13 yr old grounded for life-20 months later~post 258!!

[kmp1191]

I talked to his Taekwondo instructor...I told him I didn't know if DS would be able to continue and I told him why. He said that he would talk to him after class...as a friend. He also said that he would be harder on him than normal tonight in class....really make him sweat. He really liked the idea of paying off the debt with sweat, but also making sure he understood the consequesces (sp?)...ie-jail.
I'm going to talk to DH again when he gets home....and we've both calmed down a bit...maybe a tour is in order.....I think it is...but DH doesn't agree.

My head is killing me and I have 82 loads of laundry to get done.
I'll let ya'll know how it's going tomorrow. I have to think of something else for a while....this is killing me.

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and support...I honestly think I would have lost it alot sooner if it hadn't been for ya'll!

love ya'll!
marie

 

[richmond282]

Read the other posts about the 15YO having sex and you wont feel so bad.

While I don't think 15YO should be having sex, that's not a misdemeanor...

 

[clh2]

My head is killing me and I have 82 loads of laundry to get done.

Hey - wait a minute here...WHO has 82 loads of laundry to get done? Sit down, get the wine,the rum, or whatever is left in your house and sit down and relax. I would let your DS get started on the laundry

 

[TLSnell1981]

I talked to his Taekwondo instructor...I told him I didn't know if DS would be able to continue and I told him why. He said that he would talk to him after class...as a friend. He also said that he would be harder on him than normal tonight in class....really make him sweat. He really liked the idea of paying off the debt with sweat, but also making sure he understood the consequesces (sp?)...ie-jail.
I'm going to talk to DH again when he gets home....and we've both calmed down a bit...maybe a tour is in order.....I think it is...but DH doesn't agree.

My head is killing me and I have 82 loads of laundry to get done.
I'll let ya'll know how it's going tomorrow. I have to think of something else for a while....this is killing me.

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and support...I honestly think I would have lost it alot sooner if it hadn't been for ya'll!

love ya'll!
marie

Don't use all of your tools at once. Take it step by step. You are doing the right things. I'd save the tour...as my next to last resort. If you use them all up at once....you'll run out of ammo.

 

[Kim in TN]

Just wanted to offer my hugs. My heart aches for the pain your posts make so obvious.

 

[Pixie Dust for Me!]

OP, I am so very sorry you are going through this. I'm sure you know that we all do the very best we can for our children and (judging by how you have handled this) your son is very lucky to have you.

I second (or third) the idea of having him see a counselor! Call around and get some recommendations. Talk with his guidance counselor at school for a referral.

I'd strongly encourage you to check with anyone he has spent significant amounts of time with to make sure they are not "missing" anything and agree you should check all your credit cards for "unauthorized" charges.

Clearly something is wrong in your child's life and you will likely not be able to solve this alone. I'm not sure that "shock therapy" (exposing him to jail) will help. I do think that having him go to Walgreens and other places and tell the person he stole from what he did is probably a good idea. Please talk with a counselor though. It's amazing what good ideas they come up with.

Now...if you want rocks moved, my dad has 3 acres of land with rocks on it in Southern Illinois that need to be moved...oh yea and most of it involves walking up about 1/2 a mountain!

Hang in there...we're all here for you!

K

 

[Sandy321]

Don't use all of your tools at once. Take it step by step. You are doing the right things. I'd save the tour...as my next to last resort. If you use them all up at once....you'll run out of ammo.

ITA with others, you have a handle on this, you are giving your ds hugs and telling him you love him, he has agreed to the punishment - IF he said "make me" (with one of hte punishments, I like that you are trying to do community service thru your church, I hope it works out, the way that you and your son get active in giving back - that will show him so very much, you will be leading by example - please continue to try and keep those lines of communication open!!)

I could just so hear my dd 12 when I wanted to get to church the "I dont want to go, you cant make me' same with homework - its a battle... and we have to be ready with consequences... "yes dd, you are right I cant make you , however the consequences will be.... " (and homeschooling is top on the list hte dd is too smart for her own good!!)

