13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[DisneyJamieCA]

I don't think there is anybody who would think badly of the parents opening an investigation into what happened had they not turned into a three ring circus. As I've said numerous times, there is not enough public information for me to make even a guess at who's at fault or if it was just an unfortunate complication. However the family being unwilling to allow the hospital to talk DOES throw up red flags to me. Honestly, there is a good chance the hospital has, and would have always, opened an internal investigation into why she died.

I don't know if it was the Pierce Morgan interview or an article I read but the lawyer is quoted as saying she was a sick little girl prior to the surgery (in context to the hospital letting her deteriorate post Dec 12). I wonder if it just in reference to her needing the surgery or if there were other underlying issues.

 

[Lisa_C]

Following this closely. My daughter had a very similar, if not the same, op here in the UK. She DID have a severe history of sleep apnea, which is why the surgery was required. She was just 5 when it took place.
The conditions were that a HDU place was available for her recovery. Children with sleep apnea need a different approach to anesthetic and a specialist needs to administer the drug. We found this out 5 minutes before she was put under. She was in a normal hospital and on checking her notes, had a case meeting and the anethetist decided he wasn't capable of looking after her and stopped the op. They also "forgot" she needed a bed in ICU incase anything went wrong. But I was calm about this (others flipped out) even though his words were "if I go ahead I could possibly loose her and she would die". You just don't take it in.
After a referral she went to a top children's hospital in London. I was allowed to be with her before surgery, take her to theatre and was there for the administering of the drug used. I was there in recovery, she woke, spoke and was allowed to drink there and then. On the ward she ate 3 rounds of toast. So to be honest, I don't think food or drink played a part in this.
Could there possibly be a hospital malpractice case? Maybe, after my 1st experience I would have said yes. No one consulted each other when my daughter was originally assessed, but the fact that they had the bed ready for Jahi as I would have accepted, suggests to me they were prepared for afterwards.
I was warned there could be bleeding after, and if it happened, to take my daughter to A&E if it didn't stop after a few minutes. Could this have been similar bleeding to what Jahi had, but on a grand scale as to loose enough blood to cause her death (my Dad lost blood on Christmas day and was told any more/later he'd have been dead)?
I personally don't think I'd have gone as crazy as this family have. You think you'd break down and all hell will break loose, but after the way I reacted I think I'd be more numb and also not be able to recognise my child had gone. But deep down I'd KNOW it. Living with the guilt that you signed your own kids dwath warrant by sanctioning the operation would however, drive me to act a little crazy, but towards myself.
To sum up, there are risks in all surgery. Even if this little girl had underlay health problems (she has to have these, as this is what the op was for, to stop them getying worse!) the danger to her life for NOT habing the op would far outweigh the surgery risks on paper. I was faced with a) do the op now to help her put on weight and cure her from her breathing stopping over 100 times in a sleep pattern b) leave it, and risk her having strokes in her 40's, heart disease and hight risk of vascular dementia in her 50's and an early death. It seemed and easy choice at the time!
I'm happy to report she is doing extremely well at school with high grades (on course for top 20% of the country and already way above the national average by a minimum of two years) and reading this makes me realise it could have been oh so different.
Just a Mum's perspective. And I would have turned the machine off.

 

[pigletgirl]

They gave her a hamburger??? I missed that!

It's been speculated that her family brought Jahi a hamburger and when she choked the family tried to suction her and she started to bleed.

THIS IS RUMORED!

 

[Lisa_C]

I really wish the media would quit saying it was "just a tonsillectomy". It was so much more than that. I've had the same procedure Jahi did and was told numerous times of the very real risks of the surgery and had to sign numerous sheets of paper saying I was aware of the side effects/risks of the surgery.

And yes, death was mentioned more than once as a risk.

Yes! You are told more than once. All surgery carries risk, but this op is particularly risky if not followed up properly.

 

[phorsenuf]

It's been speculated that her family brought Jahi a hamburger and when she choked the family tried to suction her and she started to bleed.

THIS IS RUMORED!

Yes, it is a rumor (which is why I said "if"). But at this point who knows if it could even be proven unless there was an eye witness.

 

[mnrose]

It's been speculated that her family brought Jahi a hamburger and when she choked the family tried to suction her and she started to bleed.

THIS IS RUMORED!

Definitely a rumor...but it was based on a post by a person who was supposedly the parent of another child in the PICU at the same time (and the PICU at CHO is one large room with curtained off areas. The post I saw says that while this parent was limited to ONE person at the bedside of the patient, the McMath family had a "crowd" in there and while nursing staff was escorting the "crowd" out mom and grandma gave her pieces of a Big Mac, which is when the bleeding started.

Whether this is true is hard to say. But, there certainly WERE other parents in the PICU when this happened, and there would be people who saw or overheard things other than nursing staff.

