WWYD - Son and friends question

[LuvOrlando]

I am defending him because as far as we know, he has done nothing wrong.

You're basically accusing the guy of being a child molester, or some other evil thing, because you think he is weird and he doesn't behave like you think he should behave.

No, I am saying he is displaying worrisome characteristics. I am not saying he should be thrown in jail. I am saying if it was my kids I would not tolerate an adult, any adult with or without disabilities of any kind to hang out with my 11 year old like he was 11 ESPECIALLY if I had no knowledge of his family and if my DH said he didn't like it.

No wonder abusers get so many kids with all the adults in the world doing all their work of convincing people how fine it is that they hang out with kids. It's not fine. Adults belong with adults and kids belong with kids.

 

[LuvOrlando]

This may be true, but it still doesn't mean he has done anything wrong or that he will ever do anything wrong.

On this we can agree, but you also can not say he has not done anything wrong nor that he will never do anything wrong.

 

[ols386]

No, I am saying he is displaying worrisome characteristics. I am not saying he should be thrown in jail. I am saying if it was my kids I would not tolerate an adult, any adult with or without disabilities of any kind to hang out with my 11 year old like he was 11.

No wonder abusers get so many kids with all the adults in the world doing all their work of convincing people how fine it is that they hang out with kids.

There's another blank statement, and one that is not true.

 

[LuvOrlando]

There's another blank statement, and one that is not true.

On this I guess we can disagree.

 

[ols386]

On this we can agree, but you also can not say he has not done anything wrong nor that he will never do anything wrong.

What has he done wrong?

 

[ols386]

No, I am saying he is displaying worrisome characteristics. I am not saying he should be thrown in jail. I am saying if it was my kids I would not tolerate an adult, any adult with or without disabilities of any kind to hang out with my 11 year old like he was 11 ESPECIALLY if I had no knowledge of his family and if my DH said he didn't like it.

No wonder abusers get so many kids with all the adults in the world doing all their work of convincing people how fine it is that they hang out with kids. It's not fine. Adults belong with adults and kids belong with kids.

I did not say it's fine to let our children hang out with abusers. So now you know that he is an abuser?

 

[freckles and boo]

If Jim has autism he is very unlikely to have the "theory of mind" necessary to groom a child for abuse. I have a kid with autism, too. She is young but I am very grateful to the kids and adults in my neighborhood for not only tolerating her but including her. A person who is stuck developmentally isn't necessarily a danger to anyone. As a parent, I would keep an eye on things but I also wouldn't automatically assume he is in any way dangerous.

 

[princessmom29]

If Jim has autism he is very unlikely to have the "theory of mind" necessary to groom a child for abuse. I have a kid with autism, too. She is young but I am very grateful to the kids and adults in my neighborhood for not only tolerating her but including her. A person who is stuck developmentally isn't necessarily a danger to anyone. As a parent, I would keep an eye on things but I also wouldn't automatically assume he is in any way dangerous.

Exactly right.

 

[MushyMushy]

#3, the father doesn't like it. Why on earth shouldn't the father's instincts be trusted? Most men rarely weigh in on this sort of thing, so when they do I think their words should be heeded. If my DH ever said, "I don't want ---- around the kids", that would be the end of the conversation. I'm a girl so I get how we do things and girl double speak, DH is a guy so he gets the guy code of behavior and guy double speak... I would never ever blow off my DH's opinion on other men's behavior. Why on earth dismiss the kids' father? In favor of a stranger no less, what is up with that?

