2020 Point Charts

[LisaS]

Thanks.

I found the drawing of unit 24A but from what I can see I don’t own a percentage of a studio or 1Br, seems I own a percentage of an entire floor is that correct?

What makes up a Unit can vary from resort to resort. For example, in Jambo House at AKV, the majority of Units are two 2BRs or 3 dedicated studios or 1 GV. But there are also some Units that consist of three 2BRs or 4 dedicated studios or Two 2BRs + 1 dedicated studio and possibly some other combinations as well. If I remember correctly, at OKW each building is a Unit.

 

[drusba]

Thanks.

I found the drawing of unit 24A but from what I can see I don’t own a percentage of a studio or 1Br, seems I own a percentage of an entire floor is that correct?

Nowhere near an entire floor. Your unit has one 2BR and four 1BRs and appears to be one of the units that is just before and at the corner of the front of the building where you have one of those special standard 1BRs (shown at the end of your unit) that have an extra large living room.

 

[Cyberc1978]

What makes up a Unit can vary from resort to resort. For example, in Jambo House at AKV, the majority of Units are two 2BRs or 3 dedicated studios or 1 GV. But there are also some Units that consist of three 2BRs or 4 dedicated studios or Two 2BRs + 1 dedicated studio and possibly some other combinations as well. If I remember correctly, at OKW each building is a Unit.

Nowhere near an entire floor. Your unit has one 2BR and four 1BRs and appears to be one of the units that is just before and at the corner of the front of the building where you have one of those special standard 1BRs (shown at the end of your unit) that have an extra large living room.

Thanks.

According to @drusba post #327 the points in any given unit have to stay the same. If a “unit” is the same as multiple 2br and 1Br (in this case) couldn’t you argue that Disney is “allowed” to increase studio + 1Br and lower 2br as it’s within the same “unit”?

 

[Dean]

Nowhere near an entire floor. Your unit has one 2BR and four 1BRs and appears to be one of the units that is just before and at the corner of the front of the building where you have one of those special standard 1BRs (shown at the end of your unit) that have an extra large living room.

I think the only thing that was an entire floor was the VB Inn rooms and they made a quick change away from that situation.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thanks.

According to @drusba post #327 the points in any given unit have to stay the same. If a “unit” is the same as multiple 2br and 1Br (in this case) couldn’t you argue that Disney is “allowed” to increase studio + 1Br and lower 2br as it’s within the same “unit”?

That would be correct, however as pointed out the units were not always declared equally in villa set up. Once you change the combination of what a unit is then the only feasible way to keep the unit points the same is to break it down into the individual villa units always being set at the initial point totals they started with. Then any unit combination whether it's 2 2BR's and 1 dedicated 1BR in a unit or if it's 4 2BR's and a dedicated studio unit won't matter.

The resorts that don't have dedicated studios and 1BR's may possible be ok although that could depend on how every unit was declared - ie if some happened to have a GV as part of it but not all did.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

So at Jambo, unless the Values and the Concierge rooms were declared in the same units they would also be outside of language in keeping the unit points the same with the point shifts they have done in both the 2019 and 2020 charts. It also was one that puzzled me for justification because both villa types were high demand so they were not really basing it on that - just on 1 type, concierge and then ignoring the demand for Value villas as being high. It's one I thought would have been better left alone since it wasn't even attempting to shift a high demand to a low demand, just shifting the "cost" from one high demand to another high demand. Assuming they even could or should shift out of the unit I understand that there wasn't much else that could have participated in the process because of the small number of those units which is why leaving it alone would have probably been best IMO.

 

[WB1971]

I am willing to. If anyone with more experience could start this I'd be happy to contribute. Otherwise I'll do it.
Anyone knows a lawyer who I could contact? I'll get a quote and start a GoFundMe campaign.

Keep us posted, I might like to join. As a PVB member who has no interest in bungalows, I feel unjustly harmed by this reallocation.

 

[drusba]

Thanks.