 

[luvsJack]

Yes, but as whose hand? If the reports are true on how the parents were, post-op, in giving her a hamburger and having her talk and laugh (which was not suppose to happen), then was it their actions that caused the bleeding and subsequent events. Or was it negligence on the hospitals part (having her bleed into a bucket and having the parents suction her)? Truthfully, I find the latter much harder to believe. I guess that is why I would hate to see them settle because the truth will never come out.

That is a big IF.

How do you see it as harder to believe? Things happen. Hospitals are run by and staffed by humans; they make mistakes, use the wrong judgement and all the things that most humans do. Doesn't make them bad, doesn't make them incapable of doing their job, just human.

If they did give her a hamburger, maybe its guilt that is feeding this, not the want for monetary gain.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

They gave her a hamburger??? I missed that!

This is a rumor. At one of the news sites, someone posted a comment that he/she was the parent of another child who was in the PICU on the day Jahi had surgery, and that this parent observed Jahi's family encouraging her to talk and laugh and that they fed her a cheeseburger. The rumor has never been discussed by any reputable media outlet.

I saw many of the documents filed in court. Some of the documents released to the public have been redacted to eliminate any discussion of the cause of Jahi's bleeding/heart attack. One exhibit was even placed under seal. So except for the family's statements, we don't know what happened in the PICU.

 

[mom2rtk]

I would have dismissed the hamburger rumor as ridiculous (I mean.... who would DO that????) if I hadn't seen the craziness this family is capable of since then. Now? I just don't know what to think. Except that the poor girl needs some peace and dignity.

Someone else mentioned upthread the younger sister. I hope she doesn't have any serious health issues. Because getting her to a doctor down the road is going to be very complicated. For oh so many reasons.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

And I said I didn't think it was frivolous. I was talking in general terms of so many other frivolous lawsuits that just get "settled". But, if any of the allegations of what the family did after the procedure are true (which I would think would come out during a lawsuit) then I do not believe the hospital should be held accountable. but, I suppose now after so much time has passed and the body is basically decomposing then I don't know how much an autopsy could reveal. Perhaps someone could enlighten us.

Now, if it deemed that the hospital was at fault then of course a lawsuit would be in order, no doubt about that one iota. But I would think if the case is just settled then no one will really know how this all happened and would prevent the hospital from possibly clearing their name and reputation after the mess.

I thought that the difference between PICU and the regular ward was that patients in PICU are supervised by medical staff, such as RN's, at all times. My son recently had a similar surgery, and although he wasn't in PICU in the recovery room he shared a nurse with only one other patient, and she was always very close by. I thought the PICU was similar. The family alleges that she was bleeding copiously and the RN gave them paper towels, and a bucket and left, even though they were asking for a doctor. To me that does sound like some kind of neglect. I agree that it's possible that they did something they shouldn't have done, like trying to suction her or positioning her in the wrong way or something, but if they did those things in the context of trying to solve a problem that the medical staff should have been solving, then I think it's quite possible that the hospital bears responsibility.

To be clear, it's possible that their description of the events is absolutely wrong. It's possible that they are misremembering because of the way your brain works in a crisis, and what they describe as 25 minutes was 2, or what they describe as the nurse leaving was the nurse walking to the hallway for a moment. It's also conceivable that they're lying. But to me, if their story turns out to be accurate, then I question the hospital's actions.

 

[Lisa_C]

That is a big IF.

How do you see it as harder to believe? Things happen. Hospitals are run by and staffed by humans; they make mistakes, use the wrong judgement and all the things that most humans do. Doesn't make them bad, doesn't make them incapable of doing their job, just human.

If they did give her a hamburger, maybe its guilt that is feeding this, not the want for monetary gain.

It would certainly be guilt in my books. They would have a need to blame someone rather than themselves and would not accept their own responsibility.

I would like to add though, that in my daughters case, they WANTED her to sit up (albeit propped up), eat and drink, and talk. You have to eat to prevent the wounds scabbing and becoming infected. A hamburger would just have made her sick if anything? You have to eat scratchy foods and be able to keep them down before they will discharge you over here after that kind of operation.

 

[JanaDee]

It would certainly be guilt in my books. They would have a need to blame someone rather than themselves and would not accept their own responsibility.

I would like to add though, that in my daughters case, they WANTED her to sit up (albeit propped up), eat and drink, and talk. You have to eat to prevent the wounds scabbing and becoming infected. A hamburger would just have made her sick if anything? You have to eat scratchy foods and be able to keep them down before they will discharge you over here after that kind of operation.

Yikes, really?! My mouth/throat was so sore, I couldn't even think of eating "sharp" food for over a week.

