Yelling - is it child abuse?

[ronandannette]

I think it is. My father was a yeller, not a spanker, but yelled all the time. Didn't name call or anything but was always yelling. To this day I hate raised voices of any kind, it makes me feel shaky and nervous inside.

Mine weren’t yellers and you better believe when they did raise their voices I snapped to. I was a reasonably compliant kid though, unlike my DS who has always wanted to march to his own beat. I just assumed he would behave the same way that I did and that the way I was parented would be effective for him too. It wasn’t.

 

[GreatLakes]

No. Yelling isn't abuse. What you are yelling can be emotional abuse but the volume of the what you are yelling isn't what makes it abuse or not, it is the content.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

It Depends TM(R)

 

[tex1989]

Throughout my life I have tried to use common sense in any and all situations. If you don't like to be yelled at, don't yell at others. If you don't like to be called stupid, don't call others stupid, etc. When it comes to children there are certainly occasions when raising your voice is necessary/ the best way to get there attention. The problem I have is when others told me how to raise my children. While obvious abusive situations should be called out others are none of anyone else's business. And in keeping with the idea that I did not like being told by others how to raise children I should not tell others the same.

However, when being scolded by a mother whose children's names are Starry Moonbeam, and Butterfly Kisses about how I need to let my kids run naked through the park because it was an expression of their oneness with nature I tended to ignore the advise and stick with my beliefs. My point as outrageous an example as I gave is that when people take their opinions far enough that they want to enact, laws, rules, or social norms that differ from many folks opinions then I have a problem with them.

Freedom to live your life the way you see fit is what our country is founded on, where to draw the line between freedom, and maintaining a safe environment for all children is the razors edge we walk everyday on thousands of issues.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

We just had a conversation in this vein with our 12 year old nephew yesterday!

Him: cleaning his room, picking up One.Sock.At.A.Time. and bringing it over to the dirty clothes pile across the room.
Me: It's going to take you a long time to get this room cleaned if you keep bring over one sock at a time. Why wouldn't you just grab ALL of them at once and bring them together?
Him: (smiling and continuing to pick up and carry one sock at a time) "I don't know, hahahaha"...repeat, repeat, repeat.
Me: (after watching 3 more trips, and I'm yelling now) "It's NOT a suggestion! WHY do I have to yell and be mean before you realize that I'm being serious??!!"

We are very big on phrasing things in a way that makes the kids think about what they are doing, and having a chance to self-correct. Clearly the 12 year old has issues with this. It's a work in progress, but we keep at it because it's a valuable life-lesson that everyone should know. It would be easy to say "Pick up everything and bring it over at one time", but this is a child who has been conditioned to "do" and not to think. We are trying to change this, and it's been two years now. Incidents like this happen multiple times a day, and at this point, I think he is messing with me lol But it gets frustrating. I try to be patient, but when it's the 5th time that day and he STILL isn't paying attention or "getting it" and I KNOW he is capable, I yell.

If I don't raise my voice at that point, I will lower it and speak very slowly - "Pick. Up. ALL. Your. Clothes. and bring them over here, in ONE big pile." I don't think it sounds any nicer or better than yelling, TBH.

either way, NOT child abuse!

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

We just had a conversation in this vein with our 12 year old nephew yesterday!

Him: cleaning his room, picking up One.Sock.At.A.Time. and bringing it over to the dirty clothes pile across the room.
Me: It's going to take you a long time to get this room cleaned if you keep bring over one sock at a time. Why wouldn't you just grab ALL of them at once and bring them together?
Him: (smiling and continuing to pick up and carry one sock at a time) "I don't know, hahahaha"...repeat, repeat, repeat.
Me: (after watching 3 more trips, and I'm yelling now) "It's NOT a suggestion! WHY do I have to yell and be mean before you realize that I'm being serious??!!"

We are very big on phrasing things in a way that makes the kids think about what they are doing, and having a chance to self-correct. Clearly the 12 year old has issues with this. It's a work in progress, but we keep at it because it's a valuable life-lesson that everyone should know. It would be easy to say "Pick up everything and bring it over at one time", but this is a child who has been conditioned to "do" and not to think. We are trying to change this, and it's been two years now. Incidents like this happen multiple times a day, and at this point, I think he is messing with me lol But it gets frustrating. I try to be patient, but when it's the 5th time that day and he STILL isn't paying attention or "getting it" and I KNOW he is capable, I yell.