This is the one part of your post that I totally agree with -- the rest, I can see where you're coming from for sure, but just don't get the feeling that's what's happening here. The age disparity is troublesome no matter what mental issues the man might have. I'd feel differently if the 17 year old wanted to let him in on a few games of basketball. Probably wouldn't have a problem with that. But the 11 year old, yeah I wouldn't go for that.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Evey time some creep gets carted off to jail the papers have tons of stories about what a good person he/she was, how much good they did in the community. Recently we had a very popular high profile teacher who created a prestigious Monagacci program arrested for abusing a kid, the teachers name Gregory Ritter. He was even awarded by Disney for excellence in teaching. Everyone loved him and no-one questioned his weekends out in the woods with students without parents present as chaperons. Like most he showed few outward signs to the people around him... except his victim that is. Then we had the longtime baseball coach Daniel Schaefer who also messed with kids. Again, everybody loved him... no-one questioned why a grown man without children spent all his free time at a baseball park coaching kids and inviting them over to his house to 'practice' in his basement. He was supposedly gem of a guy, so much so that the league covered up the accusations until the story hit the papers. Some in the league said the kid was lying because he wanted more time on the field. Then we had the 'cool parent' Steven Russo who erected a exotic dancer pole in his basement and encouraged underage drinking and danging on the pole and use of 'the cave' he set up for the kids. Look them all up. These are all grown men put in positions where they had access to kids. I could come up with more examples but this should do it.

Adults who choose to be around kids SHOULD be scrutinized under a microscope. Some mean no harm, but some do and because of that subgroup no-one should get a free pass... no-one.

BECAUSE the father is uncomfortable it should end, that's all there is to it. Whether he has an IQ of 30 or 190 the guys mental status is irrelevant, the father's feelings should be respected as a valid concern. It's valid because our newspapers are full of this stuff day in & day-out, year after year, generation after generation. If a person thinks something is wrong, then I would bet something is wrong.

 

[freckles and boo]

These are all grown men put in positions where they had access to kids. I could come up with more examples but this should do it.

Adults who choose to be around kids SHOULD be scrutinized under a microscope. Some mean no harm, but some do and because of that subgroup no-one should get a free pass... no-one.

I agree that the parents should always be keeping an eye on things and asking the kids about the situation but the men you listed were all "normal" adults in positions of authority. I also agree that nobody should get a free pass. If it were my child I would introduce myself to Jim. I would try to get his story. (These are things I do before I let either of my kids play at ANYONE'S house). I would watch them interacting. However, I wouldn't slap a label on him and assume he is dangerous. The fact is, if Jim is truly autistic, he is far more likely to be a victim than a predator.

 

[karibritt01]

If he has autism, he is probably on the same age level mentally and emotionally as the kids he is hanging out with. He probably is also more comfortable with them because most kids that age are still honest ad accepting, and haven't learned how to be cruel. As they "outgrow" him, he will move on and make new friends.

OP, as for Jim "misbehaving" such as with the pellet gun, I think you need to talk to him as you would your DS's other friends. Let him know under no exceptions will that type of thing happen again, or he will not be allowed to be at your home for awhile. With his judgement impaired, he made benefit from some constructive "parenting" about the way he is expected to behave if he wants to play with your DS.

LuvOrlando... I can see where you are coming from with your post, but I do disagree. The abuser profile would be valid for a normal adult, but not for an adult with the emotional and mental development of a 12 yr old. I'm not saying that it will never happen to have an abuser who is autistic, but that you will not be to judge them by those same guidelines.

 

[Mkrop]

I dont think I would discourage the interaction but I think I would definitely take it as a time to remind my children about being safe around adults, and what is appropriate behavior and what isnt.

I feel bad for this guy and I am glad there are people out there giving him a chance.

 

[princessmom29]

Evey time some creep gets carted off to jail the papers have tons of stories about what a good person he/she was, how much good they did in the community. Recently we had a very popular high profile teacher who created a prestigious Monagacci program arrested for abusing a kid, the teachers name Gregory Ritter. He was even awarded by Disney for excellence in teaching. Everyone loved him and no-one questioned his weekends out in the woods with students without parents present as chaperons. Like most he showed few outward signs to the people around him... except his victim that is. Then we had the longtime baseball coach Daniel Schaefer who also messed with kids. Again, everybody loved him... no-one questioned why a grown man without children spent all his free time at a baseball park coaching kids and inviting them over to his house to 'practice' in his basement. He was supposedly gem of a guy, so much so that the league covered up the accusations until the story hit the papers. Some in the league said the kid was lying because he wanted more time on the field. Then we had the 'cool parent' Steven Russo who erected a exotic dancer pole in his basement and encouraged underage drinking and danging on the pole and use of 'the cave' he set up for the kids. Look them all up. These are all grown men put in positions where they had access to kids. I could come up with more examples but this should do it.

