You can accomplish just as much...if not more with FastPass+!!!!!

[SuperRob]

Now obviously we don't know what September/October will look like compared to spring break, but already it seems as if the early morning advantage has been cut down from perhaps three hours before standby would creep upwards, down to an hour, TOPS!

What makes you say this? Obviously your own touring is going to need to change a bit, but to suggest that the early morning advantage is gone is kind of silly. My own plan will be to pre-select headliners for 11AM-1PM, riding standby from rope drop pretty much until lunch. Use the three FP+ selections, then hit a kiosk to see what's available. The nice thing about the new system is you'll be able to do that at ANY nearby kiosk ... you don't have to go to the ride. This also allows you to make quick adjustments if the wait for a FP ride is longer than you want.

I figure doing that, I can get six or more Fastpasses, lots of rides, and might even be able to FP a nighttime show, too. I don't see any reason why a rope-drop strategy changes with the new system. I would be willing to bet that many of the less savvy guests will do something like Fastpass character meets or fireworks with their initial selections, keeping FP opportunities reasonable for the rest of us.

The Epcot secondary rides (Spaceship Earth, etc) don't look that bad for us personally, but Animal Kingdom doesn't look all that great in the afternoon...not sure what our plan of attack will be there, I guess rope drop, then our fast pass, and then take our chances for additional fast passes.

That's pretty much going to be my plan for every park. We're rarely riding anything in Animal Kingdom past noon anyway, using that time to do the animal exhibits (or drying off from Kali).

 

[NavyDad]

There is a very important concept to keep in mind here:

When Josh says rides C, D, E & F are experiencing longer STANDBY wait times due to more people using Fast Pass for those rides, he is not really saying that the system is either a good or bad thing.

He is presenting some data and giving some context.

The problem still is that people are cherry picking the data and attributing final conclusions to him that he is not making to suit their own agenda......(also there are people that just are not fully understanding what he is presenting or not reading his posts for themselves)

 

[andyman8]

If I could insert my peculiar opinion, I don't think there truly is a definitive answer to "with FP+, are the parks better or worse?". Certainly, there are perks like some increased FP availability, being able to reserve FP+s in advance, and not having to wake up early everyday. At the same time, there are definitely drawbacks like the intense scheduling, increased standby times at rides, and occasional blips with the system (please don't go and try to disprove and prove these points; that's not the main focus of this post). With this in mind, there are aspects of the day that FP+ really improves and aspects that make it much worse.

But with all that in mind, FP+ isn't going away, so while I might not be in love with the new system, Disney sunk what is now approaching $2 billion in this endeavor so it's not going away. This doesn't mean I'm embracing or loving it but I'm making do and after having several chances to try it out, it didn't ruin and regulate my experience like I'd expected it to.

 

[SuperRob]

There is a very important concept to keep in mind here:

When Josh says rides C, D, E & F are experiencing longer STANDBY wait times due to more people using Fast Pass for those rides, he is not really saying that the system is either a good or bad thing.

He is presenting some data and giving some context.

The problem still is that people are cherry picking the data and attributing final conclusions to him that he is not making to suit their own agenda......(also there are people that just are not fully understanding what he is presenting or not reading his posts for themselves)

From his April 8th post (when Disney announced the new "rolling fourth" FastPass ...

This is not necessarily good news. When people say “We need more FastPass+,” they are not talking about you or I. They’re talking about themselves. As we saw in How FastPass+ is Affecting Wait Times, guests arriving at attractions with FP+ priority are having a significant impact on many secondary attractions, to the point where waits at it’s a small world, Spaceship Earth, and DINOSAUR have basically doubled under the new system. FastPass+ is great when you have one and sucks when you don’t, much like traditional FASTPASS. The ability to schedule more and more and more FP+ into the evening means more people with priority and longer waits in standby lines.

Emphasis is mine.

You say that Josh presents data and provides context. It's the context, however, that is frequently colored by his own opinions. Not saying he doesn't have every right to do that ... it's his site. I'm just saying that people need to know where there's bias and adjust for it.

