12/09/06 Cruise Continued ~ Pirating Bananas DIS Geekorama Part 2 Part 15

[goofyforlife]

bottom line: Have kids with April birthdays, like Hannah!!

My person pet peeve when dd was starting school was the larger amount of blizzard babies (ie kids born june/august/sept 1992 following snow from that winter )

Many of those parents kept their kids out of school for an additional year (meaning they were turning 6 going into K) It made it hard socially on DD when the kids matured differently. (More noticeable in 2nd grade) DD was accused often of not being mature enough (Devon has a May 28th b-day)

Well duh, many of the kids were almost a year or more older than Devon.
Makes a big difference at that age. (of course Devon was still taller than them; must have been those Wheaties or bovine hormones)

My b-day is Oct 2. There's no way i needed to wait another year for school. In fact, like Angie's DD all during ES i was in with the next higher grade. Actually there was a group of maybe five kids who were in the higher grade with me every year. It was my mom who held me back in my age appropriate grade. (We switched teachers for math and stuff so i did get harder stuff to do and got to go to the gifted program one day each week; YUP i missed one whole day each week and got to do other stuff; still had A's)

The youngest kid i went to school with actually had a March b-day of the following year (meaning he only turned 17 in 12th grade) He was also in the gifted program and his parents pushed the school district to let him start early.

 

[lbgraves]

Goodnight everyone. Too tired to sit up tonight.

 

[elaineteresa]

Many of those parents kept their kids out of school for an additional year (meaning they were turning 6 going into K) It made it hard socially on DD when the kids matured differently. (More noticeable in 2nd grade) DD was accused often of not being mature enough (Devon has a May 28th b-day)

Well duh, many of the kids were almost a year or more older than Devon.
Makes a big difference at that age. (of course Devon was still taller than them; must have been those Wheaties or bovine hormones)

I have this issue now with Jaea - that is why I was very interested in what Amy said earlier. Jaea is the oldest in her class, in fact almost all the other girls in her class (8 girls) are way younger than she. Many of them had late fall birthdays and just turned 5. I really think that they have nothing to offer her in terms of challenging her in school or very much on a social level either. Because of the area (socio-economic) that our school is located in - most of the kids do not attend pre-school.

I don't want to seem over zealous but I think these things make a difference.
I discussed the age difference with her teacher - who was not aware of the fact that many of the birthdays were late - DUH!!! She said that Jaea does not have a problem relating to the other kids.

People have told me that as they go up in grades that the age difference matters less - so it is interesting that Devon noticed differences in second grade - I thought by then it would be all evened out.

I think I am going to push harder for her to be put in a 1st grade with at least 2 or 3 girls that are closer in age to her. Because she has advanced motor skills and apparently a very good ear for language/phonics she is also way beyond the really SLOW progress they are making in her half day K. Coupled with the social aspect - the word BORING definitely comes to mind. I never say it because I don't want to plant that seed.

As an example - Jaea really got into penguins and wanted a penguin birthday party. She started drawing penguins in school and wrote/sounded out PANGWIN. Well, when I went in for the conference the teacher acted like this was rocket science and had shown the other K teacher etc. Which doesn't say to me that Jaea is gifted in any sense but that the skill set of the other kids is really poor.

Any suggestions from all you more experienced parents?

 

[elaineteresa]

Vanessa- I think parents worry about this more than kids. Sometimes I think that we as parents make our kids bored by talking about how bored we think they will be in front of them. Remember, kids will live up to your expectations, whether they are good or bad.
I am not saying that kids don't get bored and that some kids are more advanced than others in the class, this happens, it happens in the workplace too!!

I can only speak from my own experience with our son and he was always ahead of his class and found the assignments to be easy and sometimes boring. We just let him enjoy school and told him to have fun!

This is very helpful Amy - and as you said I know I am more worried about it than Jaea. Your point is probably a good one that it will be easier to relax and have fun in school if there is not so much pressure from the work being really difficult.

