13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

So does the mean that come Tuesday, if the body hasn't been moved, the hospital can disconnect life support? Or is there still an opening for them to come back on Tuesday and file another motion? Are they still waiting on the federal court to rule?

Haven't seen the paperwork, so I don't know if the agreement supersedes the prior order. And I think they're still at the federal court, before the magistrate. In theory the federal judge could grant a TRO, but ...

Well, I read the hospital's brief, and they make a very compelling res judicata argument. I don't think the federal court will take any action.
 
I can't believe a judge has agreed to let this mother take her daughter HOME. Is she going to buy a ventilator to keep the girl breathing? How is that going to work?
 
I can't believe a judge has agreed to let this mother take her daughter HOME. Is she going to buy a ventilator to keep the girl breathing? How is that going to work?

I think this is another media sensationalized headline, the family isnt going to literally "take her Home", what i have read what I am and interpreting is that the hospital was refusing to release the body unless specific conditions were met, it seems now the family may remove her from the hospital without meeting the hospitals conditions.
 

Marlise was just 14 weeks pregnant and sorry, but her rights of not wanting to be hooked up should outweigh a fetus of that age. I can see if she were really far along they could take it then, but it is hard to fathom people saying protect yourself (which I wholeheartedly agree with) with DNR, etc. Then if she were even newly pregnant that goes out the window. The crux of this shouldn't be hey she has a fetus(unless she has made it known while pregnant to do everything possible in case something happens) but her rights and wishes were totally dismissed. I found it ironic that a woman can get an abortion, but if she is dead in some states and even if she is alive in some states want to play "nanny state", it is very scary. No one knows how long Marlise was "gone" before her husband found her. the baby has a heartbeat, but the doctors have to wait until 24 weeks I think it is to do tests to see if any harm was done while getting no oxygen.
I agree. If that fetus isn't viable outside of its dead mother, than it should just die along with her. The thought that the state can take control of my body, or my loved one's body, to be poked, prodded, tested, manipulated, and observed like a science experiment as an incubator for weeks or months disgusts me. And how early in a pregnancy can they do this? Four weeks? 5? 6? etc? It's disgusting. Once again, women don't have rights over their own bodies. Had she been far enough along when this tragedy occurred, and the baby was delivered, it would be a different story.
 
I can't believe a judge has agreed to let this mother take her daughter HOME. Is she going to buy a ventilator to keep the girl breathing? How is that going to work?

Not home, just moved to another facility. She's simply assuming resposibility for the body from here on out.

"The family of 13-year-old Jahi McMath and Children's Hospital Oakland have reached an agreement that will allow a team to transfer the girl to another facility.

The facility was not immediately identified and although the girl can be moved while on a ventilator, her mother will take full responsibility for Jahi during the transfer, including in the event that the teen's heart stops beating, under an agreement reached Friday."
 
MinnieLovesMickey12 said:
I can't believe a judge has agreed to let this mother take her daughter HOME. Is she going to buy a ventilator to keep the girl breathing? How is that going to work?

I've had a few families take trached to the vent patients home. Couple different scenarios: family hated the only facility available to them, patient is awake, alert and appropriate...just needs lots of respiratory support, patient is being refused by all facilities due to difficult families and doctors have discharged them. Normally, whatever insurance they have (and by the time you've reached that point, the hospital has at least gotten you Medicaid) pays for a vent, nurses and respiratory therapist works one on one with a few household members on trach, vent, peg tube, basic patient care, etc, and the company that supplies the vent brings in a person to train on that particular machine. The family then has to have a home inspection, electrical plugs that can handle the vents, and generator backup for power failures. There has to be a huge coordination to get all supplies delivered & set up at the home. The patient can never be left home alone for a minute...even to go outside to mow or shovel snow.

This patient will probably never make it home alive, or will die shortly after arriving there. I've had PVS patients that have had very difficult, horrible to staff families(which is why all facilities denied them) that have taken the patients home, had them pass away very shortly at home. In all of those cases, the families seemed to accept it...and I am sure they would have brought the roof down had they died in our care. It's giving them a sense of control over a horrible situation.
 