Dont over react. You are reacting, and you are standing up for your son... continue to communicate that, but surely in your heart you know he is a "good kid' that did a very "bad thing"!!

 

[marciemi]

While I don't think 15YO should be having sex, that's not a misdemeanor...

Um...I'm pretty sure it is, at least since (as I read it), her BF is 16. If not more than a misdemeanor!

 

[DisneyKT]

OP I just finished reading more about your son. I am so sorry this is happening. I agree with the other people to strip his room of everything just leave a bed, sheet, pillow. Nothing else. Take off the door. Also talk to someone counselor, priest ,etc.

I hope everything gets better for you and your family.

 

[kmp1191]

Hey~
I'm calm now. My head is still hurting, but it will stop....and I got 67 loads of laundry done...folded and put away also.
Like I said ealier, I talked to the Taekwondo instructor (C). My DS has a lot of respect for him, and knows that he means business. They talked for about 35 minutes after class. C called me when they got done and told me that DS basically admitted that he wanted to be the one that had the stuff. C called it peer acceptance. Not pressure to do something, but being accepted for having something...showing off. Kinda funny how that turned out for him, huh? He told DS that the best thing for him to do from here on out is to cross his t's and dot his i's. Don't mouth off, don't give attitude, go above and beyond. Don't wait to be told something to do, take it upon himself to do it. He even told him that he had better be smiling while he's shoveling horse poop! The one thing that really got through to DS was when C told him that I had every right to press charges against him and that he wouldn't be sitting in a dorm room with some frat boys....he told him what he could expect at juvie hall. (I guess it made him flinch!) It was kinda funny~C told me to let him know if DS gave me any attitude or backtalk....he said he would take the opportunity to spar with him for then entire hour class!! (basically knock the crap out of him legally...and with pads!!) (i had to snicker....might not be a bad idea!)
Oh...i forgot to tell ya'll....Taekwondo instructor C has his degree in child psychology and education...he and his wife both. That's another reason I talked to him.

I agree with TLSnell~I'm glad I didn't have him taken downtown....just in case there is a next time....which there had better not be!!
clh2~that cracked me up! i'm out of rum, and not in the mood for wine! it was either do laundry or kick the dog....and I love my dog!!
Pixie Dust for me....tell your dad to let the rocks sit a while....time will tell!
Maybe after he's done shoveling frozen moose poop rocks, he'll hit S. Illinois and help him out!!

Thanks again everyone....I'm going to survive another day thanks to you guys! Oh, and TLSnell~I look forward to hearing from you later this week...and I'm sure DS is looking forward to working for you!! Fate, karma...whatever!

When DS got home, he gave me a hug and kiss and told me he was sorry and that he loved me.
Tomorrow will be a better day for everyone....if not....then I'll be stopping on the way home with a fresh bottle of rum!

love ya'll!
marie

 

[TLSnell1981]

When DS got home, he gave me a hug and kiss and told me he was sorry and that he loved me.
Tomorrow will be a better day for everyone....if not....then I'll be stopping on the way home with a fresh bottle of rum!

love ya'll!
marie

​

 

[WDSearcher]

I would play it that your neice reported the games stolen, and pretend that once she found out she contacted the local police. You will have to play your role. But if done right, it should get the point across to him.

Honestly you want something like this to scar him for life. You want him to remember forever what happens if you break the law.

If you go this route, be sure to CALL YOUR NEICE FIRST and be sure you hear her side. She may have had the games on a "give-away" pile and told him he could have them. She could have duplicates. There could be a nuance there that you're missing simply because your son is probably scared to death to try and explain anything to you right now because he knows he's already in trouble.

And be careful about "playing it that your neice reported the games stolen and pretend that once she found out she contacted the local police." Because then you're basically fighting his stealing behavior by lying. And that will come back to bite you at some point. You're basically saying, "It's okay for me to lie to get what I want, but you can't." Slippery slope, that.

 

[Pixie Dust for Me!]

Good morning Marie,

Here's hoping for a better day!

