25 points direct from Disney??

[Dean]

I think the missed the boat at poly...they should have put in the multiple room types.

The resale will be a problem until they come up with a compelling reason to buy direct...that reason needs to be the resort not the perks. If they do anything to significantly lower resale it will give buyers pause as one of DVCs biggest positives vs other timeshares is the retained value, also if resales became a lot cheaper it would be harder for them to sell direct. Everyone has 24/7 access to the internet now so the usual timeshare sales tactics won't work with younger customers...so they really need compelling product first and foremost.

In the near term DVC is in a somewhat tough spot as they have no compelling reason for people to buy direct...Im sure that will change once they decide to build a new resort.

I certainly think they missed an opportunity with Poly. They could have done smaller 1 BR (super studios) even some type of lockoff. Given this situation and the original plans for the resort one has to wonder if they're going to do something else later. If so, I think they'd have been better off saying so even if they later abandoned the plans. They can also get far more active and aggressive in the sales process to generate sales if needed. However, I don't think they have much choice but to punish resale buyers to generate separation unless they create a new and somewhat separate system.

 

[cheermom95]

That's correct...a 25-point contact direct from Disney is an add-on contact...so you have to be a current DVC owner.

If you buy direct from Disney for the first time and you are not a current DVC member, the minimum of 100points is required ...right now either from Poly or Aulani.

actually I talked to a guide last week who told me that SSR and OKW I could buy a 25 point as cash only... I was told that I could purchase 50 points via ANY resort that is available or has an open waitlist there is no 100 point min for new members...

 

[northshoremama]

actually I talked to a guide last week who told me that SSR and OKW I could buy a 25 point as cash only... I was told that I could purchase 50 points via ANY resort that is available or has an open waitlist there is no 100 point min for new members...

Good to know! I guess I misunderstood.

 

[kenban]

actually I talked to a guide last week who told me that SSR and OKW I could buy a 25 point as cash only... I was told that I could purchase 50 points via ANY resort that is available or has an open waitlist there is no 100 point min for new members...

I have read it is up to the guide. Those are the absolute minimums which will be accepted by DVD. But guides have some amount of discretion and can increase the minimums and refuse to sell you only 25 points as a new member. But I do know it is accurate that 25 points can only be done as a cash transaction.

OKW and SSR are the cheapest on-site at WDW as well at only $140 a point so you can join for as little as $3500. I have been considering trying this the next time I am in Orlando then get the rest through resale. The small minimum contract feels like a good way to get my foot in the door as a full member and get the AP discount.

 

[JimMIA]

OKW and SSR are the cheapest on-site at WDW as well at only $140 a point so you can join for as little as $3500. I have been considering trying this the next time I am in Orlando then get the rest through resale. The small minimum contract feels like a good way to get my foot in the door as a full member and get the AP discount.

In addition to the three fallacies I cited on page 1 of this thread, you should know that the AP discount is only $106 per pass.

So to break even on a $3,500 expenditure for only 25 points, you'd need to purchase 33 DVC Annual Passes. If you renewed passes, it would take even more because the renewal savings is only $92 per AP.

 

[kenban]

In addition to the three fallacies I cited on page 1 of this thread, you should know that the AP discount is only $106 per pass.

So to break even on a $3,500 expenditure for only 25 points, you'd need to purchase 33 DVC Annual Passes. If you renewed passes, it would take even more because the renewal savings is only $92 per AP.

Only if you place no value on the points themselves. Assuming you would pay $80 a point for resale you are only looking at a difference of $1,500 for those 25 points. Which if you are buying multiple annual passes can easily be made up. Also the $106 annual pass saving assumes equal passes. But being a DVC member lets you buy the gold pass without being a Florida resident which the only difference is that it is blacked out about 2 weeks a year around Christmas and New Years which I have zero desire to ever be at the parks at that time. With the Gold Pass you are saving $213 on each annual pass versus the Standard cost of the Platinum pass which you would otherwise be required to purchase. It is possible to make up the $1500 in as little as 2 years if you buy 4 passes a year (which is the maximum allowed).

 

[malba2366]

In addition to the three fallacies I cited on page 1 of this thread, you should know that the AP discount is only $106 per pass.

So to break even on a $3,500 expenditure for only 25 points, you'd need to purchase 33 DVC Annual Passes. If you renewed passes, it would take even more because the renewal savings is only $92 per AP.

