13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[MaryAnnDVC]

Good for you. If you truly valued human life, you'd show compassion for people in unfathomable, unbelievable circumstances. But you don't, so I question whether you truly value human life or if you just like riding up there on your high horse. You can believe what you want, but YOU don't get to make the decisions for MY life. Thankfully.

Amen.

 

[leebee]

I read that she was released last night around 8pm to her mother's care. I also read this morning that an air ambulance was being arranged for a flight to NY, but this may have been something I read on FB or somewhere and not a credited site.

Bottom line is, this girl has a vent line but it's not clear that she has a ventilator at the moment. Is this something that a parent could rent and have in their home? She also has no feeding tube, so currently no way to provide nutrition. Her organs won't last forever. She is going to eventually die, especially if they don't have a ventilator for her. It's just so sad and pathetic that they are choosing to "honor" her in this way.

(I also read, on the family's FB page, that the mean bad old hospital that wants this child dead is refusing to release the information that her body has stabilized a temperature of around 96 degrees fahrenheit… "believers" seem to think that this shows she does have brain activity and is god's will that the child live. NOT to get into a religious discussion, but why is leaving this poor child plugged into a wall with no brain function "god's will" until she can sustain life on her own again? Why wasn't it "god's will" when she hemorrhaged and died?)

 

[JanaDee]

I read that she was released last night around 8pm to her mother's care. I also read this morning that an air ambulance was being arranged for a flight to NY, but this may have been something I read on FB or somewhere and not a credited site.

Bottom line is, this girl has a vent line but it's not clear that she has a ventilator at the moment. Is this something that a parent could rent and have in their home? She also has no feeding tube, so currently no way to provide nutrition. Her organs won't last forever. She is going to eventually die, especially if they don't have a ventilator for her. It's just so sad and pathetic that they are choosing to "honor" her in this way.

(I also read, on the family's FB page, that the mean bad old hospital that wants this child dead is refusing to release the information that her body has stabilized a temperature of around 96 degrees fahrenheit… "believers" seem to think that this shows she does have brain activity and is god's will that the child live. NOT to get into a religious discussion, but why is leaving this poor child plugged into a wall with no brain function "god's will" until she can sustain life on her own again? Why wasn't it "god's will" when she hemorrhaged and died?)

I thought I read she left the hospital on a ventilator.

 

[North of Mouse]

So sorry for what they are putting this child through even though she has long been not aware - just hope with all this expense, also against what they have been told/assured of by hospital and doctors, they are having to foot the bill for all of this, and not 'eventually' us tax bearers.

What a travesty that our laws allow such behavior. Why would 'anyone' (facility) take on a controversial case like this unless they (the family) have money and they see a 'cash cow'??

Surely any federal monies (if used) would end when someone is declared dead - would be grossly fraudulent to receive support on a dead person.

 

[leebee]

So sorry for what they are putting this child through even though she has long been not aware - just hope with all this expense, also against what they have been told/assured of by hospital and doctors, they are having to foot the bill for all of this, and not 'eventually' us tax bearers.

What a travesty that our laws allow such behavior. Why would 'anyone' (facility) take on a controversial case like this unless they (the family) have money and they see a 'cash cow'??

Surely any federal monies (if used) would end when someone is declared dead - would be grossly fraudulent to receive support on a dead person.

Yes, and the government is usually pretty quick to pick up on this. When my best friend died of pancreatic cancer at age 33 (now THAT was a tragedy), she passed away on the 29th of August. Social Security contacted her mother… they wanted the money back for the 30th and 31st of the month, as they don't make payments to dead people.

I think a LOT of what's happening now is for the publicity and money. I don't believe that any legitimate medical facility, transportation company, lawyer, etc., would step into this puddle of diarrhea now, unless they were hoping for fame and fortune… and then, how legit does this make them?

 

[SamRoc]

I read that she was released last night around 8pm to her mother's care. I also read this morning that an air ambulance was being arranged for a flight to NY, but this may have been something I read on FB or somewhere and not a credited site.

