13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[lovetoscrap]

I keep wondering if the facility they moved her to really knew what they were getting in to. Did they really believe that maybe there was a chance the other 3-6 dr opinions were wrong and they would be receiving a child with a hope for life? Now that she is there hasn't someone realized "Crud, she really is dead!"

If her body is deteriorating as many say it may be at what point are they going refuse to continue this charade? If the heart keeps beating with the vent as she is decomposing with all of its smells and byproducts are they going to finally tell the family "look, she really is dead and there is no amount of ventilating and meds and fluids that are going to bring her back" How bad does it have to get?

 

[bcla]

I keep wondering if the facility they moved her to really knew what they were getting in to. Did they really believe that maybe there was a chance the other 3-6 dr opinions were wrong and they would be receiving a child with a hope for life? Now that she is there hasn't someone realized "Crud, she really is dead!"

If her body is deteriorating as many say it may be at what point are they going refuse to continue this charade? If the heart keeps beating with the vent as she is decomposing with all of its smells and byproducts are they going to finally tell the family "look, she really is dead and there is no amount of ventilating and meds and fluids that are going to bring her back" How bad does it have to get?

They also wanted a feeding tube. The situation could only get more disgusting if they placed food in a dead body that doesn't have a nervous system to control digestion. It would either back up, decompose internally, or perhaps even get spewed out; someone here described that happening with food from a feeding tube upon death due to involuntary nervous reactions without a functioning brain.

 

[*Fantasia*]

I know she's on vent.. but is she on IV too? I couldn't remember if anyone have mentioned this or not. Thanks.

 

[Tozzie]

I know she's on vent.. but is she on IV too? I couldn't remember if anyone have mentioned this or not. Thanks.

The reports when the judge declined to force the hospital to insert the breathing and feeding tubes that the body could be transported with the ventilator and iv lines in place.

If you think about it she would have to have an IV to pump all the medications in to keep the blood pressure up.

 

[*Fantasia*]

The reports when the judge declined to force the hospital to insert the breathing and feeding tubes that the body could be transported with the ventilator and iv lines in place.

If you think about it she would have to have an IV to pump all the medications in to keep the blood pressure up.

Thank you. I forgot about the medications she has to take to keep her "un-dead" for as long as they can.

 

[java]

There is a facility in NY that claims to the be the one that is taking her. In reading about that one, they are currently outpatient only. She would have been the first "in" patient.

But with them all over the news saying it was them, makes me think it's probably not them now. Because, unless the family requested it, I think they would be shouting from the rooftop that they had her.

Poor thing.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

CNN interview with Jahi's uncle:

"I'm just still praying that one day I'll be able to see her smile again"

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/20...t-one-day-ill-be-able-to-see-her-smile-again/

And from another article:

Sealey said his niece looks peaceful, like she’s sleeping, and he believes he saw her smile as she was leaving Children’s Hospital Oakland.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...n-dead-20140106,0,5200263.story#ixzz2po5uqReZ

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Christopher Dolan - lawyer, father

Jahi McMath: Streetfighting lawyer takes heat, death threats for brain-dead Oakland girl's family

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-co...treetfighting-lawyer-takes-heat-death-threats

 

[Disney Doll]

What a debacle. That poor child.

 

[Grammyof2]

I have been following on TV but just started skipping through this thread. Seems like most of you have followed closely.

I am confused about the following - she was prounced dead, a death certificate was issued and she was released to a coroner. Is this now abuse of a corpse? I am mostly concerned about the ramification of taking a corpse to a home or facility to decompose instead of a proper buriel.

Maybe I have missed a key component.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

I understand Dolan a little bit better now.He thought he was getting the next Terry Schiavo. He thought he was getting a legit right to life case.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I have been following on TV but just started skipping through this thread. Seems like most of you have followed closely.

I am confused about the following - she was prounced dead, a death certificate was issued and she was released to a coroner. Is this now abuse of a corpse? I am mostly concerned about the ramification of taking a corpse to a home or facility to decompose instead of a proper buriel.

Maybe I have missed a key component.

It is not abuse of a corpse in this case because it was court mandated. (My understanding from reading this morning was that the death certificate was issued just prior to the release of her body to the coroner the other day. She was then transferred to an undisclosed location.)

She will presumably have a regular burial once her heart stops beating. That's when her family will accept that she is "dead".

 

[rigs32]

The article says he wanted to help save their kid from being killed. After SIX doctors said she was already dead. He took the case for publicity, not altruism.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

And as predicted, Dolan is blaming the hospital for the "deterioration" of her body "because they didn't feed her". (Sorry, lost link.)

Also saw a bunch of articles going into detail about decomposition of bodies after brain death, including one citation of a 20 year old Harvard transplant study that looked at organs of people kept alive artificially after brain death. It's not pretty. Autopsies have shown the brain actually liquifies. Honestly, things can't be going well right now.

 

[Jessica14]

I think now Dolan is looking to get the $250,000 cap raised claiming that when a medical facility is in error, they have to kill the patient to avoid a big payout. I find that repulsive. Bad apples are everywhere, but really??? I just told my pediatrician that people need to get past thinking the medical profession is out to get them. She thanked me for saying that.