 

[lbgraves]

William is in second grade and I can still see a difference between the kids that are at the other end of the age range. He is one of the oldest because he missed the cutoff here by a month...10/15. He doesn't understand why some of the kids act the way they do. He has always been one of the oldest and this has resulted in him being very patient with kids younger than him. He stepped into a leadership role early on helping his friends who didn't understand the work, especially in first grade. While this is a nice quality for him to have, my concern as a parent is that he is in school to learn ~ not teach the other kids what he already knows.

 

[pyramid2000]

I think you're right. I am going to just wait it out and see how she does through the year. Hopefully she will be a leader and an example for the younger children in her class (in a good way, not teaching them the chandelier tricks or anything).

I am trying very hard to watch how we influence her in terms of "school". It's pretty hard....they come in to the world with such innocence and trust...!

I had the same worries with Amanda since she missed the cutoff by a week. Sarah was way ahead of her class in Kindergarden and she has a Feb b-day so I was worried about Amanda being the same way. Amanda is ahead in her class, but she is doing fine. I love the fact that she is the oldest instead of the youngest. I don't have to worry about her being "influenced" as much.

 

[elaineteresa]

William is in second grade and I can still see a difference between the kids that are at the other end of the age range. He is one of the oldest because he missed the cutoff here by a month...10/15. He doesn't understand why some of the kids act the way they do. He has always been one of the oldest and this has resulted in him being very patient with kids younger than him. He stepped into a leadership role early on helping his friends who didn't understand the work, especially in first grade. While this is a nice quality for him to have, my concern as a parent is that he is in school to learn ~ not teach the other kids what he already knows.

I try and keep saying that it is only K and not worry about it but....

Some little girl in Jaea's class actually cut her coat pocket. I mean they are silly and immature because they have never been in school. It's just not making Jaea grow.

From things you have said, Wiliam has classic oldest child syndrome. Maybe the role he has acquired is what he is really learning - that is a lifelong skill that is fantastic to have. Leadership and patience and teaching skills are not often something you see in most 2nd graders - I applaud him. And it sounds like he is also excelling at his own work.

When I went to grammar school they separated us into 3 classes - smart, middle and dumb. This is the way the kids looked at the separation which I think then begins to define your performance level. I hope my kids have a more balanced classroom but yet a challenging one.

 

[elaineteresa]

I had the same worries with Amanda since she missed the cutoff by a week. Sarah was way ahead of her class in Kindergarden and she has a Feb b-day so I was worried about Amanda being the same way. Amanda is ahead in her class, but she is doing fine. I love the fact that she is the oldest instead of the youngest. I don't have to worry about her being "influenced" as much.

yes there is the influence issue too. my kids are coming off the bus saying all kinds of stuff they have never heard before. I don't really shelter them but I don't see the need for them to be saying smarty pants and all sorts of other stuff they are picking up. I am glad that this has held off until 6 instead of getting it all at 5.

so did Sarah seem bored at K? or did she have fun with the social aspects?

 

[lbgraves]

I find this interesting because I have a kid on each side of the spectrum. William is one of the oldest & Kaitlyn is one of the youngest with the 9/4 bday. Add those kids who were held back a year and she is up to 2 years younger than some of the kids in her class. OY! Two kids in William's 4 year PS class were held back for whatever reason and they were in Kaitlyn's class. One of them is still a trouble maker in the neighborhood...adding to that the only child being perfect thing & you have a mess.

Anyhow, we discussed holding Kaitlyn back quite a bit but decided to give her a chance. She did OK in Kindergarten but I was concerned when she wasn't reading at the level she had been "tested" at by the end of the year. I talked with her first grade teacher at the beginning of this year about my concerns. After two months or so she took off and is now surprising us. She is an A student. I would have been happy with Bs but she is doing better than I ever dreamed. We joke that it is her big brain helping her out here...went thru the big head scare and cscan at 4 months with everything being OK in the end.

