13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[Disney Doll]

Looking at it from the mother's point of view is hard to see compassion coming from the hospital. There are conflicting reports on whether the hospital will let another doctor come in to perform the necessary procedures to move her.
The mother has also come out and said the workers at the hospital call her daughter "the body".

So first you have the daughter bleeding profusely while in recovery while nobody seemed to care. Then you have the hospital going back and forth with what they are willing to let the family do as far as transferring her AND being cruel by calling her "the body".

And frankly I don't believe her. On either point.

 

[Disney Doll]

I have nothing but sympathy for this poor woman, I'll never be able to imagine the agony she must be in. And she's got people around her telling her what she wants to hear (lawyer, facility in LI, shameless 'doctor'), so they can line their pockets and promote their various agendas through this tragedy.

To her, those people seem compassionate because they're giving her (false) hope. I'm sure the nursing and medical staff is being kind, but they're not telling her what she wants to hear and feeding her delusions. They're telling her the hard, painful truth, and I'm sure that seems terribly mean and uncaring to her.

Yep. Generally medical people are in a no win situation.

 

[Disney Doll]

LOL @ CRAP machine. Unless there is a new sleep apnea machine out called a CRAP machine, the two machines used for sleep apnea are called C P A P or B I P A P cpap and bipap. Not CRAP. But it is funny seeing someone type crap over and over.
.

Auto correct on whatever device they are using.

 

[Disney Doll]

No doubt - they were using those terms deliberately because they were trying to emphasize the state of her being; to drive home the point that she is deceased. It does make me cringe a bit, too, even though I understand why they are doing it. But I think the bigger picture, i.e. that "her body" is still connected to a ventilator and lovingly being cared for (as the family has confirmed), demonstrates compassion in a larger sense. The folks who are "helping" them and encouraging false hope that she will survive this, are the ones being ultimately hurtful, even though they probably mean well, too. Although I don't really fault their lawyer. He appears to be one of the only ones who answered their call for help, and is doing the best he can to exhaust their legal means. I don't really have a problem with that because as many of us have said, we might likely do the same thing if it were our own child. I believe, though, that ultimately, this will come to a natural end one way or another. And at least they will all feel they tried their hardest. Without the lawyer, they wouldn't have gotten as far as they did. I think it was a necessary part of their grieving process to do all they could, and they did. They can later take solace in that. Cost is a whole other issue (that I don't care to get into), but I don't think what's happened so far has been too, too extreme as of now. If it goes on indefinitely, it will be.

On a vent since early December in ICU??? Her care is in the millions of dollars.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

Looking at it from the mother's point of view is hard to see compassion coming from the hospital. There are conflicting reports on whether the hospital will let another doctor come in to perform the necessary procedures to move her. The mother has also come out and said the workers at the hospital call her daughter "the body". So first you have the daughter bleeding profusely while in recovery while nobody seemed to care. Then you have the hospital going back and forth with what they are willing to let the family do as far as transferring her AND being cruel by calling her "the body".

I dont believe this at all. The family can say whatever they choose since the hospital is in a no win situation and cannot comment or offer a rebuttal on anything the family says.

As others have posted, a doctor , any doctor cant just perform surgery at any hospital. There are procedures and regulations for doctors to receive " privlages" at the hospital. Plus any doctor with an ounce of morality , sense and regard for his/her reputation would never agree to any type of procedures on Jahi.

As a mother i feel for Jahi's mother. But there has to become a time where reality has to set in.

 

[kacaju]

someone posted this on New Beginnings Facebook page *I did some extensive research and cannot find any information indicating that New Beginnings or The Brendan House is a licensed facility capable of caring for anyone who requires 24/7 nursing care on a ventilator. I get a sick feeling that someone is trying to scam the public or the courts in stating New Beginnings or The Brendan House is willing and able to take Jahi McMath. Without licensure in the state of NY this would be 1. illegal and 2. unethical and 3. there would be no insurance company that would pay for the cost of providing the skilled nursing care required. From my research, they don't even have the funding they need to operate on a day to day basis NOW, let alone caring for Jahi McMath. The Brendan House is a group home, not a skilled nursing facility and New Beginnings is an outpatient operation. I truly feel for Jahi McMath's family but this place is causing false hope for this family if they are leading them to believe they can care for Jahi.*

And they are right...My Dad was on a vent.. and feeding tube 10 years ago...we are in NJ and it was NOT EASY finding a facility that could take him...Believe me.. I spent HOURS calling and visiting places within 2 hours of me and there was a small handful...and many of those did not have beds. One place that did take him shut down their vent program about 2 months later so I had to start the search all over. Just reading the website for New Beginnings..I would NEVER considered that place.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I dont believe this at all. The family can say whatever they choose since the hospital is in a no win situation and cannot comment or offer a rebuttal on anything the family says.