I've had a few families take trached to the vent patients home. Couple different scenarios: family hated the only facility available to them, patient is awake, alert and appropriate...just needs lots of respiratory support, patient is being refused by all facilities due to difficult families and doctors have discharged them. Normally, whatever insurance they have (and by the time you've reached that point, the hospital has at least gotten you Medicaid) pays for a vent, nurses and respiratory therapist works one on one with a few household members on trach, vent, peg tube, basic patient care, etc, and the company that supplies the vent brings in a person to train on that particular machine. The family then has to have a home inspection, electrical plugs that can handle the vents, and generator backup for power failures. There has to be a huge coordination to get all supplies delivered & set up at the home. The patient can never be left home alone for a minute...even to go outside to mow or shovel snow. This patient will probably never make it home alive, or will die shortly after arriving there. I've had PVS patients that have had very difficult, horrible to staff families(which is why all facilities denied them) that have taken the patients home, had them pass away very shortly at home. In all of those cases, the families seemed to accept it...and I am sure they would have brought the roof down had they died in our care. It's giving them a sense of control over a horrible situation.

But since this child is legally dead, and now has a death certificate, private insurance and/or Medicaid wont' pay for any of it (the transfer, the vent, etc). And the vent currently be used belongs to the hospital, right? I have no idea weather they'll let them take the vent with them or not, but legally they don't have to?
 
But since this child is legally dead, and now has a death certificate, private insurance and/or Medicaid wont' pay for any of it (the transfer, the vent, etc). And the vent currently be used belongs to the hospital, right? I have no idea weather they'll let them take the vent with them or not, but legally they don't have to?

It is their equipment, and she is legally dead...but in their shoes, I'd let the mother take the vent just to get her out of my building.
 
I was just reading this article from our local news and I'm hoping somebody can clarify all of this for me because right now I'm really confused how this new ruling changes anything.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/judge-allows-mother-remove-brain-dead-daughter-hos/ncbyb/

So my question - according this article, she still needs to the trach put in before she can be moved. The family would also like the feeding tube placed. The judge will not order the hospital to do that and the hospital has made it clear they won't. They also won't allow somebody to come in to do it and according to the article won't write discharge instructions stating she needs one. I understand the conditions of her leaving Children's have lessened (no longer need to approve the place she's going and they are being released of any liability in her move), but she still needs the trach in order to be moved, right? And unless the federal courts force Children's to do that, they won't. So aren't they back at a stale mate essentially?
 
Lorelei Lee said:
It is their equipment, and she is legally dead...but in their shoes, I'd let the mother take the vent just to get her out of my building.

The vents they use in hospitals would not work in a patients home (most times). I had a vent dependent patient get her second back-up vent at a garage sale lol. Either way I don't see this ending well without a trach or feeding tube. The temporary et tube (used before a trach most times) isn't meant to be used long term. Parts on it can fail or it can become dislodged and while a trach can too, trachs are fairly easy to pop a new one in. An et tube requires skill and proper equipment.

But I guess she's going somewhere else? I'm assuming another hospital?

It's too bad the court didn't let the hospital act in the best interest of the patient. Her familys best interest isn't what they (physicians) are supposed to be treating.
 
I was just reading this article from our local news and I'm hoping somebody can clarify all of this for me because right now I'm really confused how this new ruling changes anything.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/judge-allows-mother-remove-brain-dead-daughter-hos/ncbyb/

So my question - according this article, she still needs to the trach put in before she can be moved. The family would also like the feeding tube placed. The judge will not order the hospital to do that and the hospital has made it clear they won't. They also won't allow somebody to come in to do it and according to the article won't write discharge instructions stating she needs one. I understand the conditions of her leaving Children's have lessened (no longer need to approve the place she's going and they are being released of any liability in her move), but she still needs the trach in order to be moved, right? And unless the federal courts force Children's to do that, they won't. So aren't they back at a stale mate essentially?

I would like to see the agreement/order. It sounds like the reporter is repeating what was previously said, and it's possible that the hospital dropped that requirement in the settlement agreement.
 
