2008 DDP discussion, questions, rants and vents

[marivaid]

Disney and the union projects that the automatic gratuity for groups of 6 or more and the automatic gratuity for DDE discounted checks will be enough to compensation for reduced tips by DDP customers.

So do you think it will lead to the exact same complaint (bad service due to automatic gratuity), but simply from a different group of people ?

 

[pilferk]

Of course.

I guess if you're looking at a one night dining plan, not even sure if you can just buy it for one night,assume $22 for two snacks and one mug, you might be able to almost cover the rest of the cost of the plan with lunch. Remember the deluxe plan includes an appetizer.

Do you want to play with the numbers? Assume a guest uses the plan for an early lunch, an early dinner and a second dinner at restaurant closing time.

Second dinner? Is Bilbo about? I thought this was a Disney board, not a Middle Earth fan site!

 

[marivaid]

Do you want to play with the numbers? Assume a guest uses the plan for an early lunch, an early dinner and a second dinner at restaurant closing time.

Why not.. got nothing to do today. Gotta love summer in Europe, it's 60° outside... but I disgress and must get back to my task

 

[trivial]

Second dinner? Is Bilbo about? I thought this was a Disney board, not a Middle Earth fan site!

Don't forget second breakfast, elevenses, and tea!

Breaking news! Disney announces 2009 addition to DDP: The Super Premium Hobbit Dining Plan! 7 TS credits, 4 snack credits, and a bonus mushroom credit per day. Price: $129.99/day for adults; $79.99/day for children. Disclaimer: desserts, napkins, silverware, and seats will no longer be covered (seats will be available for purchase for length of stay at additional cost).

 

[Lewisc]

So do you think it will lead to the exact same complaint (bad service due to automatic gratuity), but simply from a different group of people ?

GREAT POINT, this refutes Disney's claim that the change in included gratuity is in response to guest claims about the automatic gratuity affecting service.

Dropping the included gratuity is a way to decrease the cost of the dining plan to Disney and probably decrease server compensation.

 

[Kami]

I agree with the posters that talk about it being "freeing". When I did the dining plan last year, we didn't go to Universal (we did when 2 yrs. before, when we didn't have dining). Everything was inclusive, (food, tickets) so we just stayed at WDW. Now, when we go back next year, we will stay at Universal for half of our trip. The Deluxe plan is crazy for my family because I have 2 kids, that WDW considers adults, so I will not pay $280 plus tip to eat each day. It was actually a hassle in some ways, because if the kids or DH was hungry at 4, I wouldn't want them to eat because they would be too full to eat at 7. I will enjoy eating when we are hungry and not because we have a ressie. I will still go to Boma's and a character breakfast (maybe Lecellier's for dessert), but we will not book a restaurant for each day. Well now I will go over to the Universal posts and find out more about the hotels there! See Ya!

 

[pilferk]

So do you think it will lead to the exact same complaint (bad service due to automatic gratuity), but simply from a different group of people ?

My guess: Probably not. At least not on the DDE side.

Why? Because (and this is my wholly unsubstantiated opinion, here) DDE users typically tipped the discount (20%), from what I've read. By adding an auto 18% to the bill....they're actually saving 2%. I also figure the servers will know that these "types" of diners tend (again, my wholly unsubstantiated suspicion) to order adult drinks, apps, deserts, dine with friends, etc. So the servers 18% tip will be, possibly, as large or larger than DDP tips. So servers will want those patrons BACK in their restaurants. And one final caveat: All above is JHMO.

Combine that with the fact that DDE users actually PAY for a CARD to get a 20% discount on food at WDW....

On the reduction in party size for auto tip? Well, we've seen some objections already. I don't think we'll really be able to gauge that one til it goes into effect. It's a bit less of a "homogonizable" (yeah, I know, probably not a real word) group, because they're not characterized, in advance, by a card or participation in a plan...they're characterized by how big a group they are when they sit down at a table.

 

[marivaid]

GREAT POINT, this refutes Disney's claim that the change in included gratuity is in response to guest claims about the automatic gratuity affecting service.

Dropping the included gratuity is a way to decrease the cost of the dining plan to Disney and probably decrease server compensation.

Why, thank you Lewisc
See this is what I meant earlier by saying that I don't see any improvement. To me it comes down to just inconveniencing one group instead of another, all the while the only reason behind dropping the tip is for Disney to make more money (which is obviously normal since they ARE a business).
I'm just not falling for the "Disney is doing this because people were complaining about bad service".

