13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[Lanshark]

At this point there are so many people involved and this is such a big story that it will be very difficult, even if the family comes to their senses, to end this thing without admitting they were wrong to let it go this far. I don't see this ending unless the courts get involved.

 

[JanaDee]

Maybe that's the case in some hospitals, but certainly not all. My DS had his tonsils and adenoids out when he was 3. After the surgery, DH & I were brought to the recovery room as DS was coming out of the anesthesia. There were about 8 beds in this room, and parents were brought in to be with their children.

It was interesting to note how difficult it was for some kids coming out of anesthesia. It seemed that the little ones (babies, toddlers, preschoolers) just cried and wanted to be held. The older kids were a bit more agitated and one was even trying to pull out his IV repeatedly.

We were in the recovery room with DS for a couple of hours, then we were brought to the room where he spent the night. He was not offered anything to eat or drink until we were in that room. There was definitely nothing to eat or drink in the recovery area.

My DS cried and wanted to be held. I climbed in bed with him and cried right along with him. I felt horrible.

He was fine as soon as the anesthesia wore off, though.

 

[skylizard]

IMO.... Either the family is not telling the truth about what happened in that ICU or the hospital is so grossly negligent that everyone in her direct care should lose their license.

I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing the family. This hospital is one of the top children's hospital in the nation, and yet we're expected to believe that the nurses simply gave the family a cup to catch the bleeding and allowed the uncle to suction the bleeding? Really? I have a very hard time believing that.

 

[#1hoosierfan]

I am having a really hard time believing it too.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

My oldest DD had two surgeries in Providence when she was in 8th grade. The first, at the Children's Hospital, one parent was allowed into the operating room while she was put under, and both of us were brought in when they woke her up. They were quite insistent that we be there (since we were going to get something to eat) when she woke up, and that we stay with her in recovery. The second procedure two weeks later was at an "adult" hospital. Both of us were brought into the operating room while she was put under, and again, they wanted us back to be there when she woke up. DH went back to work and I stayed with her while she was wheeled to recovery (at the Children's Hospital) and the whole time she was in there.

Same DD and my other DD (both in mid to early teens at the time) had surgery at Boston Children's Hospital and we weren't brought in while they were put under, nor when they woke up. I know with one DD I was brought into recovery about 45 minutes after she was. There were children of various ages in recovery, all upset with no parents there.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing the family. This hospital is one of the top children's hospital in the nation, and yet we're expected to believe that the nurses simply gave the family a cup to catch the bleeding and allowed the uncle to suction the bleeding? Really? I have a very hard time believing that.

There's actually another story about a child having a similar surgery at this hospital and ending up with severe brain damage. It was 2 years ago. Here's a link to an article about it.

http://news.msn.com/in-depth/twin-tonsillectomy-tragedies-raise-questions

 

[bittybabygrower]

Where I work, we recover kids from OR in the PICU if they are staying overnight there. And I think some people need to walk in our shoes for a day when you are taking care of a patient like this. I have had to be there when parents have been told their baby is not going to make it, and Who would you like us to call for you to be here when we withdraw support. Don't judge us if you haven't been on this side of the fence. And I seriously doubt anyone, especially a nurse, called this child a body to the family. And this child probably looks as good as the nurses can make her for her family ( in reference to a post about if the child is bathed etc). And no, she can't be fed because frankly put her gut is most likely dead and when you put food in that then the intestinal tissue sloughs and comes out. No nutrition can be put in there. She is most likely on total parental nutrition which will eventually ruin what is left of her liver and kidney function. And I am sure she is on enough medication to keep her BP up that it would cause anyone of us to stroke. Keep the BP up, keep the vent on, the heart beats on. Take those away, the heart will stop.

And parents do stupid things when it comes to their kids. They are crying or saying they are hungry. We had one kid who was waiting for a liver and gut transplant, nothing by mouth. Guess what, we caught the mom giving her sips of her smoothly and bites of a cupcake. End result...a really sick sick kid who missed her call for a transplant because the parents fed her. That child died waiting for her next chance for a transplant. And believe me, we told them
Over and over again why she could not eat.

I can NOT stand by and let people bash the nurses taking care of the poor child. They can't defend themselves, the hospital can't defend itself...it is a totally one sided story. PICU nurses are tough...they deal with things the common layperson can't even fathom. How would you feel if you had to go in and take care of this child? Personally, it would make me sick, but you bet your bottom dollar that girl would get good care. And all this knowing your name is in that chart and if a settlement isn't made you are going to court. Been there done that. And the upheaval this family is probably causing in that unit...

 

[Jessica14]

I just wanted to share this recent article from my local paper. This boys' story was very prominent a couple of years ago. I wonder if New Beginnings is not using this boy as well to get money/publicity. A new big story/case would certainly bring them more of both.

http://riverheadnewsreview.timesreview.com/2014/01/50264/2013-person-of-the-year-michael-hubbard/

 

[LilyWDW]

There's actually another story about a child having a similar surgery at this hospital and ending up with severe brain damage. It was 2 years ago. Here's a link to an article about it.

http://news.msn.com/in-depth/twin-tonsillectomy-tragedies-raise-questions

Okay. And?

