25 points direct from Disney??

[umwhat]

With all the new restrictions on discounts on the resale market, I wondered if it were possible to purchase a 25 point contract direct from Disney (in order to get the discount card) and then purchase additional points as needed via resale.

What am I NOT thinking about here? What are the disadvantages to this?

Also, while I have seen on various other sites (dvcnews) that 25 points are available for new members at SSR and OKW, the DVC representative I spoke to today said 50 is the absolute minimum. Did I get a misinformed guide?

Help! I'm new to all of this! I was considering a resale contract the week before the new restrictions broke.

 

[Supplanter]

I believe you have to already own points to get a 25 point contract. I could be wrong tho. I know some places like aulani they say it's 100 point minimums now unless you already own some somewhere else.

 

[northshoremama]

That's correct...a 25-point contact direct from Disney is an add-on contact...so you have to be a current DVC owner.

If you buy direct from Disney for the first time and you are not a current DVC member, the minimum of 100points is required ...right now either from Poly or Aulani.

 

[malba2366]

How difficult (how long on wait list) would it be to buy 25 direct points from disney for BLT or BCV after closing on a resale?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

How difficult (how long on wait list) would it be to buy 25 direct points from disney for BLT or BCV after closing on a resale?

Unless DVC has reopened the waitlist for BCV it won't be possible to add on there. It's been closed for many months. BLT should be possible although there's a possibility you might have to wait a bit if points in your UY weren't available. I don't think there's a long waitlist though and you might even get points right away.

 

[DenLo]

You don't have to be on a wait list to buy from a older resort, just lucky that the number of points and UY you want are available at the time of contact. They are still selling BCV points regularly. We really don't know how many are still on the old closed wait list or for that matter if that wait list still even exists.

Is anyone still on a wait list for BCV? But even if folks are on a wait list doesn't mean they want the points that have been reacquired.

 

[crisi]

There is always the possibility (personally I think its a probability) that the next step will be to tier benefits based on how many points you own that you own direct. If so, I'd expect the cutoff on meaningful benefits to occur around 150.

 

[malba2366]

There is always the possibility (personally I think its a probability) that the next step will be to tier benefits based on how many points you own that you own direct. If so, I'd expect the cutoff on meaningful benefits to occur around 150.

That is very likely they will, but if they are not retroactively taking away benefits from resale buyers I doubt they will from direct buyers of small contracts. The tier system would have to be significant things if they really want to entice people to buy more points. Something that would work very well is certain numbers of fastpasses every year for each tier.

 

[supersnoop]

There is always the possibility (personally I think its a probability) that the next step will be to tier benefits based on how many points you own that you own direct. If so, I'd expect the cutoff on meaningful benefits to occur around 150.

I can't see how that helps DVD. They would likely only tier direct customers. What purpose would that serve? DVD focuses on new sales. They largely ignore upselling. And that's the only behavior that tiers would induce.

 

[crisi]

Well, they've surveyed tiered ownership at least three times in the past five years, so they think it will get them something. And there isn't any reason not to tie to it direct vs. resale points if they do it to make the direct sales pitch look better.

And I wouldn't count on 25 direct points getting grandfathered in for that purpose. They might, but its a different animal than the whole hog grandfathering they've been doing.

There are two reasons to tier benefits - one to drive ownership of more points - and Disney would like to be the person selling you those points. And two, to reduce the cost of perks to Disney - most of the perks we get cost Disney something, reducing the number of people getting a AP discount is more money for them.

My argument on this boards for over a decade has been Disney is a business, don't be surprised when they act like one. In the past year they've gotten far more interested in creating cash for themselves - whether its a reaction to the China overruns that will shift back or a change in management culture is yet to be seen - but it feels like a significant shift and I suspect it isn't short term.

 

[lcur77]

Minimum buy in for a new contract is only 50 points.

 

[JimMIA]

With all the new restrictions on discounts on the resale market, I wondered if it were possible to purchase a 25 point contract direct from Disney (in order to get the discount card) and then purchase additional points as needed via resale.

What am I NOT thinking about here? What are the disadvantages to this?

I see three fallacies in this strategy.

The first is, the strategy assumes that direct ownership (of any amount of points) will ensure member discounts. Member discounts are not guaranteed -- to ANYone, direct or resale. They change frequently, and have gone away overnight.

The second fallacy is that it assumes that the major discounts (AP, for example) will always be available. News flash: lots of us owned when there was NO AP discount, then there was, maybe in the future there won't be.

And the third fallacy, which crisi has been mentioning, assumes that DVC will always treat all direct purchasers the same. You need to look at both DVC's history and what other timeshare systems do to understand just how ludicrous that assumption is.

DVC history: they used to treat all owners the same; then they started treating resale owners different, but grandfathered people already in the system.

What makes you think they will treat all direct owners the same forever? The only constant is change.

And in addition to that, there are very sound business arguments for a tiered ownership system based on how many direct points you own. Look around the industry and you will see many examples of tiered ownership systems.

