13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[moon]

Really??? Whether you agree with the mother or not, you can't possibly believe she is doing this for FAME, can you? I see nothing more than a mother who is seriously misguided because of her grief. Is she handling it like most of us say we would? No. But I don't doubt for one minute that she would take away all the "fame" this has brought her if she could have her daughter back.

ITA. I can't believe all the bashing the family is getting. However misguided they may be, they are motivated by unbearable grief. I can't even imagine, and I won't judge them

 

[Lanshark]

Hopefully they have someone who can get through to them.

 

[bcla]

Hopefully they have someone who can get through to them.

Have you heard what's come from the family? I would describe it as "Those may be your standards for death, but we have God on our side." It's as if they don't believe that a normal definition of death should apply to their child because their faith is strong and because they feel that God can restore the functionality of her brain. The seem to believe that if they can keep her ventilated, she's not actually dead because God will step in to reward them for their faith.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Really??? Whether you agree with the mother or not, you can't possibly believe she is doing this for FAME, can you? I see nothing more than a mother who is seriously misguided because of her grief. Is she handling it like most of us say we would? No. But I don't doubt for one minute that she would take away all the "fame" this has brought her if she could have her daughter back.

I see a mother who is being misguided by a rabid group of reactionaries who are using this situation to advance their extreme anti abortion agenda.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

ITA. I can't believe all the bashing the family is getting. However misguided they may be, they are motivated by unbearable grief. I can't even imagine, and I won't judge them

You don't know that. I do believe the parents are, but I'm not sure about the uncle. He doesn't seem to be in it for the right reasons. Nor do any of the outside people on their side. I see a family who has experienced the worse possible thing, but who now have people in their corner who are exploiting the situation.

 

[dakcp2001]

Another tragedy

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...line-iranian-woman-dies-u-s-article-1.1563678

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Another tragedy

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...line-iranian-woman-dies-u-s-article-1.1563678

The difference being, this young woman's family accepted what happened to her. Still tragic.

 

[LilyWDW]

Really??? Whether you agree with the mother or not, you can't possibly believe she is doing this for FAME, can you? I see nothing more than a mother who is seriously misguided because of her grief. Is she handling it like most of us say we would? No. But I don't doubt for one minute that she would take away all the "fame" this has brought her if she could have her daughter back.

I have not bashed the family besides saying I do not believe they are of sound mind to make decisions at this moment. However, I do believe there are people that surround them that ARE looking to push their agendas and looking for fame. The problem is, the mother is so upset that she is listening to these people instead of the people she should listen to... the doctors. That is why I do not feel she should be making these decisions.

 

[ReneeA]

I feel bad for the family, but unfortunately, they are on the losing end of this battle. From firsthand experience, a person who is already brain dead won't survive long, even with a trach and peg. They require artificial hormones, vasopressors, and multiple iv replacements to make up for what their brain isn't able to do anymore. Long term acute care facilities aren't able to manage that type of care, and will not accept the patient. This "New Beginnings" facility is not available yet, not licensed, and will never be equipped to handle brain death. I work in an inner city SICU, and we (on average) take care of about 1 brain death case a week, with many having to be artificially kept alive until Gift of Life finds organ and tissue recipients. It takes a few days to a week or intense one on one nursing care, as many tests are done to make sure the organs will be viable and appropriate for donation. The nurses assigned to a GOL patients in my facility are always singled, and I can tell you...it is a long, difficult day emotionally and physically when you get that assignment.

As for keeping the comatose alive, I have 4 years of prior nursing experience there, too. It is a torturous existence for those people. Trached to the vent, bedridden, tube fed, cannot move or talk. Most develop huge bedsores within a few months of being at nursing homes. Many eventually require dialysis, then it leads to multi system organ failure. Pneumonia and sepsis time and time again since they have a hole in their respiratory tract, and they live in facilities with many other chronically ill patients. We have these families insisting we find a way to keep their loved ones alive, even after years of deterioration. Refusing the staff from adequately treating pain during baths and dressing changes because we may "overdose" them. So we torture these poor souls...day after day, year after year. I loved my job. I loved trying to make a patient that leads such a bleak existence a bit more comfortable. But after a few years, I was so burned out. My body hurt, and my soul hurt. We play God by standing in the way of what he wants.

 

[DisReno]

ReneeA...I have a question about your post.

Does a brain dead person "feel" pain? Or because their brain is dead, they feel nothing?

Just curious. I think a person who is brain dead should be let go. We were meant to be functioning human beings...anything that takes away from that causes great difficulties, in all areas.

I always think of Christopher Reeve-even though he wasn't brain dead, and did as much as he could without walking, his early death just showed that humans are meant to be walking, talking, individuals and experience great difficulty when those things are taken away.

 

[ReneeA]

ReneeA...I have a question about your post.

Does a brain dead person "feel" pain? Or because their brain is dead, they feel nothing?

Just curious. I think a person who is brain dead should be let go. We were meant to be functioning human beings...anything that takes away from that causes great difficulties, in all areas.