As far as dealing with other kids, she is still having issues with a couple girls who are just plain cruel. She comes home in a foul mood hitting and sassing and even crying. Last year I had to deal with one little twit telling her that she was fat. I have found that it is hard for her to deal with the standard mean kid thing because she is younger and she hasn't developed emotionally enough to be able to not let it bother her as much.

 

[MrsMork]

I

When I went to grammar school they separated us into 3 classes - smart, middle and dumb. This is the way the kids looked at the separation which I think then begins to define your performance level. I hope my kids have a more balanced classroom but yet a challenging one.

We had this same separation, only just two classes of 30 some kids. The smart class and the dumb class. Then to top that off we were assisgned seats in order of our ranking in the classs.....smartest kid front seat at the left of the room, dumbest kid in the last seat at the right of the room. So, we had the smartest kid in the smart class and the dumbest kid in the dumb class and everybody knew who they were. OY! Don't be that kid!! I think WAY back then the thought was that you would try harder to get moved up.

 

[Jhalkias]

I am going to take a moment and get up on my soapbox . . . so I hope that I don’t make anyone uneasy or upset with what I have to say. They are my opinions after raising one child, in the process of raising another, and as a public school board member.

Public Schools were established in America to educate all children – not any particular child. Originally, only the wealthy had an opportunity for a good education, as they could afford to send their children to school when there was not an adequate system of public schools. Only the wealthy (with few exceptions) had the privilege of education, and the ability that gave for a better life. Yes, I know that there were exceptions, as there are always exceptions in any paradigm.

Public schools were established to give the other children of our society that same opportunity that in the past only those of wealth could afford. The result is the wealthiest nation in the world, and the largest middle class the world had ever seen. In my opinion, that was achieved because of the great mixture of talents and children that attended public schools, and in the collective rise of a great deal of those children to opportunities they may not have had without each other to learn from or lean on.

As parents, we all worry that our children should receive the best education, and be challenged and afforded the opportunity to reach their full potential. Parents have felt that way through the ages.

What I think we have begun to forget is that when we make choices based ONLY on our child, we are en-masse making decisions that will affect not only them, but the world that they live in. Urban flight has left urban school districts with only the poorest of the poor, without any positive examples and leadership that those children desperately need.

Education cannot happen with the teacher alone. Children need positive role models, and they need leaders. When society pulls all of those role models and leaders out of that environment, we should not be surprised at the result. Those children end up not responding to positive influences, and respond to the only thing they have experienced – negative experiences. The other children end up not knowing how to relate or communicate with someone who is not “like them”. The divide in our society grows deeper.

When I hear about children like William helping other kids and being a positive role model, I want to say BRAVO! That helps the other kids, and believe it or not, helps kids like William too. They learn more tolerance, learn how to lead, and learn that there are others in this world with the gift of life, but perhaps without the intellectual gifts that God gave them.

We are reaping what we sow, and my hope is that as a society we begin to look at all of our children, and the future that they will inherit based on our actions. Do we further divide our society, or do we try to bring everyone together? Do we look at what is best for only us, and only for the here and now, or do we keep an eye on the future? We shape the world we live in as much by how we treat those around us, as by how we look out for our own interests.

Forgive me Brandi for the long post. I get passionate about these things, and worry more about the world Sophia will inherit as an adult, than what is going on in the here and now. Since we got on the subject, I couldn’t resist.

John1

 

[bubbasmom99]

I try and keep saying that it is only K and not worry about it but....

Some little girl in Jaea's class actually cut her coat pocket. I mean they are silly and immature because they have never been in school. It's just not making Jaea grow.

When Nick was in kindergarten, he had a worn out spot in his pants knee that turned into a small hole, and from there, he put his finger in it and tore it into a bigger rip in his knee.... Perhaps it was immature of him, but he was 5 years old, not an adult... He had been in preschool since he was 2 years old so I don't think it has much to do with prior schooling. Preschools are not necessarily going to drill down on how to treat your clothing....