Adults who choose to be around kids SHOULD be scrutinized under a microscope. Some mean no harm, but some do and because of that subgroup no-one should get a free pass... no-one.

BECAUSE the father is uncomfortable it should end, that's all there is to it. Whether he has an IQ of 30 or 190 the guys mental status is irrelevant, the father's feelings should be respected as a valid concern. It's valid because our newspapers are full of this stuff day in & day-out, year after year, generation after generation. If a person thinks something is wrong, then I would bet something is wrong.

Not always. There are those for whom everyone is a threat. Their perception has been skewed by someone or something so that htey think that EVRYONE is out to getthem or their child. I have a friend who was abused as a child and is like this. She has her daughter terrified of everyone she meets. The child is never, ever out of her parent's sight for even a moment, and they think every adult who speaks to her is a child molestor. Her radar is flawed becuase of something that happened to her as a child so everyone is a threat. She freaked out over a birthday party for a 6 year old to be held a grandparent's house. The mom was a single mom living in an apartment. Her parents have a home on a lake and she decided to have the party there. She mentioned in passing to my friend that her Dad would be grilling hotdogs for the children. My friend went ballistic and told me she was reporting him as a suspected abuser because "what grown man want's to be at a child's birthday?" A "parent's instict" is not always right, and sometimes causes a parent to judge someone unfairly. My husband is guilty of this to a lesser degree mostly becuase he grew up in a household of all boys, and never really spent any time around little girls before DD was born. He didn't know what to expect with DD when she was born and is convinced that she is much more fragile than a boy and in much more danger from molesters, ect. He has to be reined in sometimes becuase he is hyper protective, and sees a potential threat when there is simply none there.

 

[iwrbnd]

In the town I grew up in we had Charlie. He is slow mentally, not sure of his true diagnosis. Charlie could always be found wandering around town, talking to anyone he saw, mostly kids, he lived on one of the streets that led to the high school. Charlie has been adopted by our town, he is at all the sports events. Has a school jacket, never misses a game(except this Thanksgiving, he was in the hospital, I cared for him and felt so bad. He was upset that he let the team down because he couldn't be there) He loves the kids and always wants to hang around with them, but in esscense he is a kid himself. Charlie is in his 50's now but still hangs with the kids, so he would have been in his 30's when I went to high school. He has never done anything, inappropriate. I am also friends with a mother of an autistic 20 yr old. He just got his first job, but I could see him behaving just like the man you are dealing with. I think he he got shunned it would be very hard for him. Have you ever thought of talking to his mother? She could probably give you some insight as to his diagnosis and emotional age. I am a nurse and we have to remember when dealing with people with disablilities that you have to talk to and treat them according to their emotional age, not chronological age.
Oh and for anybody that is curious about Charlie, he has a fan page on facebook(told you the town adopted him) go on facebook and look for the group fans of Charlie Bowlby(there is a picture of him dressed in a hotdog suit, he likes to help out too and he got dressed up for the local hotdog cart by the school, I smilied when I drove by after work and saw him waving at everybody, he looked so happy!)

I love stories like that! Thanks for sharing it!

 

[karibritt01]

Their perception has been skewed by someone or something so that htey think that EVRYONE is out to getthem or their child. I have a friend who was abused as a child and is like this. She has her daughter terrified of everyone she meets.

I have a friend like this as well. She had her children so terrified of strangers that her son had a panic attack when riding his bike because he thought someone was following him... it was a neighbor from down the street leaving the neighborhood. I took me years to make her understand that she was making her children terrified to be in their own yard without her standing over them... and it has a 6 foot privacy fence with locks on the gates!

 

[kirstenb1]

I agree that the parents should always be keeping an eye on things and asking the kids about the situation but the men you listed were all "normal" adults in positions of authority. I also agree that nobody should get a free pass. If it were my child I would introduce myself to Jim. I would try to get his story. (These are things I do before I let either of my kids play at ANYONE'S house). I would watch them interacting. However, I wouldn't slap a label on him and assume he is dangerous. The fact is, if Jim is truly autistic, he is far more likely to be a victim than a predator.