 

[RainbowBrite]

It would certainly be guilt in my books. They would have a need to blame someone rather than themselves and would not accept their own responsibility.

I would like to add though, that in my daughters case, they WANTED her to sit up (albeit propped up), eat and drink, and talk. You have to eat to prevent the wounds scabbing and becoming infected. A hamburger would just have made her sick if anything? You have to eat scratchy foods and be able to keep them down before they will discharge you over here after that kind of operation.

I find it really hard to believe they want you to eat a hamburger just minutes, maybe an hour, after that kind of surgery. Generally after you have just your tonsils removed you don't eat anything but popsicles at first.

 

[JanaDee]

In my case, they wanted my throat to scab up before I started eating solid foods (more protection for the surgical site). That doesn't happen in an hour. Mine took a few days.

 

[Procrastinate]

You have to eat scratchy foods and be able to keep them down before they will discharge you over here after that kind of operation.

That definitely did not happen in my son's case. I think the most solid thing they gave him was mashed potatoes, which he could not possibly swallow.

 

[Disney Doll]

While a UPPP may be a more major surgery than a T&A, it's not exactly open heart surgery. I found a study that said that the mortality rate in the 30 days after UPPP surgery is 0.2%, which includes any cause of death, so people who happen to have a heart attack during that period. The study was done based on people who received their surgery in veteran's hospitals, so perhaps a higher percentage of elderly patients as well. Jahi's parents had plenty of reason to expect that she would come out of the surgery alive and well.

My 14 year old just had a related surgery to what Jahi had, more work on his nose, less on his throat and just adenoids not tonsils. If he had died, I'd do exactly what LisaR said, raise hell. While I disagree with this family's choice to continue to keep their daughter on mechanical ventilation, I think they're well within their rights to pursue every possible answer about what happens. It's possible that nothing went wrong at that hospital, and it's possible that there were medical errors that contributed. They have a right to pursue those answers.

You're assuming that they don't know what happened.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I find it really hard to believe they want you to eat a hamburger just minutes, maybe an hour, after that kind of surgery. Generally after you have just your tonsils removed you don't eat anything but popsicles at first.

A popsicle is the only thing that has been actually reported that she ate.

The fact that people are running with this hamburger thing at this point is ridiculous. It came from the comments section of an article. There's nothing to say its true but people keep throwing it out there like it happened.

If Jahi was in picu woofing down a hamburger and a popsicle, where was the hospital staff? Wasn't anyone checking on her. This would have been right after she got there. After surgery it would've taken her a little time to eat those things. Didn't anyone notice?

You can't have it both ways. It can't be that she received proper care after and was able to eat these things without anyone noticing.

To be clear, I'm not saying the hospital definitely did anything wrong. It just seems silly to dismiss the idea that they could have while tossing out wild speculation on how her death was caused by something her family did.

 

[Lisa_C]

I find it really hard to believe they want you to eat a hamburger just minutes, maybe an hour, after that kind of surgery. Generally after you have just your tonsils removed you don't eat anything but popsicles at first.

I didn't say that exactly. They do want you to eat though, (of course not before you feel you are ready, but my daughter requested it about an hour after surgery and they let her have it). We don't give popsicles, patients are given a throat spray to numb the throat before eating and you are given toast as you more than like haven eaten for at least 12 hours, in some cases more :-/

 

[LisaR]

A popsicle is the only thing that has been actually reported that she ate.

The fact that people are running with this hamburger thing at this point is ridiculous. It came from the comments section of an article. There's nothing to say its true but people keep throwing it out there like it happened.

If Jahi was in picu woofing down a hamburger and a popsicle, where was the hospital staff? Wasn't anyone checking on her. This would have been right after she got there. After surgery it would've taken her a little time to eat those things. Didn't anyone notice?

You can't have it both ways. It can't be that she received proper care after and was able to eat these things without anyone noticing.

To be clear, I'm not saying the hospital definitely did anything wrong. It just seems silly to dismiss the idea that they could have while tossing out wild speculation on how her death was caused by something her family did.

 

[moon]

A popsicle is the only thing that has been actually reported that she ate.

The fact that people are running with this hamburger thing at this point is ridiculous. It came from the comments section of an article. There's nothing to say its true but people keep throwing it out there like it happened.

If Jahi was in picu woofing down a hamburger and a popsicle, where was the hospital staff? Wasn't anyone checking on her. This would have been right after she got there. After surgery it would've taken her a little time to eat those things. Didn't anyone notice?

You can't have it both ways. It can't be that she received proper care after and was able to eat these things without anyone noticing.

To be clear, I'm not saying the hospital definitely did anything wrong. It just seems silly to dismiss the idea that they could have while tossing out wild speculation on how her death was caused by something her family did.

That's a great, great point!