As others have posted, a doctor , any doctor cant just perform surgery at any hospital. There are procedures and regulations for doctors to receive " privlages" at the hospital. Plus any doctor with an ounce of morality , sense and regard for his/her reputation would never agree to any type of procedures on Jahi.

As a mother i feel for Jahi's mother. But there has to become a time where reality has to set in.

I understand that. The problem I have with it is the hospital appears to be going back and forth. Why tell the family they can bring in an outside person (after meeting certain criteria) and then turn around and say they won't allow it? It seems like giving the family false hope as much as anything else.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

I understand that. The problem I have with it is the hospital appears to be going back and forth. Why tell the family they can bring in an outside person (after meeting certain criteria) and then turn around and say they won't allow it? It seems like giving the family false hope as much as anything else.

Im not disputing u, I didnt see that written anywhere.

Even medical students at the hospital where I work , need special permission just to observe procedures.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

On a vent since early December in ICU??? Her care is in the millions of dollars.

Yep.

Apparently, too (no surprise), the DPH has been reviewing medical records for the past two weeks. We'll see what they have to say about whatever happened; whether they find wrongdoing and policy changes are implemented, etc.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

someone posted this on New Beginnings Facebook page *I did some extensive research and cannot find any information indicating that New Beginnings or The Brendan House is a licensed facility capable of caring for anyone who requires 24/7 nursing care on a ventilator. I get a sick feeling that someone is trying to scam the public or the courts in stating New Beginnings or The Brendan House is willing and able to take Jahi McMath. Without licensure in the state of NY this would be 1. illegal and 2. unethical and 3. there would be no insurance company that would pay for the cost of providing the skilled nursing care required. From my research, they don't even have the funding they need to operate on a day to day basis NOW, let alone caring for Jahi McMath. The Brendan House is a group home, not a skilled nursing facility and New Beginnings is an outpatient operation. I truly feel for Jahi McMath's family but this place is causing false hope for this family if they are leading them to believe they can care for Jahi.*

Exactly. They are not licensed to provide the type of care Jahi's body requires. So it's really kind of ridiculous to think she'll be able to go there.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I understand that. The problem I have with it is the hospital appears to be going back and forth. Why tell the family they can bring in an outside person (after meeting certain criteria) and then turn around and say they won't allow it? It seems like giving the family false hope as much as anything else.

I think it's because this isn't a stagnant situation, it's a process. They must have changed their minds based on further input from medical/legal/ethical consultants. Not unusual as more information becomes apparent.

Think of how that would actually play out. Doctors not even on staff and regular staff having to assist them. It puts them in a compromising situation all around. So staff voiced their discomfort with being involved with surgery on a deceased person, as spokespeople mentioned in their statements. I'm sure there are a lot of other considerations that maybe they hadn't fully thought through at the outset of their offer as well. It's unfortunate, but better to stop something when you can than to go ahead with something you now know is wrong.

 

[CF'er]

And let's say they do get her to this facility in NY. If/when something happens does the family then come back at Children's and say they knew this place couldn't provide care? I'm not saying they picked that facility to potentially get more money from the inevitable lawsuit but at this point there is no way anyone wins. (so to speak) Anyone trying legitimately to help is really damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[skylizard]

The story just keeps getting worse. Here's the latest from cnn:

Terri Schiavo's family joins family of teen Jahi McMath in fight over life support

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/01/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


It's a shame that this family continues to get false hope for their child. Let her rest in peace already!

 

[JanaDee]

someone posted this on New Beginnings Facebook page *I did some extensive research and cannot find any information indicating that New Beginnings or The Brendan House is a licensed facility capable of caring for anyone who requires 24/7 nursing care on a ventilator. I get a sick feeling that someone is trying to scam the public or the courts in stating New Beginnings or The Brendan House is willing and able to take Jahi McMath. Without licensure in the state of NY this would be 1. illegal and 2. unethical and 3. there would be no insurance company that would pay for the cost of providing the skilled nursing care required. From my research, they don't even have the funding they need to operate on a day to day basis NOW, let alone caring for Jahi McMath. The Brendan House is a group home, not a skilled nursing facility and New Beginnings is an outpatient operation. I truly feel for Jahi McMath's family but this place is causing false hope for this family if they are leading them to believe they can care for Jahi.*

And they are right...My Dad was on a vent.. and feeding tube 10 years ago...we are in NJ and it was NOT EASY finding a facility that could take him...Believe me.. I spent HOURS calling and visiting places within 2 hours of me and there was a small handful...and many of those did not have beds. One place that did take him shut down their vent program about 2 months later so I had to start the search all over. Just reading the website for New Beginnings..I would NEVER considered that place.

I'm sure that comment will be deleted ASAP.

 

[Wanderlust]

Well it's really a what came first the chicken or the egg situation because skinny ppl for the most part do not have sleep apnea. So it is not UNTIL a person gets fat that the sleep apnea starts. They don't have it when they are skinny. Most kids are not diagnosed with random lack of sleep problems. They are obese then they get diagnosed with sleep apnea.