I can see why you are concerned about what Jaea is learning but unless you want to put her in a private school where there is rigorous prescreening of maturity level, you're going to have to take even more active a part in the educational process (which you've done by being engaged -- I know some teachers around here don't even get parents to come to conferences!)... Perhaps she is "bored" by the curriculum and she is advanced of her class, but I do believe it will even out in the end.

Sarah's pre-k class is at least 1/2 kids who will not make K cutoff for next year and I was concerned at first that she would be bored, or at the very least, have a teacher who was too busy corralling immature behavior rather than teaching, but she's found a way to work with each child's individual skills and Sarah is making good progress.

Nick went to private Kinder where they completed 1st grade curriculum by the end of the year and then we sent him to our local public school beginning with 1st grade. I was worried at the beginning of the year because he was hearing alot of the same stuff, but the teacher did start to differentiate the groups through the year, whether it was advancing them in math, language, etc... Same thing this year.... so maintain your open communication with the teacher and don't be afraid to suggest/ask about opportunities for Jaea to work on advanced topics (our teachers send kids to the next grade classroom for certain subjects during the day).

 

[elaineteresa]

Anyhow, we discussed holding Kaitlyn back quite a bit but decided to give her a chance. She did OK in Kindergarten but I was concerned when she wasn't reading at the level she had been "tested" at by the end of the year. I talked with her first grade teacher at the beginning of this year about my concerns. After two months or so she took off and is now surprising us. She is an A student. I would have been happy with Bs but she is doing better than I ever dreamed. We joke that it is her big brain helping her out here...went thru the big head scare and cscan at 4 months with everything being OK in the end.



they are such tricky issues - who knows what the answer is. I can't say that I remember anything from 1st grade that could have been done differently for me - on the other hand, a whole year of school is a long time to waste not being in the right setting.

I was actually worrying that they might decide to push Jaea ahead a year and then we would have the question of handling this with Giona. Ironically, I know that Giona is way smarter than Jaea but he just doesn't have the skill set for K. He has lousy motor skills and doesn't apply himself to getting any better at writing and he doesn't have the ear that Jaea has for the phonics or the confidence or maturity.

It is very interesting to see how they develop. In the long run, I know he will be the scholar and Jaea will be the social queen. LOL.

As Marielle suggested, I guess it is much easier if you are in the middle of the pack rather than at either extreme. I think it is hard to have the social skills completely mirror their academic level.

Oh - it's family bingo nite tonite.

 

[elaineteresa]

When Nick was in kindergarten, he had a worn out spot in his pants knee that turned into a small hole, and from there, he put his finger in it and tore it into a bigger rip in his knee.... Perhaps it was immature of him, but he was 5 years old, not an adult... He had been in preschool since he was 2 years old so I don't think it has much to do with prior schooling. Preschools are not necessarily going to drill down on how to treat your clothing....

Point well taken, Joy - I know I am being silly but Jaea would not have cut another child's coat even several years ago. It just seemed an indicator to me of the level of maturity of the other girls in her class.

Giona, on the other hand, experiments with it all and cut across the knee of a brand new pair of corduroy pants (I'm particularly attached to our cords) when he was learning to use scissors independently about a year ago.

 

[elaineteresa]

I can see why you are concerned about what Jaea is learning but unless you want to put her in a private school where there is rigorous prescreening of maturity level, you're going to have to take even more active a part in the educational process (which you've done by being engaged -- I know some teachers around here don't even get parents to come to conferences!)... Perhaps she is "bored" by the curriculum and she is advanced of her class, but I do believe it will even out in the end.


Nick went to private Kinder where they completed 1st grade curriculum by the end of the year and then we sent him to our local public school beginning with 1st grade. I was worried at the beginning of the year because he was hearing alot of the same stuff, but the teacher did start to differentiate the groups through the year, whether it was advancing them in math, language, etc... Same thing this year.... so maintain your open communication with the teacher and don't be afraid to suggest/ask about opportunities for Jaea to work on advanced topics (our teachers send kids to the next grade classroom for certain subjects during the day).

thanks so much Joy - this is really helpful - I dont have the experience to know whether or not it will all even out.