I'm not a child psychologist but I used to run a summer camp program for single moms and their kids (up to 17 years old). The number one challenge that I saw in girls 10 and up was self esteem issues and a complete lack of confidence. The number one challenge in boys...self esteem issues and a lack of confidence starting at about age 12!

From what you relayed of your conversation with the instructor, it sounds like your son needs to have "stuff" to feel he matches up against his peers -- in other words self esteem issues and a lack of confidence! While that does NOT excuse his behavior at all, it sure explains a lot.

So, here's my 2 cents...yes, he needs to shovel horse manure, move rocks and any other kind of physical labor you can think of. He also needs to see a counselor who can help him understand that his lack of confidence is all part of growing up. In my time they called it the "gawky" years -- where none of your body parts quite matched and you were clumsy as heck and just felt completely weird and out of place.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was from my great-grandmother (who I adored). She always told me that I have to love myself and treat myself they way I wanted others to treat me and that failing to do so meant that I gave everyone else permission to treat me poorly. As I kid I didn't get what she meant...but as an adult, I sure understand it!

Now, here's my encouragement for the day -- you caught this when your kiddo was still young and you understand why he is doing it -- which means its fixable!

So....in the words of Dory...just keep swimming!

Hugs to you...

K

 

[RUDisney]

Obviously, he doesn't think it was a major deal, since he set his own possible punishment so low. But I would think getting to the root of why he thought it was okay to do this would be paramount in solving the problem. Just don't get so caught up in designing the perfect punishment that you forget to find out WHY the crime occured in the first place. People always forget that part.

When my DS stole from us this summer, we asked him to write out what he thought his punishment should be. Instead of saying he should be grounded for X amount of time, he said he'd only be able to hang out with his friends from 10:30 a.m. until 8:00 p.m. DH and I laughed at him uncontrollably and then started to tell him our brand of punishment. Quite different from his ideas. I think he set the bar so low because he'd never done anything so egregious before and his punishments involved a day or two of grounding and/or losing the computer for a week. This new crime, however, did not fit the old mold and the consequences had to be greater.

As to the why my DS stole money from us, he said that he found it and didn't know whose it was. The fact that it was hidden and locked up didn't give him a clue that it was ours and not his for the taking? Hmmpht. Then he said that because there was a lot of money, he didn't think we'd notice that anything was missing. I guess he didn't think his father or I could count. He claims that he wouldn't have taken it if we told him that it was there and not to take it. I reminded him that I don't snoop through his things and he shouldn't be going through our things either.

I know what you mean, but honestly, I suspect he did it because he wanted those songs and was naive enough to think he could get away with it. And, as far as setting his punishment so low, I think he was looking after his own interests there. Very few "criminals" are really going to choose to set an appropriate punishment. JMHO though.

He asked me this morning why he had to do manual labor as punishment instead of just losing the items.

We explained our DS's manual labor in terms of knowing how hard it is to earn money. Not everyone can go to an office and come home clean at the end of the day. We told him that he needed to understand that he'd be lucky to get a job like his uncles were giving to him (sans pay) if he went to prison. All of his goals and ambitions would be history.

His Dad explained that he used to work for his uncle (DS's great-uncle who owns the junkyard in which DS is doing his community service hours) when he was a teenager and that work taught him that he wanted to stay in school so he could get a good job where he wouldn't be filthy at the end of the day and he wouldn't have to work so physically hard when he was 40-50-60 years old. We want DS to learn that same lesson.

Also, why is it that Mom's cry in the shower?

Don't cry in the shower. Cry in front of your DS. It'll kill him that he's making his mother cry. It was very effective in getting my point across to my DS, especially since I'm not someone who cries a lot. It showed him physically how upset I was with him.

Ok....I've lost it! Yep....I'm sitting here crying right now.
I also found 3 gift cards in his drawer....2 iTUNES and one Gamestop.
"Where'd you get these son?"
"Found them in the street a few weeks ago"
"Why should I believe you now? I'm going to ask you exactly one more time...from what store did you steal these from?"
"Walgreens"

Dear god....what the hell am I doing wrong?

