13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[Procrastinate]

I checked my insurance policy for UPPP. I was incorrect when I said that my insurance does not cover them. It actually only requires pre-authorization and calls them an outpatient procedure. Of course, pre-authorization does not guarantee that they will pay. My son's procedure was pre-authorized and I had to fight for payment, but that was actually related to the turbinate reduction.

 

[LilyWDW]

I do understand what you are trying to say. I'm not talking about the clinical stuff though.

My above post includes some of the things I am talking about as mean. As I posted earlier there is a difference between the tone of many posters in that thread and the one about the pregnant woman in Texas. In fact in the Texas thread she was referred to as alive and nobody called her "the corpse". There's just a level of respect food this little girl missing.

I don't in any way think the family is making the right decision in Jahi's case. I don't like the way they are being vilified though. It seems like it's ok to call them liars, out for money, to say her death was their fault, to blame her weight yet if anyone mentions the hospital could in any way be acting or acted badly they are hospital haters.

Example.

Oh no its impossible that the family's story about the care leading up to her death could possible be true. They are liars. There's no way she would receive such poor care in that hospital. Yet, Rebecca Jimenez is a girl who went to the same hosptial for a similar procedure, received poor aftercare and ended up with severe brain damage. I posted a link to her story up thread.

Which means NOTHING in to current case. Now if you came up with more then one other story, maybe it would mean something. NO hospital is immune to complications after surgery or even malpractice. Why? Because it is staffed by human beings. Not robots with perfect programing.

And yes, the family has lied. The "routine" procedure when it was anything but for example. Why don't they actually tell the truth about the type of procedure done? Why don't they allow the hospital to defend itself? These are questions that can, and should, be raised. It is not "vilifying" them to ask questions about things that do not make sense.

And about the Texas case... it bothers me a lot as well. She is dead. We shouldn't, as human beings, be keeping someone from death. It boggles my mind. I do not think it is ethical in any way, shape, or form. However, Texas law requires it due to the unborn fetus. So, the state gets to play around and do what I think is not right.

There is, in this case, NO reason at all for the child to be kept on any sort of machines. I won't even call it "life support" because there is no life TO support.

 

[JanaDee]

Update from my local newspaper...

How can she take her home??

 

[Lorelei Lee]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_24840744/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter

Don't know what she thinks she's going to be able to do once she takes Jahi out of the hospital, given that CHO wasn't ordered to insert a trach or feeding tube.

Interested to hear what the federal magistrate will say later, but my guess is that she will defer to the state court.

 

[skylizard]

Here's a bit more detail on the court proceedings today from a local news anchor
https://twitter.com/LauraAnthony7

 

[Kae]

Is there a timeline to remove her from the hospital? Deadline date?

Kae

 

[skylizard]

I think the posts that outright accuse the mother of killing her with a hamburger are pretty mean, especially since that is a total rumor. They actually use those words. The ones fighting about why she should be called "the corpse" aren't too nice either. Oh, and maybe you missed the one hoping her ghost comes back to haunt her family.

Allow me to post here what was said in regards to haunting:

"If I believed in ghosts, I'd hope that kid would haunt the lawyer and pastor, and all the other vultures that are preying on the mother and egging on this travesty for their own motives."

Doesn't look like she's being mean and wanting the girl to haunt her family....

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Taking her home without the trach & feeding tube, will lead to her death at home, if not on the way, correct? She'll no longer have the vent or BP meds being provided by the hospital currently.

Does anybody know if the order allows them or is forcing them to take her home? Can they elect to keep her at the hospital? Can the hospital force them out now? I know they are still waiting on the federal court to weigh in.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Which means NOTHING in to current case. Now if you came up with more then one other story, maybe it would mean something. NO hospital is immune to complications after surgery or even malpractice. Why? Because it is staffed by human beings. Not robots with perfect programing.

And yes, the family has lied. The "routine" procedure when it was anything but for example. Why don't they actually tell the truth about the type of procedure done? Why don't they allow the hospital to defend itself? These are questions that can, and should, be raised. It is not "vilifying" them to ask questions about things that do not make sense.

And about the Texas case... it bothers me a lot as well. She is dead. We shouldn't, as human beings, be keeping someone from death. It boggles my mind. I do not think it is ethical in any way, shape, or form. However, Texas law requires it due to the unborn fetus. So, the state gets to play around and do what I think is not right.

There is, in this case, NO reason at all for the child to be kept on any sort of machines. I won't even call it "life support" because there is no life TO support.