I just saw this on the news. That she was taken to an undisclosed location by her family.

 

[*Fantasia*]

I think a LOT of what's happening now is for the publicity and money. I don't believe that any legitimate medical facility, transportation company, lawyer, etc., would step into this puddle of diarrhea now, unless they were hoping for fame and fortune… and then, how legit does this make them?

And that's what I said many pages ago. I have come to believe that this is something they are looking for... fame and to make money.

I guess they don't believe in death as part of life. What if her heart stopped beating and her body starts to rot... what are they going to do? Will they still wait for that miracle to happen before they can bury her?

 

[grayhairedone]

Yes I agree that no legit doctor would even consider stepping into this mess. The girl is dead. It's very sad and I can't blame the family for trying to grasp at any ray of hope. But any doctor who plays into their desperation should lose their right to practice medicine I think.

 

[maccagerl]

Bottom line is, this girl has a vent line but it's not clear that she has a ventilator at the moment. Is this something that a parent could rent and have in their home? She also has no feeding tube, so currently no way to provide nutrition. Her organs won't last forever. She is going to eventually die, especially if they don't have a ventilator for her.

She cannot breathe on her own at all. The vent is doing all of her breathing for her. When they disconnect the vent , she will have no way to oxygenate her heart and other organs, and will die within minutes. So, it is very clear that she does have a ventilator at the moment.

The amount of medical misinformation on this thread is astounding. It just goes to show that no amount of googling or reading nurses message boards can give you the same level of understanding as a medical education and experience.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Our local news has reported the following (Bay Area): Jahi left CHO last night around 8pm to an undisclosed location. There she was having the tache & feeding tube placed. The family did release a video last night of their private ambulance being escorted by a fair amount of cars, but only showed them on the freeway. They say she is ready for transport this morning and will be going to New Beginnings in NY. They interviewed the hair dresser owner there again who said they are ready & happy to help. Oh Jahi was released to the coroner who then released her to her mother's care as was stated would happen.

ETA: This article doesn't mention New Beginnings, how ever the reporter on the morning news said that was the place she'd be going today.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/jahi-mcmath-released-hospital-mother/ncdCR/

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

I just read that they took her to an undisclosed location to have a feeding tube put in. Not to be gross, but will her body be able to digest food?

 

[leebee]

She cannot breathe on her own at all. The vent is doing all of her breathing for her. When they disconnect the vent , she will have no way to oxygenate her heart and other organs, and will die within minutes. So, it is very clear that she does have a ventilator at the moment.

The amount of medical misinformation on this thread is astounding. It just goes to show that no amount of googling or reading nurses message boards can give you the same level of understanding as a medical education and experience.

Please do not make assumptions about my level of understanding or medical education/experience.I clearly understand the anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry of what is happening. You just misunderstood what I was saying. Previously, there was discussion about the availability of a ventilator. The hospital had said they would not be providing one, and several people posted that a ventilator isn't necessarily standard equipment in an ambulance. As the destination of this poor girl was also unknown, it wasn't clear if there would be any ventilator available. This is the situation to which I was referring, and not questioning the chance or length of survival once the vent was disconnected.

 

[skylizard]

I just read that they took her to an undisclosed location to have a feeding tube put in. Not to be gross, but will her body be able to digest food?

No. Not to be gross, but her bowels aren't working (since she has no brain activity) so the feeding tube is useless. The venitilator is keeping her lungs filled with oxygen and thus providiing the heart with enough oxygen to keep beating. That's it.

 

[bcla]

Please do not make assumptions about my level of understanding or medical education/experience.I clearly understand the anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry of what is happening. You just misunderstood what I was saying. Previously, there was discussion about the availability of a ventilator. The hospital had said they would not be providing one, and several people posted that a ventilator isn't necessarily standard equipment in an ambulance. As the destination of this poor girl was also unknown, it wasn't clear if there would be any ventilator available. This is the situation to which I was referring, and not questioning the chance or length of survival once the vent was disconnected.