I broke open the wrath of mom on him. Told him that it would be a cold day in hell when I'd believe a word out of his mouth and an even colder day when he'd be allowed to do ANYTHING!! I asked him why....no answer. I told him that I at least deserved an answer as to why he is stealing when he has more than most kids his age. Still no answer. I told him to get the hell away from me before I hit him so hard he'd not see straight for a month!

This is what I couldn't understand about my DS. We have more than most of his friends. He wanted to show off to them by always having a stash of cash in his pocket. Now, however, his friends know that he stole the money from us and they know that he's grounded for a long time. At first they didn't believe that we were grounding him for so long. After a few days of confirming that he was not allowed to hang out with them, they finally understood that we meant business.

On another note, a friend of ours recommended a military school tour. His parents took him to one in the summer when he started acting up as a teenager. He said seeing the cadets in wool uniforms in the summer convinced him to stay on the straight and narrow. The problem with our DS is that he wants to go to West Point when he's older. He'd like to go to Valley Forge Military Academy right now if we'd let him. So, that won't work on our DS. Explaining that the military academies don't take criminals seemed to make an impression on him.

Our DS participated in a Camp Cadet program this summer that was run by the PA State Police. It was run military style for one week with wakeup at 0600 and lights out at 2200. Every minute of the day was planned for them. It's something to check out for your DS if your state police run a similar program.

You did the right thing by having his T instructor speak with him, especially since he's a child counselor. Better to know now that your DS needs help and gets it than to wait and have him get into bigger crimes.

Here is another for you.

 

[Briarmom]

I just read through your whole thread and I just wanted to offer you hugs and support.

 

[KATHINOWA]

OP: I have read your posts and as the mother of an almost 13 yo ds I am sorry for what you are going through. Your son is incredibly lucky to have a loving mother. You have handled this situation with grace, love and support. I think you have handled it better than most would in your situation. Stay strong. You are doing the right thing for your son and yoru family.

 

[Rence]

My thoughts: He does have a theft problem – as you have evidence of multiple thefts, strong action must be taken.

With the DS games – the games from the niece, go back to the niece. The games that were given to him, need to be verified. He needs to tell you who gave them to him, and you need to talk to the friend and the friend’s parents and verify that they were in fact “given” to him. If not, the DS games go back to the friend.

The gift cards from Walgreens – I would take him to Walgreens and have him speak to the manager. The cards have no value as they aren’t activated, but it still was theft. You may want to call and speak to the manager ahead of time, so that you and the manager can agree on how you want this handled.

I would then give him one chance to fess up about anything else that has been taken with out permission. Anything shoplifted etc. I would encourage him to tell you about things that were “given” to him by friends that may not have really been “given” to him. Give him a day or two to think about anything he should report. Let him know that things are bad, but you want to trust him and that this is a way he can start to regain your trust – but that if things surface later that he hasn’t told you about – it is gonna be bad.

Then I would do a very thorough job of going through his room when he is not home. He has lost all rights of privacy. Search everywhere. Under the mattress, remove all drawers, look to see if anything it taped under drawers, behind drawers. Pull out furniture to see if anything is hidden behind. Open everything – items can be hidden in a Monopoly box, pants pockets etc. I would scour every last inch of that room. Anything that you can’t account for, anything you aren’t sure of how he obtained it – goes in a box. You then sit down and go item by item with your son and make sure that everything can be explained. Explain that you are only doing this because of the serious breach of trust that has taken place. That you don’t want to go through his things, but you need to do this so that you can regain trust.

I would also remove items from the room that are related to the thefts. The DS needs to be taken away for now etc. He can work to earn these items back. It might be a good idea to largely declutter his room so that you can account for what is in his room, he’s becoming a teen so get rid of the old toys etc.

New rule goes into effect – anything that he buys, gets from a friend etc. must be reported to you. So if a friend wants to give him a CD, that’s fine, he just has to show it to you and tell you about it. Things cannot just appear in his room. This rule probably needs to remain indefinitely.

He lost the lock on his room, but I would also have rules about him keeping the door open for now. The door can be closed when he is changing clothes, otherwise for now, it stays open.