I guess I am also disappointed at the low level of involvement of the parents - they are not pushing for a strong curriculum. I don't even know if it is possible that kids be pulled out and put in with a different reading, math group etc. I think I will inquire about this for next year when they are full time.

The socio-economic level of the school is very low - many families below the poverty line. This doesn't mean the school has to be sub-standard but from what I have seen the parental involvement level is minimal. I asked other parents about going in for a conference and many said they hadn't seen any problems and didn't see the need for it.

There really aren't any strong private schools in our area - they would have to go over an hour away which is too much for this age. Our local private schools aren't really academic enclaves - lol - this is Woodstock after all.

I am more concerned that right now Jaea is in with the wrong age group - not even whether the curriculum is appropriate. I think I will push to have her next year with at least a few girls who are spring birthdays rather than all fall birthdays.

 

[bubbasmom99]

Point well taken, Joy - I know I am being silly but Jaea would not have cut another child's coat even several years ago. It just seemed an indicator to me of the level of maturity of the other girls in her class.

Giona, on the other hand, experiments with it all and cut across the knee of a brand new pair of corduroy pants (I'm particularly attached to our cords) when he was learning to use scissors independently about a year ago.

Oh I thought you meant that the girl cut her own coat pocket, not Jaea's... that would p*ss me off too... but I have seen just about everything so nothing surprises me anymore.

Some the socio-economic factors can be hard to swallow when you have your child's best interest in mind... but I only hope and pray that it gives my children a better and broader view of the world around them -- sometimes I fear that they have grown up in so much privilege that they will lose sight of those who are less fortunate than them. Esp. at Christmas, it was hard to try to get through the idea of kids not getting everything they want for Christmas... such a foreign concept for my kids.

 

[lbgraves]

We had this same separation, only just two classes of 30 some kids. The smart class and the dumb class. Then to top that off we were assisgned seats in order of our ranking in the classs.....smartest kid front seat at the left of the room, dumbest kid in the last seat at the right of the room. So, we had the smartest kid in the smart class and the dumbest kid in the dumb class and everybody knew who they were. OY! Don't be that kid!! I think WAY back then the thought was that you would try harder to get moved up.

UGH! How demoralizing that must have been. We were seated alphabetically so I was usually in the back left corner of the room but at least it was because of my name.

 

[lbgraves]

I guess I am also disappointed at the low level of involvement of the parents - they are not pushing for a strong curriculum. I don't even know if it is possible that kids be pulled out and put in with a different reading, math group etc. I think I will inquire about this for next year when they are full time.

The socio-economic level of the school is very low - many families below the poverty line. This doesn't mean the school has to be sub-standard but from what I have seen the parental involvement level is minimal. I asked other parents about going in for a conference and many said they hadn't seen any problems and didn't see the need for it.

Elaine, you could be writing about our school. I find it pathetic that more parents don't know what goes on inside the school building. We have to beg to get them to come out to help us with PTO projects that will benefit their children in the long run. Most parents do not know what the AR program is or even where their child's classroom is. Some parents have come in and signed in for programs and said they don't know who the teacher is. OY!

I have emailed and talked with William's teacher a great deal keeping each other up to date with how he is doing and coming up with new challenges as he gets bored. On the other hand, I haven't talked with Kaitlyn's teacher regarding her schooling since the first night we met before school. I have talked to the principal & assistant regarding that bully but I see no need to regarding her studies.

 

[dh chrisva]

All,

Since we have been talking about the 2008 possible Panama Repo cruise I emailed my TA and asked her if it becomes a reality to sign us up for the Eastbound Repo as soon as it's available. This was her response:

"Mike,

Of course I’ll keep an eye out—word is they will announce the 2008 new itineraries on 1/17 and I’ll have you on the list."

So hopefully we should know by this time next week..

 

[lbgraves]

At least your TA seems to be legit with DCL.