13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[mom2rtk]

Honestly, I hope they don't. I hope they drag that family through the court system for years! If they settle it just opens the doors for others to follow. I think it's high time these businesses (hospitals, etc.) start making a stand so people will think twice about frivolous lawsuits. I'm not calling this situation frivolous, but hopefully it would make other think twice.
This family is beginning to disgust me and really question their motives.

I'm right there with you.

I think we're down to 1) Either every single member of the family is cuckoo or 2) They are using that girl's body to maximize their payoff. Either option looks pretty sad to me.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Doesn't matter. The hospital got the coroner to issue a death certificate. In California the noneconomic (pain and suffering, loss of companionship, etc) damages are capped at $250,000 for medical malpractice. The economic damages would only be for any cost of care up to the point where she was declared dead. The hospital is likely going to eat all those costs for maintaining the body after death. She never worked, so no court is likely to award future earnings.

Whether or not the hospital was negligent, they can only be sued for medical malpractice, and I'm not even sure in a perfect world that they should. They did everything they could. Their medical knowledge told them that it would futile to try and feed a dead body. I'm guessing what they did to keep the body pumping was probably learned from experience keeping a dead body hooked up to a ventilator to help organ transplantation.

The hospital will probably settle - not because they did anything wrong but to get this over with.

I think part of the problem here is that you are using "medical malpractice" and "negligence" as two separate concepts. Medical malpractice IS negligence, it is the failure of the medical professional to comply with the standard of care expected of medical professionals in treating a patient.


http://definitions.uslegal.com/m/medical-malpractice/



I agree with you, the hospital will probably settle, if they can, but not for reasons you suggest. The damage from bad publicity arising from this matter has already been done. the concern i would have, if I were defending the matter, is to set bad precedent for future cases. What happens with the next brain dead child?

Furthermore, as I posted earlier, this is not a high exposure case from an economic viewpoint. But the cost of defending this case could be considerable. Based on what I've seen from the court documents, I'd be looking to hire several experts -- a pediatric neurologist, a surgical specialist, a post-op nursing care specialist...and that's without knowing the hospital's version of what happened post op. I am very curious about the documents the court put under seal, the documents that discuss what happened in the ICU after surgery.

Settlement, of course, implies that at some point Jahi's family becomes reasonable and rational about this matter. Some plaintiffs are never realistic about the strengths and weaknesses of their claim. Some need to tell their story to the jury regardless of how much money is offered.

And a lot of doctors are reluctant to allow their insurers to settle cases (yes, their policies require that they consent to a settlement) because they want to protect their reputation. I've never handled medical malpractice claims, but I handled legal malpractice claims, and I've spent quite a bit of time arguing with insureds about why they need to settle a claim. Ultimately I think the medical providers in Jahi's case will agree to a reasonable settlement, but it's not going to be easy.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Honestly, I hope they don't. I hope they drag that family through the court system for years! If they settle it just opens the doors for others to follow. I think it's high time these businesses (hospitals, etc.) start making a stand so people will think twice about frivolous lawsuits. I'm not calling this situation frivolous, but hopefully it would make other think twice.
This family is beginning to disgust me and really question their motives.

What this family did after the child was declared brain dead is truly horrible.

Not every bad outcome is caused by medical malpractice.

But I would not call this case "frivolous" by any means. A 13 year old girl died as a result of a surgical procedure. the family alleges that the girl's distress post surgery was ignored by the hospital staff and that the treatment she received was sub par. I would want to know more, a lot more, before I dismissed their claims as "frivolous."

 

[LisaR]

Honestly, I hope they don't. I hope they drag that family through the court system for years! If they settle it just opens the doors for others to follow. I think it's high time these businesses (hospitals, etc.) start making a stand so people will think twice about frivolous lawsuits. I'm not calling this situation frivolous, but hopefully it would make other think twice.
This family is beginning to disgust me and really question their motives.

If my child went in for a T&A and came out dead, I have to tell you that I would launch an investigation like one has never seen before to get to the bottom of it all. If I concluded through that investigation that the hospital was even slightly negligent, I would sue them to ends of the earth and wouldn't settle for anything.

I am NOT saying the hospital is negligent. But when a child dies after fairly routine surgery, there needs to be a serious investigation. And I know some are saying this wasn't a routine surgery. I'm sorry, but hospitals operate on overweight people every single day of the year and they don't die. My son had a T&A and they took a large amount of extra tissue. While it might not be routine in a tonsillectomy, it certainly isn't rare. There are surgeries performed daily that are a hundred times more complicated than this surgery and the patient doesn't die. Again, I am not saying the hospital did anything wrong. This may have simply been one of those things, but as the parent of a child who died during surgery, you better believe I wouldn't let this one drop. Would any of you?