My personal observation is that Josh is preoccupied with Standby wait times, which his site is supposed to be helping you avoid. If Standby waits are increasing because of "more people with priority", isn't that exactly what should be happening? More people getting through more rides, and you should only be riding Standby at non-peak times. Which is what he says, but it's the language behind it that's being perceived (by me) as negative. He could just as easily say that FastPass+ is great, because you're avoiding standby lines that are increasing. But he doesn't say it, even though that's what he personally experienced.

And what I don't understand is why he's framing it negatively when the entire reason for his site is to make a WDW trip "easy" ... but he doesn't position it that way. I literally don't understand why he's focusing on the negative when he's ostensibly providing that service. He doesn't make it sound like visiting WDW can be an easy experience. I think he does people a disservice with the tone of some of those posts, particularly where FastPass+ is involved.

 

[momtosam]

My friends just returned from being there the full week of Easter.
They felt that hands-down their best advantage had nothing to do with FP+, but utilizing the MDE app for wait times. You don't hear much about the app, but I plan on relying on that during our upcoming trip and see where it takes us. We'll definitely FP our must do's but I think most choices will be made on the app's wait times. We'll see what happens -- but I'm definitely going to go with a positive attitude. I can't wait to be there!

 

[AndreaA]

My personal observation is that Josh is preoccupied with Standby wait times, which his site is supposed to be helping you avoid. If Standby waits are increasing because of "more people with priority", isn't that exactly what should be happening? More people getting through more rides, and you should only be riding Standby at non-peak times. Which is what he says, but it's the language behind it that's being perceived (by me) as negative. He could just as easily say that FastPass+ is great, because you're avoiding standby lines that are increasing. But he doesn't say it, even though that's what he personally experienced.

And what I don't understand is why he's framing it negatively when the entire reason for his site is to make a WDW trip "easy" ... but he doesn't position it that way. I literally don't understand why he's focusing on the negative when he's ostensibly providing that service.

I think he views it negatively (as many others do) because those increased SB lines and "more people with priority" are being CAUSED BY FP+. You could still have avoided riding standby back in the "old days" (although I never/rarely did) but now it's almost as if you HAVE to avoid riding standby or be stuck in ever-increasing standby lines. I'm not sure what's positive about the fact that rides that used to have short waits (POTC, HM, IASM) now have waits twice as long, thus FORCING you to prioritize them and either ride them early or get a FP+ for them.

I think that is what bugs me the most about this system. I don't want to NEED a FP+ in order to tour my way when I never even used the old FP system before.

 

[NavyDad]

From his April 8th post (when Disney announced the new "rolling fourth" FastPass ...



Emphasis is mine.

You say that Josh presents data and provides context. It's the context, however, that is frequently colored by his own opinions. Not saying he doesn't have every right to do that ... it's his site. I'm just saying that people need to know where there's bias and adjust for it.

My personal observation is that Josh is preoccupied with Standby wait times, which his site is supposed to be helping you avoid. If Standby waits are increasing because of "more people with priority", isn't that exactly what should be happening? More people getting through more rides, and you should only be riding Standby at non-peak times. Which is what he says, but it's the language behind it that's being perceived (by me) as negative. He could just as easily say that FastPass+ is great, because you're avoiding standby lines that are increasing. But he doesn't say it, even though that's what he personally experienced.

And what I don't understand is why he's framing it negatively when the entire reason for his site is to make a WDW trip "easy" ... but he doesn't position it that way. I literally don't understand why he's focusing on the negative when he's ostensibly providing that service. He doesn't make it sound like visiting WDW can be an easy experience. I think he does people a disservice with the tone of some of those posts, particularly where FastPass+ is involved.

I definitely get what your saying here(and I agree with most of it) but again I think even that quote is being taken out of context.

He is talking about the experience of walking up to one particular ride at a particular moment in time and comparing two situations. If you walk up to that ride with FP it is great but if you don't most likely will have a worse experience than before because many of the STBY times are longer.