According to @drusba post #327 the points in any given unit have to stay the same. If a “unit” is the same as multiple 2br and 1Br (in this case) couldn’t you argue that Disney is “allowed” to increase studio + 1Br and lower 2br as it’s within the same “unit”?

Yes, that is a possible counter-argument, but how far does it go. For example, BWV has both standard and preferred units with a studio, 1BR and 2BR. Those standard units have fewer total points applicable to them than the preferred units with the same room make-up. If, as has happened at BWV, you see all the standard room points per night go up throughout the year, and the only thing that goes down is preferred 2BRs, you can probably bet heavily the standard view units now have higher point totals, i.e., DVC raised the points needed per night for almost every night of the year for all the standard studios, 1BRs and 2BRs.

That is also why at least two of the prior reallocations are questionable. In 2013, DVC raised the points needed for Treehouses at SSR by about 15% for every night of the year and lowered points for all other rooms a tad. Those treehouses were their own groups of units, i.e., they were in units that consisted of only treehouses, which resulted mainly from the fact that the treehouses were not built until after all other SSR units had already been completely declared. Thus, the total points applicable to those Treehouse units necessarily increased by 15% from the total that was originally created (and the latest change made at SSR raises those Treehouses another 10% with no decreases in any season). The other questionable reallocation is the change at SSR into standard and preferred areas. That reallocation necessarily decreased the total points for all the units in all the buildings that were changed to standard and increased them for all the units in all the buildings that were changed to preferred, neither of which action should be allowed if the total points applicable to the units needs to remain the same.

I have not done enough to see how the issue applies to the other resorts as a result of the new point charts, but one that appears obvious is Poly. The bungalows are units separate from any of the studios. The change there was to shift bungalow points to studios, lowering the total points applicable to bungalow units and raising them for units having studios in them.

 

[bobbiwoz]

What I am understanding now is that what was thought to be the net result of any point adjustment has been shown to be wrong. What I see here is people trying to make sense of this new point chart, but it does not fit into what was assumed to be common knowledge. Plus, DVC refuses to explain in a way we can understand. I had been satisfied that any changes would fit the criteria as I understood, and my understanding was based on what has been on these boards.

I guess I have to decide if DVC is still a good place to have a very large amount of money in. Wow, this is a bummer.

 

[ParkHoppers]

The new chart hurts us as we are mostly one bedroom at BLT people. We will have to get more points if we still want to go every year. This along with probably not being able to use TOTWL for free anymore and I would say thisnis a bad week for BLT owners and DVC owners in general.

 

[Mumof4mice]

Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas, the surprising point chart changes notwithstanding. May the new year bring much joy to you and your loved ones!

 

[kmc8826]

The new chart hurts us as we are mostly one bedroom at BLT people. We will have to get more points if we still want to go every year. This along with probably not being able to use TOTWL for free anymore and I would say thisnis a bad week for BLT owners and DVC owners in general.

I absolutely agree. We bought our BLT resale just in June and have our first DVC trip in a couple weeks. BLT better dazzle me or I am seriously considering selling it. The 160 points did not go that far with one bedrooms as it was, and with the change it is even worse. If bad news comes in threes I hope the DVC bad news coming is for DVC to raise all the direct prices now. Between dues and the point chart it seems that will be the next thing to come. If they do up the direct prices though maybe I will have a little better chance of taking less of a loss on the BLT contract. I got a decent deal but it seems that since then the prices have only stayed the same or gone down from the $138 a point that I paid. It is depressing.

 

[Roxyfire]

I absolutely agree. We bought our BLT resale just in June and have our first DVC trip in a couple weeks. BLT better dazzle me or I am seriously considering selling it. The 160 points did not go that far with one bedrooms as it was, and with the change it is even worse. If bad news comes in threes I hope the DVC bad news coming is for DVC to raise all the direct prices now. Between dues and the point chart it seems that will be the next thing to come. If they do up the direct prices though maybe I will have a little better chance of taking less of a loss on the BLT contract. I got a decent deal but it seems that since then the prices have only stayed the same or gone down from the $138 a point that I paid. It is depressing.