In addition to the inherent value of the points (ie. using them for rooms and resale value), the discount gained by being able to purchase Gold passes is greater than $106 especially if one times multiple trips to be within the one year window. The Gold passes are not otherwise available to non Florida residents. If the difference between resale and direct on the points is $60, and you buy 25 points the Platinum pass discount would benefit a family of 4 after 4 pass purchase. If that family of 4 can buy Gold passes the benefit would be seen after only 2 AP purchases.

 

[JimMIA]

Only if you place no value on the points themselves. Assuming you would pay $80 a point for resale you are only looking at a difference of $1,500 for those 25 points. Which if you are buying multiple annual passes can easily be made up. Also the $106 annual pass saving assumes equal passes. But being a DVC member lets you buy the gold pass without being a Florida resident which the only difference is that it is blacked out about 2 weeks a year around Christmas and New Years which I have zero desire to ever be at the parks at that time. With the Gold Pass you are saving $213 on each annual pass versus the Standard cost of the Platinum pass which you would otherwise be required to purchase. It is possible to make up the $1500 in as little as 2 years if you buy 4 passes a year (which is the maximum allowed).

Of course. I can take a limo to work, or ride my bike...or ride my daughter's bike, which is much less expensive than my bike.

If I want to construct an example to prove my point, I can prove just about anything. I could suggest suggest buying a Wyndham contract on eBay for $1, using that to exchange into DVC via RCI for another $300 (but still paying far less for the same villa than a DVC owner), and buying Florida resident APs -- or one of the other Florida passes that is even less expensive.

But the strategy of buying 25 points to get the AP discount has so many holes in it that it's hard to know where to start. First of all, there is a huge difference between buying a 25-point addon and buying 25 points alone. 25 points is not enough to do anything. So one who only owned 25 points and had to bank and borrow to visit every third year for a few days would never need an annual pass.

But the big holes are the assumptions I mentioned on page 1 of this thread:

• The assumption that the discounts will remain the same, and will last forever -- when we all know that perks come and go
• The assumption that a minimal number of direct points will be sufficient to get the discounts forever, which I think is extremely unlikely. I think they are setting the stage for a tiered system which rewards those who own or purchase larger than minimum direct contracts. Without that, there is no benefit to the silliness they just went through.

 

[JimMIA]

In addition to the inherent value of the points (ie. using them for rooms and resale value), the discount gained by being able to purchase Gold passes is greater than $106 especially if one times multiple trips to be within the one year window.

Well, I think pretending the Gold pass is equivalent to the Platinum to be able to claim a greater savings is bogus to start with. But...even accepting that bogus premise, the "savings" from the standard Platinum to Gold DVC/FL is $213. Period. If you use it 2 days, you "saved" $213 on a dumb purchase. If you use it 10 days, you "saved" $213 on a worthwhile purchase. If you use it 50 days, you still only "saved" $213, but you got more value. The savings don't change.

 

[DenLo]

I think the missed the boat at poly...they should have put in the multiple room types.

The resale will be a problem until they come up with a compelling reason to buy direct...that reason needs to be the resort not the perks. If they do anything to significantly lower resale it will give buyers pause as one of DVCs biggest positives vs other timeshares is the retained value, also if resales became a lot cheaper it would be harder for them to sell direct. Everyone has 24/7 access to the internet now so the usual timeshare sales tactics won't work with younger customers...so they really need compelling product first and foremost.

In the near term DVC is in a somewhat tough spot as they have no compelling reason for people to buy direct...Im sure that will change once they decide to build a new resort.

I think they didn't put in the 1 and 2BRs at the Poly because DVD remodeled the old longhouses (which the Poly preferred they do). Those long houses were built with the "unitized modular construction.” So the side walls couldn't vary. That would mean a 2 BR would be 3X the size of a studio. That is a lot of space for a single family (447X3=1341) which is over a 100 SF larger than VGF's 2BRs which is the DVC flag ship resort. If they had built a multi-story building from scratch they could have done it. There is always hope in the future they will add another building of 1 and 2 BRs.