 

[Dean]

I can't see how that helps DVD. They would likely only tier direct customers. What purpose would that serve? DVD focuses on new sales. They largely ignore upselling. And that's the only behavior that tiers would induce.

Most systems would term this a VIP system. And it would almost certainly only include qualified points if it did happen. The benefit's are several. It directs new members to be more likely to buy retail, it gives them a sales angle at the table and it entices new members to buy more points to get to the next VIP level. While I'm surprised they didn't do it a long time ago, I think it's unlikely they will going forward but won't be surprised if they did.

 

[malba2366]

If/when they do implement tiered benefits it would have to be something other than AP discounts and restaurant discounts . I see them offering things like more housekeeping, dedicated reps to VIP customers, and early check in in the future. I am sure that only direct purchase points will count towards this total.

 

[Dean]

If/when they do implement tiered benefits it would have to be something other than AP discounts and restaurant discounts . I see them offering things like more housekeeping, dedicated reps to VIP customers, and early check in in the future. I am sure that only direct purchase points will count towards this total.

Here are a list of possible benefits for a VIP tiered system.

• Fees for multiple reservations/cancellations/banking/borrowing instituted and waived for VIP
• They can't do earlier reservations but they could do earlier and/or more wait lists.
• Discounts/perks including cash type exchanges and possibly with additional discounts or reduced points.
  
• Dedicated reservation line
• Ability to pay dues/tickets with points.
• Access to RCI's getaway inventory
• Discounted DVC points on short notice.
• Discounted cash stays through MS
• Increased rewards for the CC
• Early/Late Checkin
• Free upgrades subject to availability

This covers a lot, there are more and variations. Still I'm doubting it'll happen though.

 

[MrPTato]

Minimum buy in for a new contract is only 50 points.

Correct...we bought 75 last year to start and buying more next year.

 

[Minniesgal]

Minimum buy in for a new contract is only 50 points.

Sometimes...

Officially minimum is still 100 but they will sometimes sell 50if they really want to make a sale. It isn't always available,

 

[crisi]

What Disney has that other systems don't have is the parks. So they could also:

Tier discounts and perks
Offer additional Fastpass+ to Direct Owners
Tier special events

Disney is has created an income statement bind for themselves with DVC. For 25 years, they spent a bunch of capital on a resort (which they likely finance - then depreciate) and get an awesome return on their investment over three years as they sell points. When they stop selling direct points, that revenue stops contributing to their income. They've reached the state in the market where there are a lot of resale points on the market - which eats into their demand - and the internet and smart phones are probably leading to more lost sales while customers do a seach on the tour and end up realizing that they can get the same thing for a lot less.

When your market is close to saturation, your competition has gotten real, your consumers are better informed, your product has reached the point in the price curve where its difficult to justify for more people - but management and shareholders expect you to hit those revenue targets, you do something. They played their ace - we'd all been waiting for DVC at the Poly.

 

[malba2366]

I think the missed the boat at poly...they should have put in the multiple room types.

The resale will be a problem until they come up with a compelling reason to buy direct...that reason needs to be the resort not the perks. If they do anything to significantly lower resale it will give buyers pause as one of DVCs biggest positives vs other timeshares is the retained value, also if resales became a lot cheaper it would be harder for them to sell direct. Everyone has 24/7 access to the internet now so the usual timeshare sales tactics won't work with younger customers...so they really need compelling product first and foremost.

In the near term DVC is in a somewhat tough spot as they have no compelling reason for people to buy direct...Im sure that will change once they decide to build a new resort.

 

[Airb330]

Here are a list of possible benefits for a VIP tiered system.

• Fees for multiple reservations/cancellations/banking/borrowing instituted and waived for VIP
• They can't do earlier reservations but they could do earlier and/or more wait lists.
• Discounts/perks including cash type exchanges and possibly with additional discounts or reduced points.
  
• Dedicated reservation line
• Ability to pay dues/tickets with points.
• Access to RCI's getaway inventory
• Discounted DVC points on short notice.
• Discounted cash stays through MS
• Increased rewards for the CC
• Early/Late Checkin
• Free upgrades subject to availability

This covers a lot, there are more and variations. Still I'm doubting it'll happen though.

I was thinking about a "loyalty program" with elite levels this morning actually. Not so much just for DVC, but for just Disney World in general. Of course with the airlines now moving towards a revenue based system, they aren't as appealing but I get the move to match the hotel programs. At Disney you could earn X points per dollar spent at Disney to get a discount on tickets with points or use points for food. Elite levels that may add Late Checkout, Waived resort fees (if instituted), and more points per dollar compared to the base level.

But since a Disney trip is a vacation and little of the money spent is corporate, I don't think a loyalty program is necessary. Since, as you said, they've never leaned that way before I doubt they need to now. AA/DL/UA aren't doing loyalty programs from the goodness of their hearts, they're necessary in a competitive travel market. Disney World is not a competitive market and I'd argue is relativity resistant to outside pressure. The parks are still crowded even though it is significantly more money to visit now than 5 years ago.