 

[disney1990]

I don't think it will work that way. I've noted that whatever costs that CHO has borne will either be covered by the family's insurer or directly by CHO through whatever indigent care funds they have. The hospital may deal with their insurer, but I doubt they bother to bill the family for any uncovered costs.

They had a settlement with CHO, and that included that her body had to be first transferred to the custody of the coroner. It also said that the family was solely responsible for Jahi McMath as soon as the body was transferred to them.

https://twitter.com/mgafni/status/419236734476378112/photo/1/large

That would seem to state that the hospital can't be sued for the cost of maintaining the body after the transfer. There's also a death certificate that states that the doctor's called it on Dec 12. It's really all on the family if they feel they need to keep a legally and physically deal body pumping with a respirator. I really don't believe money was the issue. I think the family believes that their faith is strong and that they're due a miracle because they feel that their faith is strong.

Not sued for maintaining the body, sued for negligence.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Dolan claims he took this case prop bono and that he will not be filing the med malpractice case.


The pleadings Dolan filed in both the state and federal court addressed only the issue of whether Jahi is dead or alive, who was entitled to make decisions regarding whether Jahi should receive medical treatment after 12/12 and where Jahi would be moved to.


There was a court ruling that Jahi is legally dead as of 12/12. The remaining issues were resolved by a stipulation of settlement.

Unless Dolan successfully appeals the ruling that Jahi was dead on 12/12, nothing that happened to Jahi's body after 12/12 would be actionable. That Jahi died on 12/12 would be considered res judicata in the med mal case. that would not preclude a suit by Jahi's parents for damages they allegedly sustained as a result of what happened to them after 12/12, hence the claims for violations of religious freedom and right to privacy.

It sounds crass, but cynical lawyers and insurers do acknowledge that it is less expensive to kill a child than it is to seriously injure that child. In a bodily injury case, economic damages include such things as past and future medical care, past and future lost wages and other expenses incurred as a result of the accident. With an adult, we can accurately estimate what their future wages would have been based on past earning capacity, but a child's wage earning capacity is speculative. With a living but severely injured child, the cost of future care can be considerable, but with a child who died there are no ongoing or future expenses.

Dolan and his ilk take this economic reality a step further, and determine that the cap on noneconomic damages/pain and suffering encourages hospitals to let children die. That's outrageous.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opin...40107,0,1598073.story?track=rss#axzz2pooqcW3L


According to bioethicists, this is typical. David Magnus, a bioethics professor at Stanford University, told me that judges dont want to be accused of killing someone, even when its clear the person is deceased. They also are used to allowing delays and deferring to higher courts. Thats not a pattern that goes well with the need to make decisions in life-or-death situations.

In this case, it was a death situation, and the body of a young girl is unfortunately having air forced into the lungs, and being given minerals, hormones and antibiotics, according to the family.

What Magnus suggests as a possible solution is to have the courts not drop such cases as moot once the patients heart has stopped and even the recalcitrant family admits that a loved one is dead. Instead, he said, it would be helpful for the courts to put the question through the legal appeals system so that in the future, judges have clear precedent to act rather than refraining from action.

In Jahis case, the courts backed away from deciding either way, which Magnus said is typical. They wouldnt let the ventilator be removed, but they also wouldnt require the hospital to insert a feeding tube, which the hospital said would be outside the boundaries of appropriate medical behavior.

 

[bcla]

Not sued for maintaining the body, sued for negligence.

Doesn't matter. The hospital got the coroner to issue a death certificate. In California the noneconomic (pain and suffering, loss of companionship, etc) damages are capped at $250,000 for medical malpractice. The economic damages would only be for any cost of care up to the point where she was declared dead. The hospital is likely going to eat all those costs for maintaining the body after death. She never worked, so no court is likely to award future earnings.

Whether or not the hospital was negligent, they can only be sued for medical malpractice, and I'm not even sure in a perfect world that they should. They did everything they could. Their medical knowledge told them that it would futile to try and feed a dead body. I'm guessing what they did to keep the body pumping was probably learned from experience keeping a dead body hooked up to a ventilator to help organ transplantation.

The hospital will probably settle - not because they did anything wrong but to get this over with.

 

[phorsenuf]

Doesn't matter. The hospital got the coroner to issue a death certificate. In California the noneconomic (pain and suffering, loss of companionship, etc) damages are capped at $250,000 for medical malpractice. The economic damages would only be for any cost of care up to the point where she was declared dead. The hospital is likely going to eat all those costs for maintaining the body after death. She never worked, so no court is likely to award future earnings.

Whether or not the hospital was negligent, they can only be sued for medical malpractice, and I'm not even sure in a perfect world that they should. They did everything they could. Their medical knowledge told them that it would futile to try and feed a dead body. I'm guessing what they did to keep the body pumping was probably learned from experience keeping a dead body hooked up to a ventilator to help organ transplantation.

The hospital will probably settle - not because they did anything wrong but to get this over with.

Honestly, I hope they don't. I hope they drag that family through the court system for years! If they settle it just opens the doors for others to follow. I think it's high time these businesses (hospitals, etc.) start making a stand so people will think twice about frivolous lawsuits. I'm not calling this situation frivolous, but hopefully it would make other think twice.
This family is beginning to disgust me and really question their motives.