2008 DDP discussion, questions, rants and vents

[Ms. WDW]

I just got off the phone with a CM from disney dining. I asked about the restaurants that were not included with the 2008 regular DDP. Mainly the absence of San Angel Inn and Nine Dragons in world showcase.

Her computer shows that those two restaurants are "pending" and that they are not finalized for the 2008 plan, YET!.

Last year San Angel was one of the "last minute" additions also. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will again participate.

 

[trivial]

I feel that the new dining plan options appeal to our lifestyle and will hopefully weed out the people that have taken advantage of the system for the last few years; the same people that have kept us away from WDW with their rudeness and sense of entitlement and wanting something for nothing.

One of us is confused and/or mistaken. How is utilizing the service that someone has paid for "taking advantage" of it? Are people not expected to take advantage of the DDP, or ought they leave a few credits left over in service to Disney? Although I'm assuming by the tone of your post that "taking advantage" is something that you feel people should be ashamed of, which perplexes me.

 

[RACHELSMOM1]

The regular plan doesn't work for us. We don't have kids & part of our vacation is enjoying the restaurants. We eat 2 meals a day, usually both TS & usually dinner is a 2TS place. So the deluxe plan will save us money, and fit our habits well. The $70/day will just about be what lunch would cost, plus the free refillable mugs! It will be like getting the 2ts free. And anytime I can eat just for the price of the tip (20%) I think it's a good deal.

I love your attitude. My thoughts are about the same, except I have kids, and still love the Deluxe plan!!

 

[thunderbird1]

So what did the servers do before the DDP? The DDP has not been around forever, so maybe they are just a little bit scared/spoiled that they will actually have to work for their tips?

My concern for the CM's isn't about whether their tip is guaranteed or not, it's about guests being confused and/or cheap because of the change.

Had the tip never been included, it would be a non-issue. But because the tip has been included for the past 3 years, people have gotten used to not having to add it to their bill. I fear there will be a lot of people who will either not tip because they don't realize the tip no longer included, or not tip because they didn't realize the tip was no longer included when they purchased the plan, and now they're angry because they feel like they've been ripped off.

In the long run, I think the big losers will be the guests, because the best servers will leave and go somewhere else outside of WDW, where people know the tip hasn't already been added and are willing to do so.

 

[mickey2000]

I love your attitude. My thoughts are about the same, except I have kids, and still love the Deluxe plan!!

And anytime I can eat just for the price of the tip (20%) I think it's a good deal.

I'll ask again ........... from either of you.

I don't understand ???
Can you explain more !

 

[Princess Stitch]

I like the addition of the Deluxe plan. One of the problems me and DBF always had was not having enough TS credits. We end up paying for meals OOP and having CS credits left over. This three meal a day thing means we can do a signature every day if we want, another FULL meal and then two snacks to round it off. I'm sure the two of us could dine for less than $140 a day, but we like to spoil ourselves at Disney!

I'm sure we'll change our minds on this when we have kids.. but I know that if we're lucky enough to be able to afford to go back to Disney again next year we'll be doing it on the Deluxe plan!

 

[pilferk]

I'm sure we'll change our minds on this when we have kids.. but I know that if we're lucky enough to be able to afford to go back to Disney again next year we'll be doing it on the Deluxe plan!

Maybe not.

We have 3 kids....and the Deluxe STILL looks like a good option depending on what "style" our trip is taking on. Now...for our upcoming trip...not so much. We'll be doing more theme park "commando-ing" (though not a ton, but some) and don't want to commit the time to sit down eats every meal.

But, as I've said previously, the '09 Xmas trip, the DXDDP is looking like a good option..with those 3 kids in tow.

Now, having said that, they're good at sit down places. I don't think the "kids" think will change your mind, but likely things will change a bit depending on particular trips and situations.

 

[marivaid]

This was created as a discount dining plan for guests staying at WDW resorts. All that is simply happening is a decrease in this discount, and it is STILL a discount.