 

[pilferk]

As an aside:

Can anyone shed any light on how DDP tips were "handled" by WDW for the server.

In other words, most corporate places your cash tips are yours (or pooled, but not often anymore), and you get your CC tips in your paycheck at the end of the week. I heard (and can't remember where) that the auto tips on DDP were anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks LATER, after the service took place. But I certainly allow that I'm completely butchering that and misremembering...so I'm hoping maybe someone can shed more concrete light on the process (any CM's incognito around here and want to PM me? I'll keep your id or whatever confidential and just post what you tell me).

 

[marivaid]

Mug $13

Kona Lunch
Crab Cakes 10.49
Polynesian Plate Lunch 12.19
Dessert $5.99
Drink $3
Total for lunch : $31.67

Dinner #1 Rose & Crown

Prawn Cocktail $8.99
Grilled Steak $21.99
Sticky Toffee Pudding $5.99
Drink $3
Total Dinner #1 : $39.97

Dinner #2 Spoodles

Mediterranean Dips $8.99
Steak Kababs $22.99
Creme Brulee $6.99
Drink $3
Total Dinner #2 : $41.97

Snacks
Pepto Bismol $3.99
Tylenol $2.99

Grand Total for this day : $133.59
Not including tax.

Sweet deal... but then you gotta wonder, why even bother getting a room at all.

 

[pilferk]

Why, thank you Lewisc
See this is what I meant earlier by saying that I don't see any improvement. To me it comes down to just inconveniencing one group instead of another, all the while the only reason behind dropping the tip is for Disney to make more money (which is obviously normal since they ARE a business).
I'm just not falling for the "Disney is doing this because people were complaining about bad service".

Ultimately, I think you're right: This came down to a financial decision (as made obvious by the price reduction amount) rather than a CS one. And I also agree, i think the CS reasoning is simply "justification" for the change that stings the consumer a bit less when giving the party line. That being said, we did see, on the DIS, a number of complaints from people...so we know they DID exist. It's not an outright LIE by Disney...not even a fib, really...it's just not the ENTIRE truth.

 

[Lewisc]

Disney offered the automatic tip on DDE checks as a way to compensation for reduced tips from DDP customers. The union agreed.

Many posters on DIS claim to tip 20% on the undiscounted check. Either they're not typical DDE customers, have bad memories or lie.

The union wouldn't have agree do this if the typical DDE customer tipped 20%on the undiscounted check. An 20% tip from a customer that bases their tip on the discounted check is only 16%. A 15% from a customer that bases their tip on the discounted check is only 12%.

My guess: Probably not. At least not on the DDE side.

Why? Because (and this is my wholly unsubstantiated opinion, here) DDE users typically tipped the discount (20%), from what I've read. By adding an auto 18% to the bill....they're actually saving 2%. I also figure the servers will know that these "types" of diners tend (again, my wholly unsubstantiated suspicion) to order adult drinks, apps, deserts, dine with friends, etc. So the servers 18% tip will be, possibly, as large or larger than DDP tips. So servers will want those patrons BACK in their restaurants. And one final caveat: All above is JHMO.

 

[pilferk]

Mug $13

Kona Lunch
Crab Cakes 10.49
Polynesian Plate Lunch 12.19
Dessert $5.99
Drink $3
Total for lunch : $31.67

Dinner #1 Rose & Crown

Prawn Cocktail $8.99
Grilled Steak $21.99
Sticky Toffee Pudding $5.99
Drink $3
Total Dinner #1 : $39.97

Dinner #2 Spoodles

Mediterranean Dips $8.99
Steak Kababs $22.99
Creme Brulee $6.99
Drink $3
Total Dinner #2 : $41.97

Snacks
Pepto Bismol $3.99
Tylenol $2.99

Grand Total for this day : $133.59
Not including tax.

Sweet deal... but then you gotta wonder, why even bother getting a room at all.

Yeah, because if I ATE that much every day, I personally wouldn't fit through my door at the end of a few days. But that's just me and my stinking slower than molasses metabolism....and furry feet...hey, wait a sec....maybe I AM a hobbit!

Seriously, that's some pretty good value right there. I question anyone being willing to do it to get the max like that, but...it's there for those that want it.

I'd personally do a TS meal and a Siggie meal or dinner show most days..with something "small" to balance out somewhere along the line (using those snack credits for a bagel or a pretzel or something).

