13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[Coonhound]

And what happens if she *dies* while they are putting in the feeding tube or Vent??
I mean really..how is this going to go over...Do they have to give her pain killers? If not will the family be in an uproar? If she *dies* then they will say the Dr's did it to her...

She is already dead. She can't die again.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

She is already dead. She can't die again.

Yes, but if you accept that she needs the trach and the tube, you are rejecting the concept of brain death and then she isn't "dead". So if her heart stops beating while these procedures are being performed, she will have "died" during the procedures.

And if you are on the medical team performing these procedures, you have opened yourself up to liability for "wrongful death".

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Interesting coincidence.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ariel-sharon-aggressive-care-alive/story?id=21399561

 

[lsyorke]

Interesting coincidence.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ariel-sharon-aggressive-care-alive/story?id=21399561

He's not brain dead, different situation. There's a post in that allnurses link that does a very good job of explaining what happens to a body after brain death.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

He's not brain dead, different situation. There's a post in that allnurses link that does a very good job of explaining what happens to a body after brain death.

Yes, there is a difference. I thought it was interesting that the hospital insists he's not aware and his sons disagree and requested aggressive treatment.

 

[Borishack]

Yes, but if you accept that she needs the trach and the tube, you are rejecting the concept of brain death and then she isn't "dead". So if her heart stops beating while these procedures are being performed, she will have "died" during the procedures.

And if you are on the medical team performing these procedures, you have opened yourself up to liability for "wrongful death".

No, from a legal perspective, there is nothing "conceptual" going on here.

Under the laws of the state of California, the girl is already legally dead, because her brain has ceased to function. Brain death is irreversible. So the trach and tube are doing nothing but keeping the heart of a corpse beating. So there is no liability whatsoever if the heart stops, because you can't kill a corpse.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

No, from a legal perspective, there is nothing "conceptual" going on here.

Under the laws of the state of California, the girl is already legally dead, because her brain has ceased to function. Brain death is irreversible. So the trach and tube are doing nothing but keeping the heart of a corpse beating. So there is no liability whatsoever if the heart stops, because you can't kill a corpse.

Yes and no. While I am firmly in the camp of "brain death=death", Jahi's mother has, in essence, challenged that concept in court. If she is successful in court, thenthe statute is not applicable and her child is not legally dead. And that opens up a Pandora's box of issues regarding Jahi's status, treatment, etc.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Just on a phone, so cant link right now. But read this morning that on NY Eve her blood pressure and heart rate dipped very low. Also, her lawyer is writng a series of articles if someone could google and link it's an interesting read.

 

[bcla]

Yes and no. While I am firmly in the camp of "brain death=death", Jahi's mother has, in essence, challenged that concept in court. If she is successful in court, thenthe statute is not applicable and her child is not legally dead. And that opens up a Pandora's box of issues regarding Jahi's status, treatment, etc.

I've heard the arguments. Part of it seems to be a religious freedom argument about what it means to be dead. They apparently believe that God can reverse the condition if they keep her body ventilated. I don't know how anyone can reason with this family since their arguments seem to be that they are due a resurrection any time by the hand of God.

I'd really hate for such an unscientific and troublesome definition of "death" to carry the day in court. I understand their faith, but this is incredibly selfish of them to use the courts and all these resources to test their faith.

 

[bcla]

No, from a legal perspective, there is nothing "conceptual" going on here.

Under the laws of the state of California, the girl is already legally dead, because her brain has ceased to function. Brain death is irreversible. So the trach and tube are doing nothing but keeping the heart of a corpse beating. So there is no liability whatsoever if the heart stops, because you can't kill a corpse.

However, the stand of the family seems to be that "We believe that God provides miracles". In that case, exactly what is "irreversible"? They seemed to be convinced that she can essentially be brought back from death.

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

If this girl comes back from the dead, I swear I will be at church every.single.week.

 

[lpereira]

Interesting fact on transporting the body to another facility. Under California law corpses can only be transported by a coroner, medical examiner, or a mortician unless fully embalmed or in an airtight container.
Wonder how the family plans to get around that one.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Interesting fact on transporting the body to another facility. Under California law corpses can only be transported by a coroner, medical examiner, or a mortician unless fully embalmed or in an airtight container. Wonder how the family plans to get around that one.

That is why one of the 3 conditions the hospital has on releasing her body is the coroner signing off on it. And I don't think the coroner would. It's why the judge allowing this to drag out is so frustrating - there are so many things that individually make this hard and together next to impossible. I feel like the judge is toying with this family now by giving them the idea that there is any shred of hope of this happening. I'm sure it's just everybody trying to cover their butts and not be the bad guy though.

 

[Halloweenqueen]

Thanks for posting the link to the nurse forum. While not confirmed, I thought it was interesting to see where many sources have talked about how the family encouraged her to speak shortly after surgery and even fed her a hamburger. I can imagine how guilty the mother must feel...especially if the food might have caused her to bleed. My son has had multiple throat surgeries because of a cleft palate. His most recent surgery to remove tonsils and tissue in his airway. He begged for food after surgery. This poor girl was severely obese...over 200lbs at 13. The mother has commented many times about her daughter's weight. I hope the hospital gets the opportunity to speak at some point, but I bet there will be an out of court settlement.

 

[Borishack]

I'd really hate for such an unscientific and troublesome definition of "death" to carry the day in court.

It never will.

 

[LiveYourLife]

Just on a phone, so cant link right now. But read this morning that on NY Eve her blood pressure and heart rate dipped very low. Also, her lawyer is writng a series of articles if someone could google and link it's an interesting read.

Ask and you shall receive, Pea

http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfranci...ht-over-jahi-mcmaths-life/Content?oid=2663281

 

[Lorelei Lee]

It never will.

Unless there is a whacko judge on the bench. I have seen some weird rulings over the years.

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

Ask and you shall receive, Pea

http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfranci...ht-over-jahi-mcmaths-life/Content?oid=2663281

I'm surprised only a handful of people made comments in the "comments" section.

 

[LiveYourLife]

All of the court docs pertaining to Jahi McMath. There are eight of them (links) in reverse chronological order:


http://thaddeuspope.com/futilitycases.html

I have not had a chance to read through all of them.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

All of the court docs pertaining to Jahi McMath. There are eight of them (links) in reverse chronological order:

http://thaddeuspope.com/futilitycases.html

I have not had a chance to read through all of them.

I am going to have an interesting evening reading through all that.