I have to disagree here. Obesity is def one of the biggest contributors to sleep apnea but it's not the only contributor and sleep apnea is not limited to just people who are overweight. Both my dh, his sister and my fil were diagnosed with osa. All were/are have healthy weights, exercise regularly and eat healthy. That said, fil died of cardiac arrest due to an enlarged heart. I don't know what contributed to what. (all dh's siblings underwent extensive health testing after fil died, dh runs marathons...obesity has nothing to do with his sleep apnea) My son had severe obstructive sleep apnea, diagnosed a month shy of his 3rd birthday. The kid was barely ON the weight scale. It was severe enough that our CHOP ENT had him scheduled for surgery within weeks of his diagnosis. If you are familiar with CHOP, it takes MONTHS to get on a surgery schedule.

All we know of this girl and her diagnosis is what's been released to the media, mostly by her family. It was not just a routine surgery of a tonsillectomy and adenoidectomy, we have no idea what was discussed between the doctors or the family or what treatment she was undergoing before the surgery even took place. Maybe she had already lost a good am't of weight before the surgery took place. Maybe whatever her health issues were, were severe enough that surgeon didn't want to put it off any longer. We don't know and I think it's ridiculous to assume we do. We aren't the medical professionals in this case and unless we have all gone through med school and interned etc etc..why would we know better than doctors? No case is ever black and white, all surgery comes with risk. I feel for her family, I can't imagine going through something like this and losing my child. I don't know how I'd react in this situation. That said, my background is in neuroscience, this beautiful little girl is gone, there is no hope of her coming back and the fact that this has been allowed to go on this long is scary, it raises some serious ethical question and I hope a resolution comes quickly.

 

[Disney Doll]

You are correct on all counts Wanderlust but having been in healthcare for 30+ years, when something goes awry for some unexplained reason and despite everyone's best efforts, the healthcare person/system is blamed.

No one ever understands that sometimes things just happen and no one can prevent them.

 

[*Fantasia*]

Forget about the word BRAIN dead.. The doctors should just say that she is legally dead. Would the family still keep her "alive"? And if they did believe in miracles, then if it is God's Will.. then why not just pull the plug and see if she will breath on her own. Talk about faith... where's the faith in that? When the Lord calls you home.. then it's time. Do they not believe in life after death. Do they not know that Heaven is a much better place and the girl can be in God's care? Maybe they don't believe in life after death.. She has been called to heaven since Dec 12. Her soul might already have left her body. It's just a body.. just a frame, but no soul. They got their fame... now let the child rest in peace. I wish the girl will show up (as a ghost) and let her family know to let go and lay her down to rest.

 

[bcla]

Forget about the word BRAIN dead.. The doctors should just say that she is legally dead. Would the family still keep her "alive"? And if they did believe in miracles, then if it is God's Will.. then why not just pull the plug and see if she will breath on her own. Talk about faith... where's the faith in that? When the Lord calls you home.. then it's time. Do they not believe in life after death. Do they not know that Heaven is a much better place and the girl can be in God's care? Maybe they don't believe in life after death.. She has been called to heaven since Dec 12. Her soul might already have left her body. It's just a body.. just a frame, but no soul. They got their fame... now let the child rest in peace. I wish the girl will show up (as a ghost) and let her family know to let go and lay her down to rest.

She has been declared legally dead. Under the laws of every state in the US, a medically sound diagnosis of brain death is legally dead. I suppose the only thing holding up the issuance of a death certificate is that they can't access her body for an autopsy.

 

[LisaR]

Forget about the word BRAIN dead.. The doctors should just say that she is legally dead. Would the family still keep her "alive"? And if they did believe in miracles, then if it is God's Will.. then why not just pull the plug and see if she will breath on her own. Talk about faith... where's the faith in that? When the Lord calls you home.. then it's time. Do they not believe in life after death. Do they not know that Heaven is a much better place and the girl can be in God's care? Maybe they don't believe in life after death.. She has been called to heaven since Dec 12. Her soul might already have left her body. It's just a body.. just a frame, but no soul. They got their fame... now let the child rest in peace. I wish the girl will show up (as a ghost) and let her family know to let go and lay her down to rest.

Really??? Whether you agree with the mother or not, you can't possibly believe she is doing this for FAME, can you? I see nothing more than a mother who is seriously misguided because of her grief. Is she handling it like most of us say we would? No. But I don't doubt for one minute that she would take away all the "fame" this has brought her if she could have her daughter back.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Really??? Whether you agree with the mother or not, you can't possibly believe she is doing this for FAME, can you? I see nothing more than a mother who is seriously misguided because of her grief. Is she handling it like most of us say we would? No. But I don't doubt for one minute that she would take away all the "fame" this has brought her if she could have her daughter back.

I don't think the mother is doing it for fame, but there are people near her, advising her, who are definitely in it for the exposure.