The thing is, I doubt there is a single person out there would let this drop if it was their child, but people hate this family so much right now, that they are automatically excusing the hospital. If this family had reacted like most of us say we would have on this thread (child is declared brain dead, parents remove life support, child passes and is buried) and then the family started an investigation, I can't imagine a single person wouldn't back them up. An investigation doesn't mean negligence will be found, but the family certainly has a right to find out why their 13 y/o is gone. Unfortunately, this has turned into a ginormous cluster **** and the family has lost support. That is really sad because it isn't common for a kid to die after tonsil surgery, but because of the circus surrounding this case, we will likely never find out what really happened.

 

[Darcy03231]

What this family did after the child was declared brain dead is truly horrible.

Not every bad outcome is caused by medical malpractice.

But I would not call this case "frivolous" by any means. A 13 year old girl died as a result of a surgical procedure. the family alleges that the girl's distress post surgery was ignored by the hospital staff and that the treatment she received was sub par. I would want to know more, a lot more, before I dismissed their claims as "frivolous."

I agree. We don't know the patient's medical history, whether she had any pre-existing conditions, what her health was before the surgery, whether the family's claim that she received substandard care is true (and given the mother's delusional behavior now it makes that statement suspect), and if this was just an unfortunate outcome of a routine surgery and the staff did everything right or if she did, in fact, receive substandard care or someone made a mistake during the surgery. Without all of the facts it's really hard to say whether it is malpractice or not. Even with all the facts it might be hard to decide one way or another.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

If my child went in for a T&A and came out dead, I have to tell you that I would launch an investigation like one has never seen before to get to the bottom of it all. If I concluded through that investigation that the hospital was even slightly negligent, I would sue them to ends of the earth and wouldn't settle for anything. I am NOT saying the hospital is negligent. But when a child dies after fairly routine surgery, there needs to be a serious investigation. And I know some are saying this wasn't a routine surgery. I'm sorry, but hospitals operate on overweight people every single day of the year and they don't die. My son had a T&A and they took a large amount of extra tissue. While it might not be routine in a tonsillectomy, it certainly isn't rare. There are surgeries performed daily that are a hundred times more complicated than this surgery and the patient doesn't die. Again, I am not saying the hospital did anything wrong. This may have simply been one of those things, but as the parent of a child who died during surgery, you better believe I wouldn't let this one drop. Would any of you? The thing is, I doubt there is a single person out there would let this drop if it was their child, but people hate this family so much right now, that they are automatically excusing the hospital. If this family had reacted like most of us say we would have on this thread (child is declared brain dead, parents remove life support, child passes and is buried) and then the family started an investigation, I can't imagine a single person wouldn't back them up. An investigation doesn't mean negligence will be found, but the family certainly has a right to find out why their 13 y/o is gone. Unfortunately, this has turned into a ginormous cluster **** and the family has lost support. That is really sad because it isn't common for a kid to die after tonsil surgery, but because of the circus surrounding this case, we will likely never find out what really happened.

Keep in mind this wasn't a routine T&A. There was also a UPPP where she had extensive work done to tissues in her nose and throat. It was much more complicated than a T&A, and more dangerous, which is why she was scheduled to go into the PICU after surgery.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Keep in mind this wasn't a routine T&A. There was also a UPPP where she had extensive work done to tissues in her nose and throat. It was much more complicated than a T&A, and more dangerous, which is why she was scheduled to go into the PICU after surgery.

While a UPPP may be a more major surgery than a T&A, it's not exactly open heart surgery. I found a study that said that the mortality rate in the 30 days after UPPP surgery is 0.2%, which includes any cause of death, so people who happen to have a heart attack during that period. The study was done based on people who received their surgery in veteran's hospitals, so perhaps a higher percentage of elderly patients as well. Jahi's parents had plenty of reason to expect that she would come out of the surgery alive and well.

My 14 year old just had a related surgery to what Jahi had, more work on his nose, less on his throat and just adenoids not tonsils. If he had died, I'd do exactly what LisaR said, raise hell. While I disagree with this family's choice to continue to keep their daughter on mechanical ventilation, I think they're well within their rights to pursue every possible answer about what happens. It's possible that nothing went wrong at that hospital, and it's possible that there were medical errors that contributed. They have a right to pursue those answers.

 

[phorsenuf]

What this family did after the child was declared brain dead is truly horrible.

Not every bad outcome is caused by medical malpractice.