Amen. This is exactly what I thought when reading LuvOrlando's post. People with autism, and other mental disabilities are among the most vulnerable and most likely to become victimized. They tend to take people very literally, and are very trusting.

 

[LuvOrlando]

But the OP doesn't actually know this person has Autism? It sounded more like she was trying to name something peculiar than recite a fact. The Op seems to know next to nothing about this person. This guy just popped up in their lives 3 years ago and all she seems to know about him came out of his mouth other than the fact he likes to hang out with little kids. He's not a fixture in the community, he's just.... there.

I don't see how people DON'T think this is strange.

 

[MnMomtoboys]

I am so grateful that we have an ignore list here. Its one of the best things about the dis.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Seriously, the Op's DH and I are the only people who think it is wildly inappropriate for an adult (in this case a grown man) of ANY disposition to be hanging out with young kids?????

#1, it is not a child's job on any level and in any way to take care of, support or help an adult. I don't give a hoot what this person's sob story is... and why on earth would anyone believe it as truth anyway? This isn't a friend's son or someone with ties to the family. This is a grown man with a story that may or may not be true.... and I don't think it is true. Why on earth take this person at his word????

#2, child molesters look to kids precisely because they have been rejected by their peers. In my world him being a loner is a cause for another red flag bells and whistles, not pity.

#3, the father doesn't like it. Why on earth shouldn't the father's instincts be trusted? Most men rarely weigh in on this sort of thing, so when they do I think their words should be heeded. If my DH ever said, "I don't want ---- around the kids", that would be the end of the conversation. I'm a girl so I get how we do things and girl double speak, DH is a guy so he gets the guy code of behavior and guy double speak... I would never ever blow off my DH's opinion on other men's behavior. Why on earth dismiss the kids' father? In favor of a stranger no less, what is up with that?

#4, many child molesters groom kids for years and years before they pounce. Most are not derelicts that grab someone from out of the woods. Most are adults given access to children where the kids feel safe and what is more reassuring than the kids' parents giving it a nod? Ever notice how they tend to be teachers, scout leaders, coaches, boyfriends or girlfriends, step parents, pastors, friends' parents? The one thing all these categories have in common is that other adults sanction the contact with kids which allows them to get in under the radar. All they need is an opening, they'll do the rest.

#5, it's just flat out weird for an adult to spend free time with kids. Look around you for heaven's sake, and pay attention to the men in your world. Men are not women, they tend to only be interested in their own kids, most can barely stand when their kids' friends are around stirring up things. They do not look to put themselves in situations where kids will cause a stir, they skip out on birthday parties and the PTA. It's just not normal guy behavior to go out of their way to spend so much time around children. Your DH knows it and even some of the kids who question this guy intuitively know it. I think even you know it on some level because you are posting here to get feedback. Don't wait to have your gut instincts validated by other people, if you sense something isn't quite right then trust that... and go get the book "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin DeBecker who was on Oprah years ago. The author is a child abuser profiler who mentions different strategies used by them and how to recognize them... this guy you are talking about fits the mold to a "T". Oh, and don't make excuses because you like a person. We all do it, we make exceptions. These exceptions are how these creeps get to kids.

On a softer note, I do get it, no-one wants to make anyone else feel. It is human nature to nurture others but the truth is this need to make others feel better is easy to manipulate. You are talking about kids and an unpleasant truth is there are people they need protection from. This guy has bad news written all over him and I would run him off faster than lightening if that EVER happened around here. In fact, I warn my kids all the time about adults or older kids who try to be their friends. Kids belong with kids and adults belong with adults, no exceptions.

I hope you're not too late already, a great deal can happen in 3 years... these kids trust this person now and he is entrenched in their lives. Good luck

No, you are most certainly not alone! You raise a lot of issues that are reasonable to consider. I think sometimes people get so bent on being "PC" that they leave a lot of room for a dangerous situation for children. And isn't that what we as parents are here for, to look out for the, "what ifs"? If we don't ask the hard questions, then the door is opened for whatever may happen.