Isn't it possible to use manual ventilation? I'm not sure it's a great idea, but I have heard of some patients in other countries on (actual) life support where the families can't afford to pay for a mechanical ventilator. From what I heard, family members would take turns with a manual squeeze bag. It sounded a bit risky should a family member have an issue such as falling asleep or muscle cramping, but apparently the cost of living in such countries is low compared to the cost of the equipment, so doing it manual was considerably more cost effective.

I'm also not sure if the equipment would be compatible.

This family (in China) apparently did it during the day until some company donated a mechanical respirator. At night they used a rig with a squeeze bag attached to a plunger activated by a piston. It was all rigged by his brother.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...entilator-family-squeeze-18-times-minute.html

The electric-powered ventilator was crafted by Fu's younger brother in 2009 after watching how to make one on TV

There's a photo of the hands of one of the family members. They're all mangled from the squeezing of the bags for years.

 

[leebee]

Isn't it possible to use manual ventilation? I'm not sure it's a great idea, but I have heard of some patients in other countries on (actual) life support where the families can't afford to pay for a mechanical ventilator. From what I heard, family members would take turns with a manual squeeze bag. It sounded a bit risky should a family member have an issue such as falling asleep or muscle cramping, but apparently the cost of living in such countries is low compared to the cost of the equipment, so doing it manual was considerably more cost effective…

Yes, but… There is more to ventilation than just moving room air into and out of the lungs. Things like oxygen mix, flow rates, pressure, back pressure etc., come into play. I would guess that they could hand-bag her temporarily, but not successfully, for too long. Remember that she isn't just unconscious or comatose, she has actually died. Big difference physiologically/biochemically between the two states.

 

[Little Flower]

No. Not to be gross, but her bowels aren't working (since she has no brain activity) so the feeding tube is useless. The venitilator is keeping her lungs filled with oxygen and thus providiing the heart with enough oxygen to keep beating. That's it.

Also? How are they keeping her organs perfused as I'm sure her blood pressure will be in her boots? Without Inotropes there's no way there is any where enough blood pressure to keep her tissues going let alone her organs. I don't know about the US but in the uk you can't leave hospital with intropes - yet another thing that will ensure she is breaking down before her families eyes! So horrible

 

[Disney Doll]

These are the choices the family has made for this child. I wouldn't want anyone to do it to me

 

[leebee]

These are the choices the family has made for this child. I wouldn't want anyone to do it to me

And this, above, is what it boils down to. In my opinion, a travesty is being committed on her remains by parents/family who struggle with facing reality, but they are the ones who legally make these decisions. A child has died, and out of respect for her life, I'll no longer continue to speculate on the situation. Thanks to everyone for an interesting, mostly civil, informative discussion. Rest peacefully, Jahi, and know that there are many people who cared for you.

 

[NY Disney fan]

And this, above, is what it boils down to. In my opinion, a travesty is being committed on her remains by parents/family who struggle with facing reality,

This is one of those "unless you have walked in my shoes...." scenarios.

 

[maccagerl]

Please do not make assumptions about my level of understanding or medical education/experience.I clearly understand the anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry of what is happening. You just misunderstood what I was saying. Previously, there was discussion about the availability of a ventilator. The hospital had said they would not be providing one, and several people posted that a ventilator isn't necessarily standard equipment in an ambulance. As the destination of this poor girl was also unknown,it wasn't clear if there would be any ventilator available.This is the situation to which I was referring, and not questioning the chance or length of survival once the vent was disconnected.

I understood exactly what you were saying, and you don't seem to understand that she cannot be without the vent at all, not even for transport.
This entire situation is about preventing the hospital from disconnecting the vent. If the vent is disconnected for transport, the same thing will happen as if the hospital disconnected the vent- her heart will stop beating from lack of oxygen.
We transfer people on vents all the time- there are critical care ambulances that are equipped with portable vents and monitors and staffed with critical care nurses who are able to manage drips and vents.