But I would not call this case "frivolous" by any means. A 13 year old girl died as a result of a surgical procedure. the family alleges that the girl's distress post surgery was ignored by the hospital staff and that the treatment she received was sub par. I would want to know more, a lot more, before I dismissed their claims as "frivolous."

And I said I didn't think it was frivolous. I was talking in general terms of so many other frivolous lawsuits that just get "settled". But, if any of the allegations of what the family did after the procedure are true (which I would think would come out during a lawsuit) then I do not believe the hospital should be held accountable. but, I suppose now after so much time has passed and the body is basically decomposing then I don't know how much an autopsy could reveal. Perhaps someone could enlighten us.

Now, if it deemed that the hospital was at fault then of course a lawsuit would be in order, no doubt about that one iota. But I would think if the case is just settled then no one will really know how this all happened and would prevent the hospital from possibly clearing their name and reputation after the mess.

 

[LisaR]

Keep in mind this wasn't a routine T&A. There was also a UPPP where she had extensive work done to tissues in her nose and throat. It was much more complicated than a T&A, and more dangerous, which is why she was scheduled to go into the PICU after surgery.

So if this was your child, you wouldn't investigate? You would just say, "Oh well, it was a little more complicated than a routine T&A so I guess it just wasn't meant to be. Those twenty open heart surgeries they did today on overweight, extremely sick patients went well, but gosh, they had to take extra tissue from my kid's nose and throat so it makes total sense that she is dead now. I'll just bury her and move on." I find it hard to believe there is a single parent who wouldn't make damn sure someone didn't **** up this procedure. Her surgery wasn't textbook tonsil surgery. It also wasn't a rare, unique, or unheard of surgery. There is always a potential for complications which I why I have said the hospital may not have done anything wrong, but wouldn't you want to know for sure? Would you really write it off to being slightly more complicated and move on?

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

So if this was your child, you wouldn't investigate? You would just say, "Oh well, it was a little more complicated than a routine T&A so I guess it just wasn't meant to be. Those twenty open heart surgeries they did today on overweight, extremely sick patients went well, but gosh, they had to take extra tissue from my kid's nose and throat so it makes total sense that she is dead now. I'll just bury her and move on." I find it hard to believe there is a single parent who wouldn't make damn sure someone didn't **** up this procedure. Her surgery wasn't textbook tonsil surgery. It also wasn't a rare, unique, or unheard of surgery. There is always a potential for complications which I why I have said the hospital may not have done anything wrong, but wouldn't you want to know for sure? Would you really write it off to being slightly more complicated and move on?

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I never said I wouldn't investigate. I just said that the surgery wasn't as routine as it was being made out to be in some posts.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

And I said I didn't think it was frivolous. I was talking in general terms of so many other frivolous lawsuits that just get "settled". But, if any of the allegations of what the family did after the procedure are true (which I would think would come out during a lawsuit) then I do not believe the hospital should be held accountable. but, I suppose now after so much time has passed and the body is basically decomposing then I don't know how much an autopsy could reveal. Perhaps someone could enlighten us.

Now, if it deemed that the hospital was at fault then of course a lawsuit would be in order, no doubt about that one iota. But I would think if the case is just settled then no one will really know how this all happened and would prevent the hospital from possibly clearing their name and reputation after the mess.

The med mal case is not going to be a hot news story, and unless it proceeds to trial and we are treated by the media to every single moment of testimony, we're probably never going to know the whole story.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think that any one of us would have been amazingly supportive of the family's desire to move heaven and earth to find out what happened and make the hospital pay if they caused her death in some way. But it's just hard to believe anything coming out of their camp after seeing the way they themselves have treated this girl's body since the pronouncement of her death. I can see needing some time to come to grips. But I'm thinking we all agree this is far past that point.

I think for whatever odd reason, I'm just waiting for an announcement that this girl has been peacefully laid to rest (finally) then I don't want to hear another word about the entire thing. There will be no way to know whether the hospital, with much to lose, can be trusted..... or whether this family, who has chosen to surround themselves with vultures...... and has dollars to gain ......can be trusted.

 

[JanaDee]

If my child went in for a T&A and came out dead, I have to tell you that I would launch an investigation like one has never seen before to get to the bottom of it all. If I concluded through that investigation that the hospital was even slightly negligent, I would sue them to ends of the earth and wouldn't settle for anything.

I am NOT saying the hospital is negligent. But when a child dies after fairly routine surgery, there needs to be a serious investigation. And I know some are saying this wasn't a routine surgery. I'm sorry, but hospitals operate on overweight people every single day of the year and they don't die. My son had a T&A and they took a large amount of extra tissue. While it might not be routine in a tonsillectomy, it certainly isn't rare. There are surgeries performed daily that are a hundred times more complicated than this surgery and the patient doesn't die. Again, I am not saying the hospital did anything wrong. This may have simply been one of those things, but as the parent of a child who died during surgery, you better believe I wouldn't let this one drop. Would any of you?