If I don't raise my voice at that point, I will lower it and speak very slowly - "Pick. Up. ALL. Your. Clothes. and bring them over here, in ONE big pile." I don't think it sounds any nicer or better than yelling, TBH.

either way, NOT child abuse!

I think it’s a 12 year old thing. Mine will be 12 on Wednesday.

 

[TheConsciousness]

Can you share some of the memes or quotes you've seen from your group?
Because this is why we have an information problem today, too many people telling others how they should do things, but giving zero examples.
Ambiguity is the cause of a lot of our issues.

 

[amberpi]

Can you share some of the memes or quotes you've seen from your group?
Because this is why we have an information problem today, too many people telling others how they should do things, but giving zero examples.
Ambiguity is the cause of a lot of our issues.

Here are some memes but my stepmom group is closed and won't share from there. It's mostly rants against spanking and yelling in any case and if you can't parent without these things you are a failure. I know my behavior is perfectly sound; I wasn't really needing a gut check. I am very careful with my language to the kids. I'm just confused about people that never do it and especially those that think that they can cast dispersions on others for it, even when warranted.

 

[DLgal]

It is abuse if you do it knowing the child cannot tolerate loud noises.

This recently happened in a special needs classroom (I forget where, but it was probably Florida). Many kids with autism are hypersensitive to sound. Loud noises cause physical pain. An aide was recently arrested for assault/abuse because she removed an autistic student's noise reducing earmuffs SPECIFICALLY so she could yell at him, knowing it would cause him physical discomfort. She did this repeatedly, while indicating that she knew the yelling would bother the child. Makes my stomach turn thinking about it.

My son has this issue and we don't yell in this house because of it. If I did yell, which I do occasionally out of anger, I immediately apologize and feel horrible.

My personal feeling is that yelling is generally not necessary, and is an abuse of power over a child. If an adult yelled at another in a workplace environment, I might consider that verbal abuse as well.

Yelling to get attention to a legitimate safety issue is okay. However, I do not think that yelling at a child who is climbing on furniture is a safety issue. That's a child misbehaving, and I would approach that differently, personally. I would go up to the child and quietly and firmly tell him "get down right now...we do not climb on things in this house." Serves the same purpose and I find a lower, more serious voice more effective at conveying a rule to children. Going right up to them and stone facing while you say it will get the point across much better than yelling.

The American Academy of Pediatricians considers yelling to be as hurtful as hitting a child. They consider both practices to be abusive and harmful to child development. I generally agree.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm gonna go with intent here.

Yelling can be a form of intimidation or someone who has anger issues. When it's used like that it can be harmful and a form of emotional and verbal abuse.

Yelling because your kid is about to do something to do with safety or because you're completely exasperated when they aren't listening on somelike like household chores would not be verbal abuse IMO especially when used in correct ways rather than constantly.

Kids can usually tell the difference. They may not like being yelled at to clean their room but there's a difference in that and yelling at them will ill intent.

That said if you yelled from day one for all sorts of things I would imagine it would blur the lines too much and could lean a lot more towards being at least harmful.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It is abuse if you do it knowing the child cannot tolerate loud noises.

I would consider that intent rather than the mere fact that yelling occurred.

To knowingly continue to inflict pain on your child because you know that loud noises hurts their ears isn't the same as yelling to a kid no it's really time to clean your room already told you many many times go do it, all of course IMO.

 

[amberpi]

It is abuse if you do it knowing the child cannot tolerate loud noises.

This recently happened in a special needs classroom (I forget where, but it was probably Florida). Many kids with autism are hypersensitive to sound. Loud noises cause physical pain. An aide was recently arrested for assault/abuse because she removed an autistic student's noise reducing earmuffs SPECIFICALLY so she could yell at him, knowing it would cause him physical discomfort. She did this repeatedly, while indicating that she knew the yelling would bother the child. Makes my stomach turn thinking about it.

My son has this issue and we don't yell in this house because of it. If I did yell, which I do occasionally out of anger, I immediately apologize and feel horrible.