Regarding people buying direct, there are a lot of people buying direct and threats to end or restrict privileges will draw more to purchase direct. People fall for that all the time, even when they will never recoup the money spent.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I think they didn't put in the 1 and 2BRs at the Poly because DVD remodeled the old longhouses (which the Poly preferred they do). Those long houses were built with the "unitized modular construction.” So the side walls couldn't vary. That would mean a 2 BR would be 3X the size of a studio. That is a lot of space for a single family (447X3=1341) which is over a 100 SF larger than VGF's 2BRs which is the DVC flag ship resort. If they had built a multi-story building from scratch they could have done it. There is always hope in the future they will add another building of 1 and 2 BRs.

Regarding people buying direct, there are a lot of people buying direct and threats to end or restrict privileges will draw more to purchase direct. People fall for that all the time, even when they will never recoup the money spent.

That's exactly what they did in the Jambo conversion albeit they weren't starting with such large studios. In the case of 1BR's across the property they tend to require twice the points of a studio so nothing lost there from the number of points to sell. The 2BR's likely could have been priced at 3 times the price although that would have been an oddity.

Personally I still think it wasn't about any construction concerns and rather that DVC was very self assured that Poly would sell no matter what and they felt they didn't need to do anything out of the ordinary even if they were deviating from the standard DVC resort model.

 

[bakerworld]

We just turned away our BC WL - couldn't 'do' $160/pt - knowing that DVD no longer accepts or has a WL option for BC/GF/GC. FYI.

 

[emilymad]

If we end up with a tiered system is the thinking that they will actually contractually guarantee access to the perks and discounts?

I don't understand why anyone would buy direct just for something that isn't guaranteed to be offered tomorrow let alone 50 years from now.

I guess I don't understand why Disney is doing this other than as an immediate sales tactic.

 

[ScubaCat]

I don't understand why anyone would buy direct just for something that isn't guaranteed to be offered tomorrow let alone 50 years from now.

I guess I don't understand why Disney is doing this other than as an immediate sales tactic.

Of course it's to boost direct sales. What other reason could it possibly be? Apparently it's fairly standard practice in the timeshare industry. It's amazing that it took Disney that long to implement the policy.

 

[emilymad]

Of course it's to boost direct sales. What other reason could it possibly be? Apparently it's fairly standard practice in the timeshare industry. It's amazing that it took Disney that long to implement the policy.

I understand that it is a sales tactic. I guess I am giving the consumer too much credit. Why would anyone buy into the idea of getting perks, etc that aren't contractually guaranteed?

 

[supersnoop]

I understand that it is a sales tactic. I guess I am giving the consumer too much credit. Why would anyone buy into the idea of getting perks, etc that aren't contractually guaranteed?

Because people trust Disney.

 

[ScubaCat]

Because people trust Disney.

It certainly appears that way based on all the comments I've read here and on other forums. Disney is a large, publicly traded company like many others. It's loyalties are to it's shareholders first, then it's executives (the people making the decisions), and then everyone else can have what's left over if someone happens to actually care, which is certainly neither guaranteed nor typical.

If you trust a big corporation to really have your best interests in mind, you do it at your peril.

 

[Dean]

If we end up with a tiered system is the thinking that they will actually contractually guarantee access to the perks and discounts?

I don't understand why anyone would buy direct just for something that isn't guaranteed to be offered tomorrow let alone 50 years from now.

I guess I don't understand why Disney is doing this other than as an immediate sales tactic.

I can't imagine they would guarantee them, I'm not aware of anyone else that does even when the prices are pennies to a dollar resale to retail.

I understand that it is a sales tactic. I guess I am giving the consumer too much credit. Why would anyone buy into the idea of getting perks, etc that aren't contractually guaranteed?

People do it all the time from those who buy on the tour not knowing or thinking about it but even those here that pay dramatically more because "they are more comfortable buying from Disney". IMO with the previous restrictions it wasn't a valid consideration, now it is though I think those that should buy from Disney directly as their main/first contract is still very small. Basically those who know the system, want/need what they can't get other than from Disney or without a significant discount and for those where the perks will save all of their difference within a few years. For the fear of future changes is not a valid reason IMO and because of the perception of a second class citizen either isn't a valid reason or is a valid reason not to buy.

 

[disneynutz]

Because people trust Disney.

They trust Disney, they didn't read the agreements, contracts, disclosures, the guide didn't mention it during the sales meeting, even when negative DVC changes happen, people will defend Disney.

Bill