 

[marivaid]

Ultimately, I think you're right: This came down to a financial decision (as made obvious by the price reduction amount) rather than a CS one. And I also agree, i think the CS reasoning is simply "justification" for the change that stings the consumer a bit less when giving the party line. That being said, we did see, on the DIS, a number of complaints from people...so we know they DID exist. It's not an outright LIE by Disney...not even a fib, really...it's just not the ENTIRE truth.

Absolutely ! Now whether these complaints were justified or not, that's another story, but there were complaints and I don't deny that.

In the end, I think Disney will do exactly what they want and they'll still do just fine. Parents screamed bloody murder when the changes in kids menus took place months ago, but except for a few minor modifications it's still the same - and parents are paying for their kids to eat the same rabbit food in almost every TS.

 

[marivaid]

Disney : We're dropping the tip from the DDP.
Servers : Rabble rabble rabble !!!
Disney : OK, OK, fine we'll add it to the DDE instead.

 

[pilferk]

Disney offered the automatic tip on DDE checks as a way to compensation for reduced tips from DDP customers. The union agreed.

Many posters on DIS claim to tip 20% on the undiscounted check. Either they're not typical DDE customers, have bad memories or lie.

The union wouldn't have agree do this if the typical DDE customer tipped 20%on the undiscounted check. An 20% tip from a customer that bases their tip on the discounted check is only 16%. A 15% from a customer that bases their tip on the discounted check is only 12%.

Not knowing what the terms were, what the data was, and what the total grounds for the negotiations were....it's tough to take that leap with you. I've seen, much too up close and personally, how large unions can handle disparate professions in the same bargaining unit. I don't know what the REST of the provisions for the contract were, either....so don't know that the DDE tip and the group size tip were the ONLY concessions meant to balance out the loss of the auto DDP tip.

The servers were pretty ticked the union made those particular concessions, or so we've all heard. Just because the union agreed to it, and the membership at large voted to pass it, does not, automatically, mean it was the best thing for the servers, or that it didn't leave money on the table for them. It just means they were in the best interests of the UNION, and the bargaining unit as a whole. Given what was going on at the time......sometimes things happen to get deals done.

Also, in general, in my response, I was speaking more toward the "will we hear complaining" piece of the post. I don't think WE will because, largely, on the DIS, people have posted they tip the discount. IF that's true, they're getting a discount of 2% on what they would have tipped (can't complain) OR they weren't doing it, saying they WERE doing it, and STILL can't complain.

See what I mean?

 

[RACHELSMOM1]

I'll ask again ........... from either of you.

I don't understand ???
Can you explain more !

Okay, I will try. The TS and CS meals are interchangeable, so that gives flexibility. I can plan for our family to go to all the signature restaurants we never got to go to before - I would never plan more than one per trip before, due to cost restraints. Plus, the refillable mugs, and the appertizers are included. I will have so many more choices with the deluxe plan. When we go on vacation we want to pamper ourselves, and this plan works for us!! If someone doesn't like the plan, then they should not buy it. But, we do like it!!

 

[pilferk]

Another point:

100 people.

70 tip 20%

30 tip 15% (aka on the discounted amount).

Your average is 18.5%.

So by mandating the 18%, you're evening things out, but not really losing anything.

 

[marivaid]

Also, in general, in my response, I was speaking more toward the "will we hear complaining" piece of the post. I don't think WE will because, largely, on the DIS, people have posted they tip the discount. IF that's true, they're getting a discount of 2% on what they would have tipped (can't complain) OR they weren't doing it, saying they WERE doing it, and STILL can't complain.

See what I mean?

I don't think we will see any complaints about having to pay the 18% tip because like you said, either they were already doing it or claimed they were doing it.

However I think we may see complaints about service, the same kind guests on the DDP posted here often ie : "We got bad service because we had the DDE and the server knew he'd get his 18% so he didn't care."
That, of course, would imply that the server knows guests have the DDE card before the end of the meal - maybe hostesses will ask that before they seat you, just like they do with the DDP.

For the record I'd actually be very glad to see the automatic gratuity added to our bill. Anything that keeps me from having to calculate the tip is a big plus in my book.

 

[Lewisc]

Your numbers are a good starting point. Without any facts I'll speculate more guests tip less then 15% (remember a 15% tip on the discounted check is only 12%) then tip over 20%. Some restaurant patrons "double the tax" as a tip but the sales tax rate in FL isn't high enough for that to work.

I can't imagine the union negotiators agreeing to the automatic DDE tip if the typical DDE customer tipped back the discount.

Another point:

100 people.

70 tip 20%

30 tip 15% (aka on the discounted amount).

Your average is 18.5%.

So by mandating the 18%, you're evening things out, but not really losing anything.