I always think of Christopher Reeve-even though he wasn't brain dead, and did as much as he could without walking, his early death just showed that humans are meant to be walking, talking, individuals and experience great difficulty when those things are taken away.

Brain dead does not feel pain...we don't medicate them for pain. Most comatose can feel pain since they aren't brain dead...they grimace and withdraw as a sign of pain.

 

[skylizard]

Latest news:

"OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — A federal magistrate will meet Friday with lawyers for a California hospital and a 13-year-old California girl declared brain dead after tonsil surgery.

A federal judge issued an order Thursday instructing representatives of Children's Hospital Oakland and the family of Jahi McMath to attend the mandatory settlement conference and try to avoid going to trial.

The hospital and Jahi's mother are locked in a harrowing clash over the girl's care. Children's maintains that Jahi is legally dead and that the ventilator keeping her heart pumping should be removed.

The girl's mother wants to transfer her to another facility and to compel the hospital to allow Jahi to be fitted with the breathing and feeding tubes she would need to be moved safely."

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Latest news:

"OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — A federal magistrate will meet Friday with lawyers for a California hospital and a 13-year-old California girl declared brain dead after tonsil surgery.

A federal judge issued an order Thursday instructing representatives of Children's Hospital Oakland and the family of Jahi McMath to attend the mandatory settlement conference and try to avoid going to trial.

The hospital and Jahi's mother are locked in a harrowing clash over the girl's care. Children's maintains that Jahi is legally dead and that the ventilator keeping her heart pumping should be removed.

The girl's mother wants to transfer her to another facility and to compel the hospital to allow Jahi to be fitted with the breathing and feeding tubes she would need to be moved safely."

I feel for the magistrate, he's not going to get any sort of consensus.

 

[SLP958]

I am betting the hospital ends up having to do the procedures.

 

[Procrastinate]

Several pages ago, someone asked whether anyone here would consider having this surgery. My son had virtually the same surgery for sleep apnea when he was 15. It was not a decision we made lightly. First, there were several visits to specialists and tests to rule out many other health problems before it was determined that his problems were caused by sleep apnea. Once doctors determined he had sleep apnea, he tried a CPAP. He also tried medications to help keep him awake. I can tell you that our doctors did not encourage the use of CPAPs in teens because teens are not likely to be compliant with them. My husband uses a CPAP and his father used one when he was alive, so I am very familiar with them.

Once we decided to proceed with surgery, we saw two ENTs and picked the one we were most comfortable with. My son had a tonsillectomy, a turbinate reduction on his nose, and had his uvula removed. I believe Jahi also had her adenoids removed, but the ENT said my son did not need that. The ENT also said my son has a deviated septum, but felt that correcting that would be too much for one surgery.

The day of surgery, we went to the outpatient surgery center connected to our hospital. After surgery, they decided to keep him overnight in a wing of the hospital used for post-surgical patients. We were certainly warned about post-op bleeding being a possible complication, both shortly after surgery, and several days later as the scabs came off. Fortunately, the only complication my son had was a minor allergic reaction to painkillers they gave him after surgery.

The surgery was life changing for him, in a good way. He had another sleep study after the surgery, which showed the surgery was successful. Tonsillectomies are common for young children with sleep apnea, but not for adults. Teens are kind of a gray area in between, and there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the best treatment.

 

[skylizard]

I am betting the hospital ends up having to do the procedures.

I just don't understand why a judge would even consider allowing that. According to several doctors, the child is a "deceased person". No ethical medical professional would perform those surgeries under these circumstances.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

OK, I'm not working from actual court documents, just my educated guess, but my guess is that if the federal magistrate can't bring about a resolution through mediation, the federal court will likely defer to the state court's judgment.

 

[kacaju]

I am betting the hospital ends up having to do the procedures.

And what happens if she *dies* while they are putting in the feeding tube or Vent??
I mean really..how is this going to go over...Do they have to give her pain killers? If not will the family be in an uproar? If she *dies* then they will say the Dr's did it to her...

 

[lsyorke]

I am betting the hospital ends up having to do the procedures.

I can't imagine any reputable physician agreeing to do these procedures, and no judge can force a doctor to do a surgery.

 

[skylizard]

And what happens if she *dies* while they are putting in the feeding tube or Vent??
I mean really..how is this going to go over...Do they have to give her pain killers? If not will the family be in an uproar? If she *dies* then they will say the Dr's did it to her...

They're gonna say that the doctors did this to her regardless of what happens. The girls heart will give out at some point and they won't be able to keep it going. I believe the longest they've ever been able to keep a heart beating (mechanically) despite brain death was about 180 days.
If you want more info about the medical side of what's happening, check out this forum for nurses:
http://allnurses.com/nursing-news/girl-brain-dead-893941-page39.html
It'll answer more of the technical/scientific stuff that some of us are wondering about from people who work in that field. (Warning: it can get a bit graphically detailed).