The thing is, I doubt there is a single person out there would let this drop if it was their child, but people hate this family so much right now, that they are automatically excusing the hospital. If this family had reacted like most of us say we would have on this thread (child is declared brain dead, parents remove life support, child passes and is buried) and then the family started an investigation, I can't imagine a single person wouldn't back them up. An investigation doesn't mean negligence will be found, but the family certainly has a right to find out why their 13 y/o is gone. Unfortunately, this has turned into a ginormous cluster **** and the family has lost support. That is really sad because it isn't common for a kid to die after tonsil surgery, but because of the circus surrounding this case, we will likely never find out what really happened.

I really wish the media would quit saying it was "just a tonsillectomy". It was so much more than that. I've had the same procedure Jahi did and was told numerous times of the very real risks of the surgery and had to sign numerous sheets of paper saying I was aware of the side effects/risks of the surgery.

And yes, death was mentioned more than once as a risk.

 

[luvsJack]

If my child went in for a T&A and came out dead, I have to tell you that I would launch an investigation like one has never seen before to get to the bottom of it all. If I concluded through that investigation that the hospital was even slightly negligent, I would sue them to ends of the earth and wouldn't settle for anything.

I am NOT saying the hospital is negligent. But when a child dies after fairly routine surgery, there needs to be a serious investigation. And I know some are saying this wasn't a routine surgery. I'm sorry, but hospitals operate on overweight people every single day of the year and they don't die. My son had a T&A and they took a large amount of extra tissue. While it might not be routine in a tonsillectomy, it certainly isn't rare. There are surgeries performed daily that are a hundred times more complicated than this surgery and the patient doesn't die. Again, I am not saying the hospital did anything wrong. This may have simply been one of those things, but as the parent of a child who died during surgery, you better believe I wouldn't let this one drop. Would any of you?

The thing is, I doubt there is a single person out there would let this drop if it was their child, but people hate this family so much right now, that they are automatically excusing the hospital. If this family had reacted like most of us say we would have on this thread (child is declared brain dead, parents remove life support, child passes and is buried) and then the family started an investigation, I can't imagine a single person wouldn't back them up. An investigation doesn't mean negligence will be found, but the family certainly has a right to find out why their 13 y/o is gone. Unfortunately, this has turned into a ginormous cluster **** and the family has lost support. That is really sad because it isn't common for a kid to die after tonsil surgery, but because of the circus surrounding this case, we will likely never find out what really happened.

I agree with you completely.

Using a hospital's terminology of routine or complicated or whatever doesn't change the fact that it is done ALL THE TIME. I feel pretty sure that before the surgery when the nurses and dr were talking to this child's mother, she was reassured over and over. She was probably so sure her dd would be fine, and then she died.

 

[richmond282]

While a UPPP may be a more major surgery than a T&A, it's not exactly open heart surgery. I found a study that said that the mortality rate in the 30 days after UPPP surgery is 0.2%, which includes any cause of death, so people who happen to have a heart attack during that period. The study was done based on people who received their surgery in veteran's hospitals, so perhaps a higher percentage of elderly patients as well. Jahi's parents had plenty of reason to expect that she would come out of the surgery alive and well.

My 14 year old just had a related surgery to what Jahi had, more work on his nose, less on his throat and just adenoids not tonsils. If he had died, I'd do exactly what LisaR said, raise hell. While I disagree with this family's choice to continue to keep their daughter on mechanical ventilation, I think they're well within their rights to pursue every possible answer about what happens. It's possible that nothing went wrong at that hospital, and it's possible that there were medical errors that contributed. They have a right to pursue those answers.

I don't disagree that an investigation should be done. The hospital could very well have been negligent during this surgery. I highly doubt they "did nothing" after this girl started bleeding though. Unfortunately, given how long the family is dragging this scenario out, I'm not sure an autopsy is going to reveal exactly what happened. I don't have a whole lot of knowledge about this type of thing, but if the body is decomposing (and based on all the reports we are hearing it is decomposing including organs) it may be difficult for a coroner to figure out what happened. I think this family might be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I do personally think this family has turned what is definitely a tragedy into a 3-ring circus. I feel so badly for that poor girl. Her memory is not going to be of the beautiful loving girl I'm sure she was, but of this corpse dragged through the court system in some battle concocted by a crazy lawyer who is preying on the emotions of a delusional mother.

