2022 Annual Dues

[sethschroeder]

OR - we're back to seeing DVC subsidize operating costs during the sales period. FL has never seemed to care about it unlike HI.

You mean members overpaying MFs at launch?

I don't think Disney is subsidizing since you are not seeing any "catch-up" after a resort exits active sales. Those resorts simply seem to start doing normal increases slowly.

 

[Sandisw]

Wooooah... a 7% increase at VGC, when the resort was closed for almost 4 months at the beginning of the year????

What will be interesting...and I think VGC owners should ask...is what they will do with the operating credit from the 2021 closure from Jan to May. IIRC, the POS states those are normally put into capital reserves.

But, for 2020, they did give it back to owners instead. I wonder if it will be the same? Nothing has been mentioned about it so if I owned VGC, I'd be emailing to find out!!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

You mean members overpaying MFs at launch?

I don't think Disney is subsidizing since you are not seeing any "catch-up" after a resort exits active sales. Those resorts simply seem to start doing normal increases slowly.

Yes, it was typical for DVC to subsidize. Aulani was the point where it mostly stopped but it doesn't mean it couldn't happen again.

 

[Sandisw]

Dues are based solely on the projected 2022 expenses and are not backwards-looking.

There may be a credit for 2021, which would then be applied against the 2022 dues statements. But that wouldn't change the budget expectation for operating expenses in 2022.

I just posted that we do not know that for sure. Normally, it goes to capital reserves. What happened in 2020 was unique

 

[havoc315]

OR - we're back to seeing DVC subsidize operating costs during the sales period. FL has never seemed to care about it unlike HI.

Very unlikely. If that was the case, why not subsidize from day 1, and launch with lower dues to entice buyers?

 

[Sandisw]

You mean members overpaying MFs at launch?

I don't think Disney is subsidizing since you are not seeing any "catch-up" after a resort exits active sales. Those resorts simply seem to start doing normal increases slowly.

DVD guarantees to cover any shortfall with the projection in lieu of not paying for the points they own. So, I do think they have a way to "cover' based on the sales projections if they fall short.

But, I don't think they can purposefully underinflate expenses to keep things artificially low...just that when things are sold out, and they are no longer an owner of the bulk of the points, those expenses can and do rise.

 

[pkrieger2287]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1457756208576729095

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Very unlikely. If that was the case, why not subsidize from day 1, and launch with lower dues to entice buyers?

That was what they did before but the same thing can be used later. Say you are having slower sales than you wanted and the high dues are being brought up as a reason why. Then you can do some subsidizing for a year or two and say "look how you don't have large increases in dues here. Other resorts are passing it".

I actually think that more likely is that they were just estimated too high to start but you never know when an idea might come back around.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

DVD guarantees to cover any shortfall with the projection in lieu of not paying for the points they own. So, I do think they have a way to "cover' based on the sales projections if they fall short.

But, I don't think they can purposefully underinflate expenses to keep things artificially low...just that when things are sold out, and they are no longer an owner of the bulk of the points, those expenses can and do rise.

Of course they can't underinflate expenses but the "guarantee shortfall" can be used in a myriad of ways. That is how it can be done.

 

[EYL]

RIV 8.384 basically unchanged.

How??? Not that I am complaining but that is not the loin girding I was expecting.

IMO..they are still in the estimation phase for costs, especially Skyliner.. and this is typical of when resorts are first on sale.

Would anyone, by any chance, know how property taxes factor into a new resort? I believe the property appraisal for Riviera went up, which means property taxes should go up as well. I'm as surprised that RIV didn't go up more...

 

[Stargazer65]

Hooray, it's almost dues season!

It's like a second Christmas in January.

 

[Sandisw]

Of course they can't underinflate expenses but the "guarantee shortfall" can be used in a myriad of ways. That is how it can be done.

Exactly. That was the point I was making. There are ways for them to get to the same result of starting with an overestimate, use the guarnatee, etc. to help sales, and then reverse course later!

 

[pianomanzano]

Curious how the percentage of rooms declared at RIV plays into the dues (if at all). Are fees just calculated as if it were fully declared and Disney just pays for dues associated with the points that are undeclared?

 

[Sandisw]

Would anyone, by any chance, know how property taxes factor into a new resort? I believe the property appraisal for Riviera went up, which means property taxes should go up as well. I'm as surprised that RIV didn't go up more...

The assessment went up by about 43% because its based on the part of the resort declared. Since more was declared into 2021...then what was there and estimated in 2020 when it was done...its the increase. It will continue this way until the entire resort is declared.

But, the actual rate was pretty stable (owners paid$1.8421 per point in the 2021 dues and its the same $1.8421 for 2022) because more of the resort is declared, and ore owners sharing that figure...as well as knowing more declarations will happen. So, what we will see (which would not be part of the 2022 dues...is how much shortfall there was compared to what we paid in 2021 and that will be added to the bill when we get it...just like the other resorts will see the credit.

But, that does not actually change the budget...just what we have to pay when the bill comes. That is why we have to remember that when we got the 2020 credit, it didn't change the per point rate, but simply took it off the total. That won't be there this year so people have to account for that!

 

[RoseGold]

What on earth OKW??? Last year got slammed, this year got slammed. Meanwhile BC over here at 1%.

These are overall better than I expected.

 

[havoc315]

That was what they did before but the same thing can be used later. Say you are having slower sales than you wanted and the high dues are being brought up as a reason why. Then you can do some subsidizing for a year or two and say "look how you don't have large increases in dues here. Other resorts are passing it".

I actually think that more likely is that they were just estimated too high to start but you never know when an idea might come back around.

They can't secretly subsidize the dues. Ultimately, the entire budget is published, and easy enough to compare to the other resorts.

Under your theory, a resort like CCV should have seen a huge spike in dues when they stopped subsidizing... yet, it has continued to have very slow increases compared to the more establish resorts.

 

[Sparky984]

Looks like RIV is no longer the highest? OKW is $8.80.

When we were looking to purchase in 2020, the rage about RR was the $8.31 in MFs. OKW blew by it with ease. Since 2021 fees were released, the complaints about RRs MFs have dwindled. I would expect people to be upset with OKWs fees now, right?

There was a chart a while back, showing a corralling towards the middle over time. I’d be interested to see an updated version as we continue to digest the 2022 news.

 

[Sparky984]

What on earth OKW??? Last year got slammed, this year got slammed. Meanwhile BC over here at 1%.

These are overall better than I expected.

A happy RR owner here. An increase of .008% when inflation is well…who knows - but way above that! I’m hoping that RRs slow sales translates into smaller increases for longer.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Wooooah... a 7% increase at VGC, when the resort was closed for almost 4 months at the beginning of the year????

my heart sank a little bit to this news.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

What will be interesting...and I think VGC owners should ask...is what they will do with the operating credit from the 2021 closure from Jan to May. IIRC, the POS states those are normally put into capital reserves.

But, for 2020, they did give it back to owners instead. I wonder if it will be the same? Nothing has been mentioned about it so if I owned VGC, I'd be emailing to find out!!

who exactly would we need to email?