Not necessarily. It CAN be a discount, if you know what you're doing. If you're the average family who's never been to WDW, doesn't know that there is such a thing as the DIS and AllEars and doesn't even know that Disney has fine restaurants you can end up with something like this :

- 1 TS : Crystal Palace Breakfast $18.99
- 1 CS : Peco's Bill $12
- 1 Snack : $3

Total : $33.99

For every family who's using the DDP to its full potential (TS at Epcot restaurants, CS at Pepper Market) I bet that there is a family who wastes credits on breakfasts and cheap CS.

IMO there's a reason why Disney refuses to simply put a daily cap on the value of the DDP, the last thing they want is for the majority of guests to know how much they can get out of it.

 

[pilferk]

Not necessarily. It CAN be a discount, if you know what you're doing. If you're the average family who's never been to WDW, doesn't know that there is such a thing as the DIS and AllEars and doesn't even know that Disney has fine restaurants you can end up with something like this :

- 1 TS : Crystal Palace Breakfast $18.99
- 1 CS : Peco's Bill $12
- 1 Snack : $3

Total : $33.99

For every family who's using the DDP to its full potential (TS at Epcot restaurants, CS at Pepper Market) I bet that there is a family who wastes credits on breakfasts and cheap CS.

IMO there's a reason why Disney refuses to simply put a daily cap on the value of the DDP, the last thing they want is for the majority of guests to know how much they can get out of it.

Just in the interest of full disclosure, there's 6% tax to be included up there too. Still might not work out to the full charge of the dining plan, but closer.

 

[marivaid]

I'll ask again ........... from either of you.

I don't understand ???
Can you explain more !

The way I understand it.. he (she?) means that they'll be paying $70 a day for the Deluxe DDP (which includes 3 TS) and that since lunch will cost them about $70, the other 2 meals will be free, except for the tip.

One thing I don't get though is how you can spend $70 on lunch PER PERSON anywhere in WDW in a 1TS restaurant. Even the most expensive options at Le Cellier don't add up to $70 - especially since alcoholic drinks aren't included. And you're not going to have lunch at Le Cellier everyday.

 

[bicker]

Someone in the Codes and Rates forum just said that when she was booking her trip yesterday the CM on the phone told her she'd be able to get an appetizer instead of a dessert if she wanted. Has anyone else been told this? I'm not big into dessert but I love the appetizers....that change was my only disappointment in the DDP.

Don't count on it unless you have it in writing on Disney letterhead.

 

[Lewisc]

Read the followup posts. The poster was also including the $13 for the refillable mug ($70-13). Most lunches don't cost $57 and you get one mug per stay not one mug per day.

I suspect many of the deluxe plan guests will be using two credits for dinner and having a TS breakfast or lunch.

The way I understand it.. he (she?) means that they'll be paying $70 a day for the Deluxe DDP (which includes 3 TS) and that since lunch will cost them about $70, the other 2 meals will be free, except for the tip.

One thing I don't get though is how you can spend $70 on lunch PER PERSON anywhere in WDW in a 1TS restaurant. Even the most expensive options at Le Cellier don't add up to $70 - especially since alcoholic drinks aren't included. And you're not going to have lunch at Le Cellier everyday.

 

[pilferk]

Had the tip never been included, it would be a non-issue. But because the tip has been included for the past 3 years, people have gotten used to not having to add it to their bill. I fear there will be a lot of people who will either not tip because they don't realize the tip no longer included, or not tip because they didn't realize the tip was no longer included when they purchased the plan, and now they're angry because they feel like they've been ripped off.

Just a couple points:

1) I called yesterday to add the DDP to our Jan '08 DVC ressie. The person at members services was very emphatic, very clear, and very prompt in pointing out the changes in the DDP...INCLUDING the fact it would no longer include gratuity. That won't stop everyone (on-line booking, especially) from not getting the message about the changes, but it should minimize the damage/excuse from many. I'm also not sure CRO will do the same thing, but I'd think that's the plan.

2) The reports are that a tip card and/or reminder on the bill will tell you that tips were NOT included with your DDP plan and offer some suggested tip amounts based on your bill. So they should be reminded, if they've forgotten, when they eat.

I remain unconvinced we'll see a higher % of DDP users, over OOP patrons, who will not tip. We'll see.

Now, whether the servers will just adopt the PERCEPTION that DDP users will stiff them, or tip less than OOP patrons, or whatever....because of either rumors to that effect, leaps of logic to that effect, or because they're unhappy with the changes to their contract by Disney and the union: That, I don't know, and don't really have a firm opinion on. I can certainly see the argument where that would be the case.