My personal feeling is that yelling is generally not necessary, and is an abuse of power over a child. If an adult yelled at another in a workplace environment, I might consider that verbal abuse as well.

Yelling to get attention to a legitimate safety issue is okay. However, I do not think that yelling at a child who is climbing on furniture is a safety issue. That's a child misbehaving, and I would approach that differently, personally. I would go up to the child and quietly and firmly tell him "get down right now...we do not climb on things in this house." Serves the same purpose and I find a lower, more serious voice more effective at conveying a rule to children. Going right up to them and stone facing while you say it will get the point across much better than yelling.

The American Academy of Pediatricians considers yelling to be as hurtful as hitting a child. They consider both practices to be abusive and harmful to child development. I generally agree.

First, that example is terrible. What a mean terrible human would intentionally want to hurt an special needs (or any) child? Yikes?

For my part, climbing on the furniture IS a safety issue. The tables that are all around the couches are concrete topped; like takes multiple grown men to move them, concrete. If anyone fell and busted their head; it'd be bad. But I really wasn't talking about my own behavior here. I've never so much as yelled at the kids to clean up (they are very small). I was just shocked at how people can be so pushy about their parenting and wondering if folks really don't ever yell. I think for a kid with special needs the paradigm would be very different. I grew up occasionally being yelled at and it wasn't a big deal. My parents were never calling me names or anything like that though; it was more "you're going to be late" normal kid stuff when I wasn't listening, ya know?

Thank you for pointing out the bolded though. I think everyone on the thread can use to hear that and maybe yell a little less.

 

[amberpi]

I think it is. My father was a yeller, not a spanker, but yelled all the time. Didn't name call or anything but was always yelling. To this day I hate raised voices of any kind, it makes me feel shaky and nervous inside.

I'm so sorry you experienced that

 

[DLgal]

The curious thing about people who say that it's okay to yell at your child for "normal kid stuff" like doing chores and being late is that I always wonder: do these parents tolerate their child yelling at THEM, ever? Likely not. If your child yelled back, I am willing to bet that NO ONE would ever consider that acceptable. And why is that? Respect. However, I think kids deserve respect at all times too, even when you are annoyed with them. Respect, as they say, is a two way street.

Besides, kids are supposed to model the kind of behavior they see from their parents and the adults in charge of them. If you yell, you are teaching them that yelling is an acceptable way to communicate, and they are going to, in turn, yell at their kids in the future. It's the same cycle that perpetuates other abusive behaviors.

Because my son is autistic, he mirrors the communication style and volume that is used towards him. When I inadvertently yell at him, he yells right back, and I find myself VERY angry when he does that, but then realize it's totally my fault for yelling at him first.

 

[BLAZEY]

I always tell my daughter if I'm yelling it because A: you didn't hear and respond the first time I asked nicely. Or B: I will (yell) if my voice has to carry some distance or through walls and I'm not able to go to her to ask quietly.

 

[Turn the Page]

We just had a conversation in this vein with our 12 year old nephew yesterday!

Him: cleaning his room, picking up One.Sock.At.A.Time. and bringing it over to the dirty clothes pile across the room.
Me: It's going to take you a long time to get this room cleaned if you keep bring over one sock at a time. Why wouldn't you just grab ALL of them at once and bring them together?
Him: (smiling and continuing to pick up and carry one sock at a time) "I don't know, hahahaha"...repeat, repeat, repeat.
Me: (after watching 3 more trips, and I'm yelling now) "It's NOT a suggestion! WHY do I have to yell and be mean before you realize that I'm being serious??!!"

We are very big on phrasing things in a way that makes the kids think about what they are doing, and having a chance to self-correct. Clearly the 12 year old has issues with this. It's a work in progress, but we keep at it because it's a valuable life-lesson that everyone should know. It would be easy to say "Pick up everything and bring it over at one time", but this is a child who has been conditioned to "do" and not to think. We are trying to change this, and it's been two years now. Incidents like this happen multiple times a day, and at this point, I think he is messing with me lol But it gets frustrating. I try to be patient, but when it's the 5th time that day and he STILL isn't paying attention or "getting it" and I KNOW he is capable, I yell.

If I don't raise my voice at that point, I will lower it and speak very slowly - "Pick. Up. ALL. Your. Clothes. and bring them over here, in ONE big pile." I don't think it sounds any nicer or better than yelling, TBH.

either way, NOT child abuse!