I agree that he is focusing most of his analysis on the effect the system is having on STBY wait times but I believe that is due to the fact that he is getting tons of data on STBY wait times and not much hard data regarding FP usage or times.

Still, the real problem IMO is not that Josh is showing a lot of bias one way or the other but the fact that people a jumping on things and drawing their own conclusions and attributing them to Josh....

 

[NavyDad]

I think he views it negatively (as many others do) because those increased SB lines and "more people with priority" are being CAUSED BY FP+. You could still have avoided riding standby back in the "old days" (although I never/rarely did) but now it's almost as if you HAVE to avoid riding standby or be stuck in ever-increasing standby lines. I'm not sure what's positive about the fact that rides that used to have short waits (POTC, HM, IASM) now have waits twice as long, thus FORCING you to prioritize them and either ride them early or get a FP+ for them.

I think that is what bugs me the most about this system. I don't want to NEED a FP+ in order to tour my way when I never even used the old FP system before.

This post could not be a better example of what I have been describing......

 

[jade1]

I definitely get what your saying here(and I agree with most of it) but again I think even that quote is being taken out of context.

He is talking about the experience of walking up to one particular ride at a particular moment in time and comparing two situations. If you walk up to that ride with FP it is great but if you don't most likely will have a worse experience than before because many of the STBY times are longer.

I agree that he is focusing most of his analysis on the effect the system is having on STBY wait times but I believe that is due to the fact that he is getting tons of data on STBY wait times and not much hard data regarding FP usage or times.

Still, the real problem IMO is not that Josh is showing a lot of bias one way or the other but the fact that people a jumping on things and drawing their own conclusions and attributing them to Josh....

By the time you can theoretically select a fourth FP+, many of the top selections will be gone, including Toy Story Mania, Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster, Soarin’, and Test Track most days.

He says this is if its a sure fact. He did throw on a "most days" at the end for a CYA (although that appears to be just for TT). But it does seem he could have instead followed up with a "remain to be seen" or "we will check on this when it rolls out" or something, and then offer a new strategy.

But currently those were available today, and we will see if it really is most days over a year that you can't select any of these listed as a fourth.

 

[Shaden]

http://www.easywdw.com/uncategorize...led-ideal-morning-plan-day-2-friday-april-26/

"Overall, we were able to accomplish just as much as we would have under the old system, if not more with less walking and no need to backtrack."

Here is an excellent detailed write up by Josh with tons of pictures.....just do what he says and you'll be sure to have a good time at Disney. This here- is the truth----don't know of any folk crazy enough to question Josh!!!!!

I wouldn't Question Josh at all, but you aren't stating everything he said, or putting it in context.

Wasn't he just saying how bad FP+ was a week or 2 ago?

As Navy pointed out, he wasn't saying FP+ was a bad thing per se. He was saying that it was having a significant effect on increasing wait times, particularly in the afternoon and for secondary attractions.

All you need is no kids and possibly one of the greatest theme-park commando strategists of our time in your group, and you'll get done "just as much as before, if not more."

Now here is an important point, and what the OP completely skims over. Context is pretty dang key here. How much does this touring strategy apply to the average visitor ? How much does it apply to all the people who are talking about how great FP+ is because now they can sleep in ? Answer: It doesn't. It applies to RD, and a super commando touring strat. But, its still fair to say that its -possible- to do this, my Wife and I could for instance, no kids. But on the second week when the 11yr and 10yr olds and the 70 yr old shows up ... no chance.

These threads are too funny!

A few weeks back Josh posted some data that showed some secondary rides had longer lines due to increased use of Fast Pass Plus - this was obviously proof positive that the entire system was an epic failure.

Now - as Disney makes adjustments to an inherently more efficient system making it work more positive reviews are coming in from Josh and other sources and they are downplayed by some and celebrated by others. People just want to feel vindicated in their point of view.

This review takes place before any "adjustments" have been made, so your point is immediately off the mark.

And its still quite true that secondary rides have increased SB wait times, still quite easy to argue that is proof the system is epic fail.

