and also do a better job of explaining (to members and prospective members) what exactly the legal rights of the members and Disney are. I think adding a fee for over 4/4/8/12 (in a studio/1br/2br/gv) occupants in a room is perfectly reasonable as well. But option 4 in the poll in no good (IMO) because 5 shouldn't be "automatic", it should be at Disney's discretion (they need the flexibility to keep overall resort capacity under control).

If too many people begin requesting more than 4/4/8/12, Disney can respond by cracking down on guests who sneak in extra occupants (I believe in many cases they 'know where they are', furthermore, once word gets out that people are getting 'bumped' for unannounced geusts, the violations would decrease precipitously). If capacity is still a problem they can begin denying requests for more than 5/5/9/13. They can then begin denying 5 in a studio, 5 in a 1br, 9 in a 2br, and 13 in a gv, in that order.

I believe this is pretty much how they do things now, with an overall ideal resort capacity limit in mind. Unfortunately, the interests of Disney ($$$) and members (comfort) are not parallel in this case. But Disney knows what the resorts were built to handle and they are the only ones with enough information to determine what will and what will not create a strain on amenities or excessive wear and tear.

Disney will never <b>guaranty</b> members 5 in a 1br IMO, because they have zero incentive to do so. They already have the legal right to allow 5 in a 1br on a case by case basis at their own discretion. Why would they ever give up that flexibility?

John

 

[mistermouse]

under current circumstances, the 1 BR villas are not designed for more than 4 and adjacent rooms would be subject to more disruption from the overcrowded units.

But the idea of some 1 BR units being refitted for a daybed and fifth guest may be a good one. These units could be in specific locations and primarily available by request. The added expense could be recouped by a $20/day charge. Guests staying in this section (the end of a wing, or a specific building, or only on the ground floor!) would be aware of the designation.

Roll-Aways are not realistically an option....too many logistics issues.

Until then 4/4/8/12 is the product purchased and expected.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Poll is a nice idea over the usual debate threads. Good point nothing is resolved.

I see that a large majority are OK with 5.

Perhaps that will deter future pointless debates.

 

[firemankenpfd]

It may sound stupid now but think of the fire hazard with all the extra people in the resort if everyone brought an extra person. The resort is made to have a limited capacity. It would make evacuation very difficult...

Sorry its my job to think that way...

Fireman Ken

 

[Chuck S]

Just a few figures....

Since 5 in a 1 bdrm puts that room at 20% over the 'Sleeps" rating capacity, I took what it would cost in points for 1 week in a 1 bdrm, and figured what 20% would be. Now, since point allotments don't change, the difference would need to be in cash. Figuring 20% of points needed for a 1 Bdrm for 1 week and multiplying that by $10 per point (the normal 'rental value') and dividing that by 7 days in the week, it works out to a charge of between $45 and $84 PER DAY depending on the season. This is based on OKW points, other resorts would be HIGHER. I was shocked.

 

[pat-rick]

The results of the poll seems to favor allowing 5 in a one-bedroom. This would favor the family with 3 children or a tag along grandparent etc. for no or little additional cost without going to a two bedroom. It would seem better to pay cash for the additional service only if needed. An air mattress for the kids ( which I have read here many times ) to sleep on and paper / plastic ware for any meals should not be a problem and not change that supplied by DCV thus not causing any additional cost.

Of course, everyone needs to use good judgement for everyones benefit. The ones that are stretching the rules now will most likely stretch the rules in the future.

 

[auntsue]

I like the idea of having a fifth place to sleep. Like Ripleysmom, we would like to have the option of taking our niece and nephew. They are way too old to sleep in the same bed (14 &16), and it is ridiculous to have to go for a 2BR for them to each have their own bed. I'm sure there are many other families in the same situation, and as the kids get older it will be a problem.When we have taken them down the shore, the condo we rented had 1 Queen bed in the BR, and in the living room it has a pullout sofa and a chair, similar in size to those in a 1BR living room, that opens up into a single bed. It is perfect. I'd like to see something like that. We have no children of our own, but my two sisters each have three and it is just not financially doable for them to have to get a 2BR when the deluxes allow 5 in one smaller room. I do not like the idea of a rollaway bed because they are very bulky and I'd prefer to not see them being rolled in and out of rooms all day long. Maybe when they get ready to refurbish, they can consider getting the kind of chair that converts to a single bed.

 

[GCM13]

I voted for allowing 5 in a 1 bedroom, but not supplying towels, etc. I also agree with the person who said there should be an age limit to the fifth person (like age 10). We are a family of 5 and our youngest just turned 3 a couple months ago. We don't need all the room in a 2 bedroom. At OKW, there is plenty of room for the kids to sleep without them having to sleep with us (2 in the sofa bed and 1 on the loveseat). I didn't vote for having an extra charge for a rollaway bed, extra towels, etc. because we wouldn't really need the rollaway and I don't mind bringing along a couple extra towels if needed. We had five in a 1 bedroom at all three WDW DVC resorts and there were enough dishes for all of us. One last opinion, since member services is allowing 5 in a 1 bedroom, they should just make it official and stop the debate!