Solidarity sister. SD8 is very similar.

We have a lot of "what do you think would be a good solution to this problem?" and "what do you think you could have done differently?" in our house. A prime example, a few weeks ago the toilet in the main floor bathroom was clogged. We told the kids not to use that bathroom until we fixed it the next day. This toilet also has a tendency for the flapper to get stuck and just keep running. First thing Sunday morning what does she do? Immediately goes and uses that bathroom and the flapper inevitably got stuck. By the time I realized what was happening and got down there water had overflowed the bowl, flooded the bathroom, and was spreading through the hall and had drenched the utility room in the basement while she is just standing in the hallway watching it. I will admit to some shrieking of "WHATAREYOUDOING? DON'TJUSTSTANDTHEREGOGETTOWELS!!!!!" Later on when everything was cleaned up I asked her what she thought she should have done differently next time. She thinks about it for a second and says "ummm......moved the box?" I have no idea what box she was talking about but no, we were going for let someone know you need help.

 

[pahoben]

I have six year old fraternal twins and when they are separate I never have to raise my voice with either one. When they are together their individual brains turn off and they have a group brain that is focused on their preferred activities and doesn’t listen at all well to their parents. As an example after five times telling them that it is time to brush their teeth and go to bed with zero reaction both my wife and I tend to raise our voices and that does get action.

Time outs and time without iPad has limited impact on their behavior. I will give an example of the limits. Last night we were in a mall and they started running after each other in a store and they know that is not allowed. I told them that no iPad when we get home because you know no running in stores. Their individual brains took over and each was heartbroken and professed it would never ever happen again. Ten minutes later in a different store their group brain was back in control and they were running after each other again. I stopped them and reminded them ten minutes prior we had a conversation about running in stores-their individual brains engaged and they assured me it wouldn’t ever ever happen again (I am sure it will very next time in a store and their group brain takes over). I asked what should I do in this case as their father. Both agreed I should not allow them their iPads for another day. I agreed and they complained about not having their iPads for two days.

Whenever their group brain is in charge it will not be influenced by the consequences of their actions but their group brain does respond to a raised voice. I could confine them to their rooms for weeks and individually they would be consumed with guilt but jointly no long term impact.

Funny about punishing kids by no iPad. I guess that means I was being punished my entire childhood.

All kids are different and these simple little rules that all parents are expected to follow just do not reflect how individual children are and sometimes seem intended to provide parents a reason to feel good about themselves by following these rules. Some kids have high activity levels and some don’t, some are fearful and some aren’t, some are strong willed and some aren’t. How can you have one size fits all rules.

 

[cabanafrau]

Context is key.

 

[LSUmiss]

Um ,no it isnt. Depending on the situation it can be good or bad , but it dosent rise to child abuse. When i took my now ex wife to court for lots of stuff, i was told stuff like not feeding, giving the child rotten food , leaving the child at daycare and stuff like that was neglect. And dosent rise to the crime of abuse.

Criminal abuse & abuse are not the same thing. Emotional abuse is abuse but (at least for now) is not a crime.

 

[pahoben]

Solidarity sister. SD8 is very similar.

We have a lot of "what do you think would be a good solution to this problem?" and "what do you think you could have done differently?" in our house. A prime example, a few weeks ago the toilet in the main floor bathroom was clogged. We told the kids not to use that bathroom until we fixed it the next day. This toilet also has a tendency for the flapper to get stuck and just keep running. First thing Sunday morning what does she do? Immediately goes and uses that bathroom and the flapper inevitably got stuck. By the time I realized what was happening and got down there water had overflowed the bowl, flooded the bathroom, and was spreading through the hall and had drenched the utility room in the basement while she is just standing in the hallway watching it. I will admit to some shrieking of "WHATAREYOUDOING? DON'TJUSTSTANDTHEREGOGETTOWELS!!!!!" Later on when everything was cleaned up I asked her what she thought she should have done differently next time. She thinks about it for a second and says "ummm......moved the box?" I have no idea what box she was talking about but no, we were going for let someone know you need help.

I really liked this story. What a good answer when asked what you should have done and you don’t have a clue....umm moved the box?