The context here, again, is the key. This is RD, commando, no kids, and a perfect strategy. Josh even notes here that if you fall behind, and the crowds start catching up to you, yur done. You have to stay ahead of the crowds, which is why he moves in the particular order he does.

Also important to note, as he does, that several hundred people at RD are rushing over to A&E, not to the rides, and he uses this to his advantage.

Notice he also says ...

"With lingering Easter crowds and FastPass+ pushing up waits at secondary attractions, there are not as many options in the afternoon as there once were"


So a more accurate depiction of Josh's overall assessment would be something like this:

In the morning at RD we were able to do as much as we did with legacy FP, maybe more, with less walking ... so long as you don't have any kids or anything to slow you down and don't mind being stuck to a rigid schedule ... you too can do this ... however, take note that the afternoons are offering fewer options than they used to, which means if you were an all day park kinda person, you will get the same amount done in the morning (potentially) but less done after the crowds build around 11 or 12 for the rest of the day.

Of course, it really will be interesting to see what the changes just made end up doing to this, if anything at all. Some are speculating it will push people to use the FPs during the early part of the day, but then some speculated that already for FP+ before these changes. But careful to note, no adjustment has been made during this report.

 

[AndreaA]

This post could not be a better example of what I have been describing......

I'm not sure why. Are you going to argue that Josh or anyone is in favor of longer standby waits? Or that standby waits are not longer due to FP+ (which is pretty much exactly what his data is showing). Or that, as he says, FP+ is great if you have one, but not if you don't?

I'm not saying that I think Josh is biased against FP+. In fact, in an earlier post in this thread, I mentioned that I'm glad he is having things work with his touring plans much as they did before, but that his data is not supporting MY touring plan. And honestly, even I am not completely biased against FP+, I simply think it's silly to say that it's not going to negatively affect SB waits and thus those who relied heavily on them.

Personally, I think that Josh is pretty darn even keeled about the whole thing.

 

[Shaden]

This post could not be a better example of what I have been describing......

Notice the PP didn't attribute any of the thoughts or feelings or conclusions they had as Josh's feelings, other than to say "I think he views it negatively" ... then carrying on with their own perceptions .... so that's actually a terrible example of what you are trying to highlight.

 

[SuperRob]

By the time you can theoretically select a fourth FP+, many of the top selections will be gone, including Toy Story Mania, Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster, Soarin’, and Test Track most days. He says this is if its a sure fact. He did throw on a "most days" at the end for a CYA (although that appears to be just for TT). But it does seem he could have instead followed up with a "remain to be seen" or "we will check on this when it rolls out" or something, and then offer a new strategy. But currently those were available today, and we will see if it really is most days over a year that you can't select any of these listed as a fourth.

Several people have posted on various forums today that they got TSM as their fourth FastPass. Anecdotal, sure, but there you have it.

 

[AndreaA]

Notice the PP didn't attribute any of the thoughts or feelings or conclusions they had as Josh's feelings, other than to say "I think he views it negatively" ... then carrying on with their own perceptions .... so that's actually a terrible example of what you are trying to highlight.

And I actually meant to type that "I think he 'frames it negatively'..." to match the language of the post I was quoting.

 

[NavyDad]

I think he views it negatively (as many others do) because those increased SB lines and "more people with priority" are being CAUSED BY FP+. You could still have avoided riding standby back in the "old days" (although I never/rarely did) but now it's almost as if you HAVE to avoid riding standby or be stuck in ever-increasing standby lines. I'm not sure what's positive about the fact that rides that used to have short waits (POTC, HM, IASM) now have waits twice as long, thus FORCING you to prioritize them and either ride them early or get a FP+ for them.

I think that is what bugs me the most about this system. I don't want to NEED a FP+ in order to tour my way when I never even used the old FP system before.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Like many others from both viewpoints you are cherry picking things Josh says that jives with your personal opinions of either individual aspects of the system or the system overall and then concluding that "he views it negatively".