 

[pigletgirl]

I think that any one of us would have been amazingly supportive of the family's desire to move heaven and earth to find out what happened and make the hospital pay if they caused her death in some way. But it's just hard to believe anything coming out of their camp after seeing the way they themselves have treated this girl's body since the pronouncement of her death. I can see needing some time to come to grips. But I'm thinking we all agree this is far past that point.

I think for whatever odd reason, I'm just waiting for an announcement that this girl has been peacefully laid to rest (finally) then I don't want to hear another word about the entire thing. There will be no way to know whether the hospital, with much to lose, can be trusted..... or whether this family, who has chosen to surround themselves with vultures...... and has dollars to gain ......can be trusted.

Between the time Jahi came out from surgery and her hemorrhage, something went wrong. It's almost like that family KNEW of something and now they're riddled with guilt so they cannot let her go.

They're suing to make themselves feel better over the situation.

You cannot just start blaming the hospital just yet. Her parents are not the brightest bulbs in the box and I wouldn't give them much credibility. They're totally cookoo.

 

[mom2rtk]

Between the time Jahi came out from surgery and her hemorrhage, something went wrong. It's almost like that family KNEW of something and now they're riddled with guilt so they cannot let her go.

They're suing to make themselves feel better over the situation.

You cannot just start blaming the hospital just yet. Her parents are not the brightest bulbs in the box and I wouldn't give them much credibility. They're totally cookoo.

I'm not blaming the hospital yet. All I said is that both sides have much to lose or gain. And I'm going to take what either side has to say with a gigantic grain of salt.

I think you're jumping to conclusions though. Could be what you said is true. But there is absolutely nothing concrete to base it on at this point.

 

[pigletgirl]

If my child went in for a T&A and came out dead, I have to tell you that I would launch an investigation like one has never seen before to get to the bottom of it all. If I concluded through that investigation that the hospital was even slightly negligent, I would sue them to ends of the earth and wouldn't settle for anything.

I am NOT saying the hospital is negligent. But when a child dies after fairly routine surgery, there needs to be a serious investigation. And I know some are saying this wasn't a routine surgery. I'm sorry, but hospitals operate on overweight people every single day of the year and they don't die. My son had a T&A and they took a large amount of extra tissue. While it might not be routine in a tonsillectomy, it certainly isn't rare. There are surgeries performed daily that are a hundred times more complicated than this surgery and the patient doesn't die. Again, I am not saying the hospital did anything wrong. This may have simply been one of those things, but as the parent of a child who died during surgery, you better believe I wouldn't let this one drop. Would any of you?

The thing is, I doubt there is a single person out there would let this drop if it was their child, but people hate this family so much right now, that they are automatically excusing the hospital. If this family had reacted like most of us say we would have on this thread (child is declared brain dead, parents remove life support, child passes and is buried) and then the family started an investigation, I can't imagine a single person wouldn't back them up. An investigation doesn't mean negligence will be found, but the family certainly has a right to find out why their 13 y/o is gone. Unfortunately, this has turned into a ginormous cluster **** and the family has lost support. That is really sad because it isn't common for a kid to die after tonsil surgery, but because of the circus surrounding this case, we will likely never find out what really happened.

The case was much more than a tonsillectomy. She pretty much had her entire upper airway reshaped due to her sleep apnea from her excessive weight and it was causing major issues for her. You need to realize there are always risks of putting someone under anesthesia and when someone is morbidly obese the risk increases. The hospital probably let them know that during her pre-op appointment.

 

[phorsenuf]

I agree with you completely.

Using a hospital's terminology of routine or complicated or whatever doesn't change the fact that it is done ALL THE TIME. I feel pretty sure that before the surgery when the nurses and dr were talking to this child's mother, she was reassured over and over. She was probably so sure her dd would be fine, and then she died.

Yes, but as whose hand? If the reports are true on how the parents were, post-op, in giving her a hamburger and having her talk and laugh (which was not suppose to happen), then was it their actions that caused the bleeding and subsequent events. Or was it negligence on the hospitals part (having her bleed into a bucket and having the parents suction her)? Truthfully, I find the latter much harder to believe. I guess that is why I would hate to see them settle because the truth will never come out.

 

[shellypaige]

Yes, but as whose hand? If the reports are true on how the parents were, post-op, in giving her a hamburger and having her talk and laugh (which was not suppose to happen), then was it their actions that caused the bleeding and subsequent events. Or was it negligence on the hospitals part (having her bleed into a bucket and having the parents suction her)? Truthfully, I find the latter much harder to believe. I guess that is why I would hate to see them settle because the truth will never come out.

They gave her a hamburger??? I missed that!