It does mean something though. It means that all the posts outright dismissing anything the family says because there's no way anything like that would ever happen at such a hospital are wrong. It means that sometimes mistakes are made and the family shouldn't just be dismissed and called liars.
Over and over its being said that this family must be lying about everything. The people saying it address contradicting themselves and one another left and right. They must be lying because no one would call her "the body", then other posters come along and say they must have been instructed to do that by the lawyers, then someone else comes along and says that's what s/he'd call her because the family needs to realize that's all she is. So which is it? Would it never happen and the family are a bunch of liars? Would it happen but only for legal reasons or would it happen because some feel it's the best way to wake the family up to reality? The fact that all of those things have been said by people in this thread, tells me that it's not impossible and unfair to just say they family are lying.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

It does mean something though. It means that all the posts outright dismissing anything the family says because there's no way anything like that would ever happen at such a hospital are wrong. It means that sometimes mistakes are made and the family shouldn't just be dismissed and called liars. Over and over its being said that this family must be lying about everything. The people saying it address contradicting themselves and one another left and right. They must be lying because no one would call her "the body", then other posters come along and say they must have been instructed to do that by the lawyers, then someone else comes along and says that's what s/he'd call her because the family needs to realize that's all she is. So which is it? Would it never happen and the family are a bunch of liars? Would it happen but only for legal reasons or would it happen because some feel it's the best way to wake the family up to reality? The fact that all of those things have been said by people in this thread, tells me that it's not impossible and unfair to just say they family are lying.

You are taking a lot of things out of context. There are many, myself included, who said it is hard to believe they would address her as the body to the family, but could see given THESE circumstances how it may have resulted in that. And if they are calling her that, I still believe it's in the most loving & respectful way they can. As for the family lying - I don't think they are lying about everything, however they are liars. That has already been proven. The fact that they still are calling this a routine surgery is not a matter of opinion, it's a lie! And they seem shady, whether they are not, when they don't let the hospital give their side of the story. If they are on the up & up in everything they say, what are they afraid the hospital is going to say/reveal. It seems as though they are covering up parts to their story - or leaving them out all together. They family is lying, even if by just being misguided, when they say this child is alive.

In the end, regardless of who's at fault, a little girl has lost her life. The specifics may come out later, but for now it is HER family that has made this into a circus. I

 

[Lorelei Lee]

It does mean something though. It means that all the posts outright dismissing anything the family says because there's no way anything like that would ever happen at such a hospital are wrong. It means that sometimes mistakes are made and the family shouldn't just be dismissed and called liars.
Over and over its being said that this family must be lying about everything. The people saying it address contradicting themselves and one another left and right. They must be lying because no one would call her "the body", then other posters come along and say they must have been instructed to do that by the lawyers, then someone else comes along and says that's what s/he'd call her because the family needs to realize that's all she is. So which is it? Would it never happen and the family are a bunch of liars? Would it happen but only for legal reasons or would it happen because some feel it's the best way to wake the family up to reality? The fact that all of those things have been said by people in this thread, tells me that it's not impossible and unfair to just say they family are lying.

What happened to the child two years ago and what happened to Jahi are very different. In the other case, the parent was sent home with the child when she should not have been, something was apparently missed by the medical staff and she should not have been sent home. In Jahi's case, the allegation is that she received improper treatment when circumstances changed at the hospital.

But yes, it illustrates your point that medical personnel are fallible.

And having read the court documents, it's clear that the family is either lying or in denial about what happened.

 

[thankudrivethru]

I'm not sure you're 100% correct either. The heart muscle CANNOT beat independently without a functioning medulla oblongata unless it has oxygenated blood being pushed through it. The medulla oblongata is the lowest part of the brainstem. It is the part that controls the heartbeat, blood pressure and consciousness. It doesn't really matter how strong the heart muscle is, because without a functioning brainstem, even on a vent, it won't last indefinitely.

A machine is controlling the beating of her heart.

Anyhow many tests were done to confirm brain dead, there is absolutely no brain activity whatsoever. There is also no way she had a cheeseburger right after surgery that is a rumor. You don't get to have the combo meal from jack in the box after a surgery like that. I am sure the family didn't do anything to complicate the surgery after she had it.

I think any day now reality is going to take effect for Jahi's mother. She will realize soon that her daughter is gone and that is going to be heartbreaking enough as it already is.

 

[mnrose]

How can she take her home??

Her heart will stop beating. She will never make it home. The fact that the mother thinks this is a rational choice boggles the mind. Without getting graphic, according to the nurse website, some pretty morbid things will happen to that young girl's body if a feeding tube is inserted. I cannot believe any mother would want that.