Now I would start to undo “some” of these things rather quickly. Let’s say that he has towed the line for a week. Well then I might give him one thing back, or let him close his door for a bit or something. Just so that he sees that he can regain what is lost. And I would gradually continue to do this over time. Let him see that if he is honest, that trust can be regained.

 

[kmp1191]

Well....I went to bed at about 2 and woke up around 5...so yeah....I'm in a peach of a mood!
This morning I checked DS's grades on line....yep, not turning stuff in, not doing all the work, not writing down assignments...typical 13 yr old stuff! I sent e-mails to all the teachers asking them to sign his agenda book daily and they all responded with "We'd be glad to!" I love teachers!!
Tonight all of a sudden~he has homework!!! (yes, I ask him every day and every day he got it done at school! He's getting B's & C's & 1 F. )
So...tonight after school, DS and I are sitting at the table, he's doing homework, I'm paying bills, and he says...."I'm really sorry about all the crap I did." I told him I knew he was sorry, and that I still loved him. I also told him that I knew that he was a good, smart kid and that I also knew that he would never do something like this again. He started crying. I also told him that the punishment would stand for the next 6 weeks and that he would be able to earn back the trust eventually, along with SOME of the things that were taken.
Now then...if his 9 year old sister doesn't stop with the back-talk and attitude, she's gonna be mucking the stalls with her brother!!

Thanks again everyone....I'll keep you updated as we go through with the punishment. A friend of mine actually said to take pictures and do a scrapbook page or 2 of it. I don't think this is really a scrapbook moment....but that doesn't mean I won't take pictures!!!

love ya!
marie

 

[RUDisney]

I was reading the paper at lunchtime and there was an article about a bank employee who stole $350,000 from customers' CDs. Of course the bank ate the cost of repaying the customers, but this woman only got 1-year in jail and she has to repay the money to the bank.

I laughed out loud. 1-year and then 5-years probation after that. I think we need some DISer judges because we'd be handing out far stricter sentences than what this lady got.

I think we're all far more creative and punitive than that judge was.

Marie, get some sleep tonight. My DS was blowing off homework last year. Since he can't watch much TV or do much of anything else other than work around the house, he has been studying this year and has gotten primarily 100s with some high 90s scattered here and there. This is up from the high 80s he was getting last year. He's actually psyched about it. He's promised to keep up this behavior after his punishment is over. My DS is in 7th grade and he wants to go to a prep school for HS. He knows that he has to keep his grades up in order to do that, so he has the time and a goal. Your DS certainly has enough time now to pull up his grades, especially the F.

 

[famofsix]

Well....I went to bed at about 2 and woke up around 5...so yeah....I'm in a peach of a mood!
This morning I checked DS's grades on line....yep, not turning stuff in, not doing all the work, not writing down assignments...typical 13 yr old stuff! I sent e-mails to all the teachers asking them to sign his agenda book daily and they all responded with "We'd be glad to!" I love teachers!!
Tonight all of a sudden~he has homework!!! (yes, I ask him every day and every day he got it done at school! He's getting B's & C's & 1 F. )
So...tonight after school, DS and I are sitting at the table, he's doing homework, I'm paying bills, and he says...."I'm really sorry about all the crap I did." I told him I knew he was sorry, and that I still loved him. I also told him that I knew that he was a good, smart kid and that I also knew that he would never do something like this again. He started crying. I also told him that the punishment would stand for the next 6 weeks and that he would be able to earn back the trust eventually, along with SOME of the things that were taken.
Now then...if his 9 year old sister doesn't stop with the back-talk and attitude, she's gonna be mucking the stalls with her brother!!

Thanks again everyone....I'll keep you updated as we go through with the punishment. A friend of mine actually said to take pictures and do a scrapbook page or 2 of it. I don't think this is really a scrapbook moment....but that doesn't mean I won't take pictures!!!

love ya!
marie

I am glad he apologized and that he now knows who he's messing with and that you DH and his T instructor are on to him. It is really good that you caught this behavior NOW instead of finding it out later if he continued stealing and got caught by a cop (other than your DH)