Again, complications happen. In the story quoted the hospital settled. No way for us to know if something actually went wrong or the hospital just decided to settle to get the case done. That happens quite frequently.

Also, even if there was negligence in the case you posted does not mean that it happened in this one. One does not equal another.

It proves nothing. It is just another way to "cast doubt" on the hospital that is not allowed to defend themselves.

Now, in no way am I saying there is no chance of malpractice here. I don't know. No one knows except the hospital at this point honestly. However, I refuse to simply color them the bad guys when the family is not allowing them to defend themselves. Right now we have ONE story and I am not going to make a decision based off of that single story when there are parts of it that make no sense, have been changed, and that actual do contain information that makes the family's actions questionable as well.

 

[susan1]

Where I work, we recover kids from OR in the PICU if they are staying overnight there. And I think some people need to walk in our shoes for a day when you are taking care of a patient like this. I have had to be there when parents have been told their baby is not going to make it, and Who would you like us to call for you to be here when we withdraw support. Don't judge us if you haven't been on this side of the fence. And I seriously doubt anyone, especially a nurse, called this child a body to the family. And this child probably looks as good as the nurses can make her for her family ( in reference to a post about if the child is bathed etc). And no, she can't be fed because frankly put her gut is most likely dead and when you put food in that then the intestinal tissue sloughs and comes out. No nutrition can be put in there. She is most likely on total parental nutrition which will eventually ruin what is left of her liver and kidney function. And I am sure she is on enough medication to keep her BP up that it would cause anyone of us to stroke. Keep the BP up, keep the vent on, the heart beats on. Take those away, the heart will stop.

And parents do stupid things when it comes to their kids. They are crying or saying they are hungry. We had one kid who was waiting for a liver and gut transplant, nothing by mouth. Guess what, we caught the mom giving her sips of her smoothly and bites of a cupcake. End result...a really sick sick kid who missed her call for a transplant because the parents fed her. That child died waiting for her next chance for a transplant. And believe me, we told them
Over and over again why she could not eat.

I can NOT stand by and let people bash the nurses taking care of the poor child. They can't defend themselves, the hospital can't defend itself...it is a totally one sided story. PICU nurses are tough...they deal with things the common layperson can't even fathom. How would you feel if you had to go in and take care of this child? Personally, it would make me sick, but you bet your bottom dollar that girl would get good care. And all this knowing your name is in that chart and if a settlement isn't made you are going to court. Been there done that. And the upheaval this family is probably causing in that unit.

^^^^^^
This, you can feel the pain. It is true we have to deal with things beyond most peoples imagination.

 

[mefordis]

Very good post. I'm sure none of the nurses are volunteering to be assigned to this patient. Not sure if this is anything like the hospital my family member works in, where the family can live in the room with the child for the duration. If it is then the family is there 24/7. I hear it makes it a lot harder for the nurses with that set up.

I also wanted to add that as long as the patient is getting fluids, nutrition is not really necessary right now. Correct? Even if she were not brain dead. The body can live off fat stores for energy for a very long time, can't it?

Where I work, we recover kids from OR in the PICU if they are staying overnight there. And I think some people need to walk in our shoes for a day when you are taking care of a patient like this. I have had to be there when parents have been told their baby is not going to make it, and Who would you like us to call for you to be here when we withdraw support. Don't judge us if you haven't been on this side of the fence. And I seriously doubt anyone, especially a nurse, called this child a body to the family. And this child probably looks as good as the nurses can make her for her family ( in reference to a post about if the child is bathed etc). And no, she can't be fed because frankly put her gut is most likely dead and when you put food in that then the intestinal tissue sloughs and comes out. No nutrition can be put in there. She is most likely on total parental nutrition which will eventually ruin what is left of her liver and kidney function. And I am sure she is on enough medication to keep her BP up that it would cause anyone of us to stroke. Keep the BP up, keep the vent on, the heart beats on. Take those away, the heart will stop.

And parents do stupid things when it comes to their kids. They are crying or saying they are hungry. We had one kid who was waiting for a liver and gut transplant, nothing by mouth. Guess what, we caught the mom giving her sips of her smoothly and bites of a cupcake. End result...a really sick sick kid who missed her call for a transplant because the parents fed her. That child died waiting for her next chance for a transplant. And believe me, we told them
Over and over again why she could not eat.

I can NOT stand by and let people bash the nurses taking care of the poor child. They can't defend themselves, the hospital can't defend itself...it is a totally one sided story. PICU nurses are tough...they deal with things the common layperson can't even fathom. How would you feel if you had to go in and take care of this child? Personally, it would make me sick, but you bet your bottom dollar that girl would get good care. And all this knowing your name is in that chart and if a settlement isn't made you are going to court. Been there done that. And the upheaval this family is probably causing in that unit...