 

[bicker]

....because of either rumors to that effect, leaps of logic to that effect, or because they're unhappy with the changes to their contract by the union: That, I don't know, and don't really have a firm opinion on. I can certainly see that being the case.

Indeed. That works on many levels. I've noticed that the more someone is concerned about getting bad service, the more likely that person actually does end up getting bad service.

 

[marivaid]

Read the followup posts. The poster was also including the $13 for the refillable mug ($70-13). Most lunches don't cost $57 and you get one mug per stay not one mug per day.

That's true as well... so, we do agree on the fact that it doesn't add up and that his signature dinner will cost him quite a bit more than just the 20% tip?

 

[Lewisc]

I suspect many DDP guests will wind up tipping buffet servers less then 18%. There was a recent thread regarding the appropriate tip level for buffet servers and 10% was much repeated number. I suspect tips may be lower during any free dining promotion Disney runs during 2008.

Disney and the union projects that the automatic gratuity for groups of 6 or more and the automatic gratuity for DDE discounted checks will be enough to compensation for reduced tips by DDP customers.

Just a couple points:

Now, whether the servers will just adopt the PERCEPTION that DDP users will stiff them, or tip less than OOP patrons, or whatever....because of either rumors to that effect, leaps of logic to that effect, or because they're unhappy with the changes to their contract by Disney and the union: That, I don't know, and don't really have a firm opinion on. I can certainly see that being the case.

 

[marivaid]

Now, whether the servers will just adopt the PERCEPTION that DDP users will stiff them, or tip less than OOP patrons, or whatever....because of either rumors to that effect, leaps of logic to that effect, or because they're unhappy with the changes to their contract by Disney and the union: That, I don't know, and don't really have a firm opinion on. I can certainly see the argument where that would be the case.

And don't forget the number of guests who will decide that they got substandard service only because they were/were not on the DDP... neglecting to consider the possibility that they simply got a substandard server.

 

[pilferk]

Indeed. That works on many levels. I've noticed that the more someone is concerned about getting bad service, the more likely that person actually does end up getting bad service.

Human nature would indicate it's pretty much true of anything. Go into just about any expereince stuck with a negative attitude or preconception and it's likely to influence your perception of that experience.

 

[Lewisc]

That's true as well... so, we do agree on the fact that it doesn't add up and that his signature dinner will cost him quite a bit more than just the 20% tip?

Of course.

I guess if you're looking at a one night dining plan, not even sure if you can just buy it for one night,assume $22 for two snacks and one mug, you might be able to almost cover the rest of the cost of the plan with lunch. Remember the deluxe plan includes an appetizer.

Do you want to play with the numbers? Assume a guest uses the plan for an early lunch, an early dinner and a second dinner at restaurant closing time.

 

[pilferk]

I suspect many DDP guests will wind up tipping buffet servers less then 18%. There was a recent thread regarding the appropriate tip level for buffet servers and 10% was much repeated number. I suspect tips may be lower during any free dining promotion Disney runs during 2008.

Disney and the union projects that the automatic gratuity for groups of 6 or more and the automatic gratuity for DDE discounted checks will be enough to compensation for reduced tips by DDP customers.

Given the "tipping guidelines" I've seen, the numbers quoted in that thread are in line with what standard practice is. So, again, compared to OOP patrons...as long as DDP users "pull their weight" in comparison to OOP, I can't see servers taking issue. Yes, buffet staff may see a reduction in tips compared to what they're getting now. That's Disney's "fault" for artificially inflating their tips above standard practice for the past few years. And, IMHO, it's not the consumer's responsibility to "make up" by tipping above standard guidlines simply because Disney and the union agreed to a change. Again, maybe that won't be the perception....who knows.

You're also assuming, with these changes, Disney does free DDP again. I know, from a pure financial analysis, it's not real compelling, because the room discounts available now outweigh the cost of the free DDP in many/most cases. We'll have to wait and see.

It wouldn't surprise me if the DDE and group reduction offsets the auto tips from DDP. Alternately, based on the volume DDP does/did, it wouldn't surprise me otherwise.