I'm not trying to single you out in particular. Almost everybody is doing this assuming Josh is coming down one way or the other regarding the system. If you read his recent posts regarding FP Plus there is no way you can say Josh is either for it or against it in any way IMO....

 

[NavyDad]

Notice the PP didn't attribute any of the thoughts or feelings or conclusions they had as Josh's feelings, other than to say "I think he views it negatively" ... then carrying on with their own perceptions .... so that's actually a terrible example of what you are trying to highlight.

That's actually the perfect example......

1. Characterize what you think Josh is saying = "I think he views it negatively"
2. Cherry Pick certain things Josh describes = "More people with priority"
3. Correlate it to your own opinion/situation = "I'm not sure what's positive..........I think that is what bugs me the most about this system..."

 

[SuperRob]

This is exactly what I am talking about. Like many others from both viewpoints you are cherry picking things Josh says that jives with your personal opinions of either individual aspects of the system or the system overall and then concluding that "he views it negatively". I'm not trying to single you out in particular. Almost everybody is doing this assuming Josh is coming down one way or the other regarding the system. If you read his recent posts regarding FP Plus there is no way you can say Josh is either for it or against it in any way IMO....

If you read the comments on his site, you can see that most of his readers are assuming the same thing, and if/when he replies, he doesn't attempt to change that perception. Is it so unfair to assume that perception is correct?

Anyway, I think I've said all there is to say from my viewpoint. Time to move on.

 

[NavyDad]

If you read the comments on his site, you can see that most of his readers are assuming the same thing, and if/when he replies, he doesn't attempt to change that perception. Is it so unfair to assume that perception is correct?

Anyway, I think I've said all there is to say from my viewpoint. Time to move on.

Actually, in his first analysis of FP+ I think he did call out the DIS Boards and another theme park board for people over-reacting to his post. I've seen him do this more than once.....

Also - whether people are in fact jumping to conclusions or whether or not it is reasonable for people to jump to conclusions is a different debate.

Obviously Josh is a data-driven person (I can relate) and I think he is slightly amused by, but mostly tries to ignore the emotion-driven noise that surrounds everything WDW and FP related.

 

[morethananyonex]

Sure, you definitely can accomplish just as much if not more with FP+ if you arrive at rope drop.

That's an important little part that was conveniently left out of the title . Josh's touring strategies clearly work, but the key to all (or almost all?) is he arrives at about 8:15/8:20 for a 9:00 AM opening, and moves strategically through the park staying ahead of the crowds. They are great strategies if you are a rope drop person.

For all the people who rave about how FP+ allows them to sleep in, have breakfast somewhere, go slow, and so on, this type of touring strategy will never work. They will be more impacted by the longer stand by lines that attractions are seeing because of FP+, leaving those people relying even more so on their FP+ reservations (or the longer SB lines).

IMO, the rope drop strategy is very similar to FP- days, except for of course the obvious not pulling the paper FP. It hasn't been impacted a ton yet (could very well be once the potential effects of the 4th FP are felt). The real impact so far is seen in the secondary lines in the busiest part of the day. Therefore, personally I don't feel FP+ allows you to accomplish more if you were the type to stay in the park for most of the day, as the afternoons have been significantly impacted while the mornings have stayed similar to FP- days.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Several people have posted on various forums today that they got TSM as their fourth FastPass. Anecdotal, sure, but there you have it.

The crowd level is a 3 or 4. Sheesh. It's not like this is summer or Christmas crowds. Not to mention, this isn't widely available knowledge yet. Yep, we on the DIS and various sites are very aware of it.

Speculation would lead one to believe that if you go during low crowd seasons this may be your reality. Sweet deal. For those that travel during busier times it may not be. We won't know that until they "test" summer and Christmas. That means we have 7 more months of not really knowing what the heck is going on. Luckily we have people like Josh that have access to data that can actually track this stuff. Do you think you would get it from Disney? He is going to call it like he sees it, one way or the other.

Perhaps if he put it in a glossy brochure and explained it's "magical" potential you would understand. Maybe not.