 

[Procrastinate]

When my son had the same surgery at 16 as Jahi for the same reason except he did not have his adenoids removed, there was never any discussion of putting him in the ICU. There was discussion on whether he should spend the night in pediatrics or the post-op wing, with the doctor choosing the latter. We were not allowed in recovery although they said they do allow that with younger children. He was still very much out of it when they brought him to his regular room. I do believe they gave him water and popsicles pretty quickly. It took him quite a few days at home to work up to mashed potatoes or pancakes. I'm sure there was nothing like a hamburger for about ten days. Not because it was forbidden for that long, but because he couldn't stand the pain of swallowing.

 

[JanaDee]

I feel for the nurses in the situation. What a terrible job that must be.

If I were a nurse, I wouldn't want to be assigned the case for 2 reasons ~ one being how emotionally difficult the case is and two, anyone that has touched Jahi will be named in whatever lawsuit her family will be filing.

 

[bittybabygrower]

You can sustain a person on total parental nutrition they an IV for a long time, but it eventually ruins the liver and kidneys. They lose weight as the body is utilizing the fat stores and because you aren't feeding those cells more calories than needed.

 

[ReneeA]

I feel for the nurses in the situation. What a terrible job that must be.

If I were a nurse, I wouldn't want to be assigned the case for 2 reasons ~ one being how emotionally difficult the case is and two, anyone that has touched Jahi will be named in whatever lawsuit her family will be filing.

They don't have a choice, I'm sure. Everywhere I've ever worked, we take turns with problem cases, families, patients. It's not fair a a couple of team players to get stuck every shift since everyone else is refusing.

As for suspecting parents of feeding her inappropriately, it's because we see it all the time. I've caught patients directly after surgery being fed, patients with ileuses, patients on insulin drips with blood sugars in the 1000's, patients with open guts (nothing like having soda ooze out an abdominal dressing.) It happens very, very frequently, and is life threatening to our patients. I've banned all visitors for certain patients because it was *critical* to their health that they not be fed, and every time family showed up, we had to take food and drinks away.

 

[JanaDee]

They don't have a choice, I'm sure. Everywhere I've ever worked, we take turns with problem cases, families, patients. It's not fair a a couple of team players to get stuck every shift since everyone else is refusing.

I know.

 

[wiigirl]

I feel for the nurses in the situation. What a terrible job that must be.

If I were a nurse, I wouldn't want to be assigned the case for 2 reasons ~ one being how emotionally difficult the case is and two, anyone that has touched Jahi will be named in whatever lawsuit her family will be filing.

Totally agree...a tough situation for the nurses and staff...

 

[mnrose]

I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing the family. This hospital is one of the top children's hospital in the nation, and yet we're expected to believe that the nurses simply gave the family a cup to catch the bleeding and allowed the uncle to suction the bleeding? Really? I have a very hard time believing that.

I find it so bizarre as to be beyond belief. My D was an in patient at a Children's Hospital for three weeks (not Oakland). She was not in any sort of "intensive" unit and still, every time she pushed her call button, someone was there within a matter of seconds.

Also, while the family claims that the nurses seemed unconcerned, I wonder whether they are interpreting correctly. Nurses are trained to remain CALM. It would do no one any good if they got hysterical while treating patients....even those whose conditions are dire.

 

[LisaR]

I find it so bizarre as to be beyond belief. My D was an in patient at a Children's Hospital for three weeks (not Oakland). She was not in any sort of "intensive" unit and still, every time she pushed her call button, someone was there within a matter of seconds.

Also, while the family claims that the nurses seemed unconcerned, I wonder whether they are interpreting correctly. Nurses are trained to remain CALM. It would do no one any good if they got hysterical while treating patients....even those whose conditions are dire.

I certainly think the story the family is telling is questionable. When in a stressful situation, we don't always see things how they really are. I've seen many instances where a family claims it took an ambulance 30 minutes to arrive, but when they look at the 9-11 call, it only took 8 minutes! Having said that, hospitals aren't perfect. The staff is generally overly stressed and they can have bad days just like the rest of us. While most nurses are wonderful, not everyone is meant for that job. Pushing the call button doesn't always yield a nurse in seconds at every hospital. They could be busy with another emergency. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we will ever really know what happened. I think the family had a much better chance of finding out if there was any negligence on the part of the hospital if they would have let this situation play out naturally.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Some interesting details from the court documents.

In the state court action, certain exhibits have been put under seal, meaning that they're not available to the public. I can only speculate why.

The lawyer for the family tried to address the cause of death, not just the fact of whether death had occurred, and the court shut off that inquiry for purposes of determining whether the vent should remain.

The court strongly suggested that Dr. Byrne would not qualify as an expert witness under Daubert.

The family's attorney relied on case law concerning minors who are comatose or in a persistent vegetative state, and the court ruled those cases were different -- determining whether someone is dead or alive is far different than determining whether life support or other treatment can be withheld from someone who is alive.