 

[Disney Doll]

I never said everyone at the hospital was terrible and uncaring. I'm not assuming that at all. I'm also not assuming everyone at the hospital is wonderful and lovely.

My comments in the post you quoted were about that site linked upthread. There are some really mean things written on that site. It doesn't mean every nurse is mean and uncaring but some of the ones on that site are.

If you look back on your posts throughout this thread, your implication has consistently been that the hospital is uncaring. I am assuming that you have had a bad experience or exepriences at a hospital which has colored your opinion. It's OK...we don't see things as they are...we see things as we are.

I am simply stating that most hospital employees do not wish to do harm. And ANY hospital employee that comes in contact with these people is goign to be even more on their toes than normal, because of the whole debacle it has become. I mean, at the very least, every single person whose name is on that chart is looking down the gun at being named in a lawsuit.

 

[mnrose]

Allow me to post here what was said in regards to haunting:

"If I believed in ghosts, I'd hope that kid would haunt the lawyer and pastor, and all the other vultures that are preying on the mother and egging on this travesty for their own motives."

Doesn't look like she's being mean and wanting the girl to haunt her family....

That's what I recall...it's not at all mean to the family...mean to the vultures surrounding her? Absolutely. But, they deserve it. That so-called rehab center knows full well that it is NO position to accept the body, and yet, they continue to milk this situation for all it's worth. Disgusting.

 

[Disney Doll]

I think the posts that outright accuse the mother of killing her with a hamburger are pretty mean, especially since that is a total rumor. They actually use those words. The ones fighting about why she should be called "the corpse" aren't too nice either. Oh, and maybe you missed the one hoping her ghost comes back to haunt her family.

Actually I coded a patient many years ago who lived and came back to yell at me for calling the code which ultimately brought her back here because she had been in such a nice place.

Not a ghost, but kind of made me go "Hmmm..." when she described her code in absolute perfect detail because she was watching it from "above".

 

[hereyago]

I think the "body" thing is being overplayed. I don't see a nurse coming in to check stuff on Jahi and saying I am here to check on the body.

Now , I can see where the doctors what all 5? to come with the same conclusion maybe upon examining and perhaps may have another doctor maybe resident dr or physician's assistant taking notes and saying "the body is not able to do such and such without the aid of the machines.

Sorry, corpse, body, shell it's all the same. I have written about Marlise Munoz the case in Texas as being used as incubator, because that is what her body is being used for.

The day my df passed away, I cannot begin to express how surreal and odd that day was. However, after he passed a short time after we left, the hospital called and told me and said I needed to come back and sign some paperwork to release his body, the word body was used in the context of your df's body. I didn't have a cow, I know his spirit was gone and what was left was his body.


You want to be ticked? be ticked that pregnant women in several states even with living wills, and DNR's are not having those respected because they are pregnant and not because Jahi's family can't deal with stuff and want her body on machines to play like she is alive.

 

[JanaDee]

Her heart will stop beating. She will never make it home. The fact that the mother thinks this is a rational choice boggles the mind. Without getting graphic, according to the nurse website, some pretty morbid things will happen to that young girl's body if a feeding tube is inserted. I cannot believe any mother would want that.

I know, that is what I mean.

The mother is delusional.

 

[Coonhound]

I think the "body" thing is being overplayed. I don't see a nurse coming in to check stuff on Jahi and saying I am here to check on the body.

You want to be ticked? be ticked that pregnant women in several states even with living wills, and DNR's are not having those respected because they are pregnant and not because Jahi's family can't deal with stuff and want her body on machines to play like she is alive.

Yes but at least in that case there is a reason for all this whereas in J's case there is no reason at all. In the other case there is still a life to be saved, in J's there isn't.

 

[hereyago]

Yes but at least in that case there is a reason for all this whereas in J's case there is no reason at all. In the other case there is still a life to be saved, in J's there isn't.

Marlise was just 14 weeks pregnant and sorry, but her rights of not wanting to be hooked up should outweigh a fetus of that age. I can see if she were really far along they could take it then, but it is hard to fathom people saying protect yourself (which I wholeheartedly agree with) with DNR, etc. Then if she were even newly pregnant that goes out the window.

The crux of this shouldn't be hey she has a fetus(unless she has made it known while pregnant to do everything possible in case something happens) but her rights and wishes were totally dismissed.

I found it ironic that a woman can get an abortion, but if she is dead in some states and even if she is alive in some states want to play "nanny state", it is very scary.

No one knows how long Marlise was "gone" before her husband found her. the baby has a heartbeat, but the doctors have to wait until 24 weeks I think it is to do tests to see if any harm was done while getting no oxygen.