I was just reading this article from our local news and I'm hoping somebody can clarify all of this for me because right now I'm really confused how this new ruling changes anything.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/judge-allows-mother-remove-brain-dead-daughter-hos/ncbyb/

So my question - according this article, she still needs to the trach put in before she can be moved. The family would also like the feeding tube placed. The judge will not order the hospital to do that and the hospital has made it clear they won't. They also won't allow somebody to come in to do it and according to the article won't write discharge instructions stating she needs one. I understand the conditions of her leaving Children's have lessened (no longer need to approve the place she's going and they are being released of any liability in her move), but she still needs the trach in order to be moved, right? And unless the federal courts force Children's to do that, they won't. So aren't they back at a stale mate essentially?

My understanding is that CHO were previously refusing to let anyone perform the tracheotomy, which they considered medically unnecessary. The settlement apparently will allow an outside doctor to perform the procedures if they can find one willing to do it. It's been noted that a doctor doing so could be punished for doing so given the multiple diagnoses of brain death.
 
I would like to see the agreement/order. It sounds like the reporter is repeating what was previously said, and it's possible that the hospital dropped that requirement in the settlement agreement.

This is from an investigative reporter for a local news group. I think both parties allowed him to take a photo of a draft before the final one was written.

https://twitter.com/mgafni/status/419236734476378112/photo/1

BdFtlrICQAEvHPx.jpg
 
This is such a sad situation all around - for Jahi, for her family, and for the doctors and hospital staff. This appears to be coming to an end, and I really feel for the mom and the rest of the family. She's going to have to deal with the inevitable, which she's used every ounce of her being to fight for the past three weeks. It's just heartbreaking, really. I just watched a video from the 30th where she talked about begging God for another day, and it makes me so sad for her. Regardless of my opinion of the situation, as a mom, my heart just breaks for her. Watching all of the emotion - the intense anger, fear, and grief, I just pray that somehow she'll find peace. I can't imagine the horror of losing a child, and after fighting so hard to keep her, whether that was a reality or not, it just seems like it would be so much worse when she finally does have to accept that her child has died.

I feel for the staff, doctors, and attorneys, too. This has to be emotionally draining for them, as well. I've never known a nurse who wasn't deeply touched by his/her patients and their families. It's why many do what they do.

I hope there is resolution soon.
 
This is from an investigative reporter for a local news group. I think both parties allowed him to take a photo of a draft before the final one was written.

https://twitter.com/mgafni/status/419236734476378112/photo/1

BdFtlrICQAEvHPx.jpg

It's common practice at a settlement conference to mark up a settlement agreement like that and sign it with the mark ups, and ask the judge to sign off on the marked up draft. This may be "it" if both parties and the court signed it.
 
Well I'm sure the hospital staff is relieved that this is finally coming to an end. I feel bad for the mom. Eventually the girl's heart will give out and the family will have to face what they've been trying so hard to avoid. Such a tragic situation all around.
 
bcla said:
This is from an investigative reporter for a local news group. I think both parties allowed him to take a photo of a draft before the final one was written.

https://twitter.com/mgafni/status/419236734476378112/photo/1
A couple of takeaways from my reading.
1. Air transport is crossed out and just transport team is written in. So I guess she isn't going to NY
2. The transport team can take anything attached to her in terms of tubes, wires etc if they wish. They cannot take the vent or the pumps. When I've transferred patients from one facility to another the sending facility has almost always allowed use of their equipment. Except vents-hospital ones dont fit well in the back of an ambulance.
3. She is on medications plural. But unknown what. My experience gives me a couple of solid guesses.
4. The minute the body is moved from hospital bed to stretcher the mother assumes responsibility and the TRO currently in place is dissolved. IE if she codes on hospital property or off don't bother taking her back. They are not legally or ethically required to perform medical care on the deceased as affirmed by a judge today.
5. I can't read through the crossout of the second to last item.
 
Interesting cross out regarding the transport team being provided with whats listed, but crossed out is "if the transport team was transporting a patient who the hospital considered to be alive".
 














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