I would say if you're staying in a studio you may not be impressed at all. But if you're in a 1-bedroom it'll probably be a lot nicer. Personally I use my BLT resale to mainly stay at Polynesian standard view studios vs BLT studios because those are too small for us. But the 1-bedroom units are far too spendy for my 125 points. It's too bad really, I was considering adding on since I'm likely getting a new job this year but I'm not going to bother now unless Riviera is truly amazing.

 

[SL6827]

So am I reading into this correctly by thinking that this reallocation has way more to do with lining Disney's pockets(with the point premium for 2 bedroom lockoffs??) verses trying to even out demand with the units through out the year?

 

[skier_pete]

So am I reading into this correctly by thinking that this reallocation has way more to do with lining Disney's pockets(with the point premium for 2 bedroom lockoffs??) verses trying to even out demand with the units through out the year?

I see some of both. Some reallocation to make the magic season slightly cheaper at some resorts, but yes mostly looks like they are trying to create more points by using the lockoff premium when the units are split up.

 

[SL6827]

I see some of both. Some reallocation to make the magic season slightly cheaper at some resorts, but yes mostly looks like they are trying to create more points by using the lockoff premium when the units are split up.

So is this possibly the most "shady" thing that DVC has done to line their pockets?

 

[skier_pete]

So is this possibly the most "shady" thing that DVC has done to line their pockets?

I've only been involved with DVC for 5 years but I would agree with that statement. While it helps some members (those that rent 2-beds) it hurts more IMO (those that rent studios and 1-beds) and in the end the biggest benefactor will be Disney.

 

[SL6827]

I've only been involved with DVC for 5 years but I would agree with that statement. While it helps some members (those that rent 2-beds) it hurts more IMO (those that rent studios and 1-beds) and in the end the biggest benefactor will be Disney.

Well I have only been in the DVC for about 9 months, but have been doing Disney since 2005. I feel like this is the way in which this company is going and will never look back. I just have a gut feeling that for myself, my family, our Disney trips may not be as frequent as they have in the past and therefore I no longer have a desire in which to add more points or really become a more serious serious DVC member.

 

[Wakey]

I’m seeing a lot of owners saying they are not going to add on, or will sell points. My concern though is that we are a small minority, the average DVC owner may be totally oblivious to the changes. Our relatively small group becoming disaffected and (horror to Disney) reducing spend could be seen as just minor collateral damage.
I seem to be getting angrier every day about this, as I get badly hit as we always took 1 beds and I justifiably feel if anything , 1 beds should have gone down. Then I see this analysis that points are being artificially created as a lockoff premium.
I feel the way Disney in general is going, and the 1-5 year bonus motivation the management have, that we could see more of this lockoff premium point inflation next year, then the next if they can just get away with it.
Larry is no longer laughing.....

 

[Mumof4mice]

Agree the aggressive push for profit performance feels distasteful. Sorry to all the owners badly hit by the point chart changes! (We got off easy, PVB is only 1/3 of our points)

No doubt 2020 is predicted to be a bumper year for hotel and DVC villa occupancy. A much higher than normal percentage of owners will be banking 2019 points to use in 2020 for SWGE. Those points have to be absorbed in 2020/2021/2022 (with people unable to secure bookings banking 2020 points to use into 2021 and so on). Availability will be tight for a few years.

Also, how quickly a room category books up doesn't equal how many rooms ultimately end up going to breakage. 1BRs may book last, but any stray days/last minute cancellations still have a better chance of being snapped up than 2BRs due to the lower point cost for 1BRs.

Not saying there can't be any ulterior motive on Disney's part. It's a timeshare -inveiglement and obfuscation are standard package inclusions. But I doubt they're doing anything outright illegal. If pressed, Disney should be able to offer defendable explanations that deters attempts at legal challenge.

The flexibility in a flexible point system cuts both ways.