 

[Eeyore2U]

Chuck,

Do your figures factor in the wear and tear on the common areas that will be affected? What others items should be factored into the equation? More staff? More elevator trips? More lifeguards? Increasing occupancy by 20% will have an impact on dues regardless of if there is a fee to do it.

 

[BIERMUGG]

I voted for leave it as is. If Four in a One bedrom is enforced
Then for people with Five in a group they would need a two bedroom unit which is a one bedroom and a studio. Wouldn't this cause a shortage of studios for the people where a one bedroom is too big or too many points ?

5 Adults in a one bedroom should not be allowed at anytime but
DVC does allow for kids.

 

[John.Disney]

GCM13,

<i>One last opinion, since member services is allowing 5 in a 1 bedroom, they should just make it official and stop the debate!</i>

Because when you put "5" in writing, everyone starts asking about "6". I think Disney has occupancy control right where they want it and they're not going to give up any of the flexibility they have built into the contracts by guarantying more than the minimum they can while still getting people to join.

John

 

[Snowgod]

How about allowing extra person in a one beedroom but not a studio? You get two rooms so it would be less of a problem. I also think there should be a charge for the extra person.

 

[Chuck S]

Eeyore2u,

Actually, I know my figures are a little low, but I was trying to give a ball park estimate. You see 1 is 20% of 5, but you are actually increasing capacity by 25%. 5/4 = 1.25

Now, if you take 10315 (the number of pts required for a 1 bdrm for 1 year)/by 365 = 28.26 points per day per 1 bdrm average x .25 = 7.065 x $10, that would be $70.65 average per day per guest.

Seasonal averages based on 25% in 2002 OKW pts:

$56.00/day - Adventure (55 weekdays + 20 weekend = 75 days)
$61.30/day - Choice (48 + 19 = 67)
$72.36/day - Dream (49 + 23 = 72)
$77.33/day - Magic (93 + 36 = 129)
$104.32/day - Premier (16 + 6 = 22)

That is based on what is currently in the rooms, not a rollaway or extra day bed and linens.

 

[Eeyore2U]

Thanks for doing the math. Again, my concern is for the not so obvious, fee increasing things that we don't see.

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by robinb
I don't think the roll-out idea is a good one . Since none of the other Diseney resorts have roll-outs, I assume it's a company-wide decision to not offer them. Offering them at the Disney resorts would require a whole new policy on how to handle roll-outs, linens for roll-outs, storage for roll-outs, etc.

I also don't like the "official blind eye" to families who exceed the number of beds.

Instead, I think maybe more daybeds can be put in some 1 bedrooms and more studios. I read on the resorts boards that the day beds in the deluxe resorts will comfortably fit an adult. BTW, does anyone have picture of the "studio plus" at BWV? I'd like to see the size of the existing day bed.

actually Disney resorts do have roll away beds, they just don't advertise the fact. They are the same size as a twin bed.

 

[ohiominnie]

I voted for #1...enforce the rules.

It's a slippery slope. If we make it alright to put 5 in a room meant for 4, then here on the DIS we'll all be debating about having 6 in that room. "It's just one more little body" Pretty soon no one will need a Grand Villa (except Richyams) because you'll be able to pack 12 in a 2-br!

I feel that we all bought into DVC with the understanding that the limits were 4/4/8. People signed CONTRACTS saying they understood those limits. If someone needs to take someone else (a grandparent, a nanny, a child's friend, etc) then they need to use their points appropriately. If that requires banking, or borrowing, then so be it. We all need to make sacrifices for something we want....if we really want to take little Jimmy's friend then maybe we can't go to Disney for 2 weeks a year. Maybe next year it will only be a week.

I also agree with the fire situation. You get too many people evactuaing at one time and you end up with a Who concert situation (or just about any European soccer event) Also, who is going to be the first to sue Disney because they couldn't get past the roll away that was blocking the only path to the exit?

IMHO it also sets a very bad example for the children who are caught in the middle. We tell them over and over to tell the truth, but then lie about things to make it easier/cheaper/more convenient for ourselves (not me, and not necessarily YOU...but you know "those people" exist) I've seen several times in lines for theme parks or what not the parent coaching a child "now, remember Rachael...you're SIX...got that??" "no daddy, I turned SEVEN last November" "no honey...you're SIX. SIX I tell you!!!....HHMMMM...<pause> Honey...take Rachael over there while I buy the tickets."

Slippery slope.

 

[Grateful11]

We have 4 in our family and our boys will be 12 and 13 on our next trip this summer. The last time it was the 4 of us, the foldout bed was just getting too small. So this year for their comfort we're going with a 2 Bdr. I'm an early riser 6-7am and this way I can get up and pretty much do what I like. It kind of puts us in a pinch though when we take my parents the boys end up back on the sofabed. I say make 5 a payable option but I don't think the extra body would be very comfortable or anyone on the sofabed for that matter.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

The numbers still speak for themselves, 5 is still in the majority in the poll.

Looks like most people understand that an extra child in a one bedroom isn't really going to cause all these extreme cases that are being touted.

Some families have three children and don't need the full two bedrooms.

I hope the comments don't continue to push the extreme examples in support of either side of this issue and cause this thread to be closed and moved to the debate board.

Let's just let the poll take its course and see where it ends up.

Otherwise, strong opinions can be posted under this topic on the debate board.

Place your vote, and lets see the results.