WOW, FP+ is worse than I even imagined

[JanieMc]

I just got back and while I agree the FP+ was more limiting, it did work with my touring style because I tend to be pretty organized. However, it did change the way we toured. While I was a "quiet commando" in other visits, having the "set" times kind of threw me off. I don't know why. It might have had more to do with the diversity of our party--my oldest son now 17, and 5-year-old twins who'd never been.

But it was fine. Frankly, with the new Fantasyland, which I thought was pretty awesome by the way, I didn't know my way around anymore anyway! It was almost like going for the first time! Everything looked shiny and new.

Back to FP+. One thing I DID notice was how much help there was available in altering the plans/times. There were at least three AVAILABLE people at every kiosk and few lines. We were there Labor Day weekend, so the crowds were quite manageable of course. But the CM's really knew their FP+ stuff.

I liked having new options like Wishes FP+. I liked knowing we had that "in the bag," and I liked being able to cancel Chef Mickey's because we met Mickey on FP+. We'd done CRT and BOG. I was glad to cancel that last character meal. Kids didn't know.

To me, the FP+ is part of the "new" interactivity. Paper doesn't work there anymore. I'll bet they'll tweak it--a lot--but if they don't, it just changes stuff up. It'll never go back, so I think the best thing to do is work with it. Would anyone like to go back to ticket booklets like the 70's? The magic bands are FAB. Yeah, it was nice to have a runner--me--snag the FP's and it gave much more control over the day. But it was nice this time knowing certain things were "in the bag." I had no trouble making changes on the app, either.

Just my take. And NOTHING beats going at a slow time. I know it's not always possible. But yet it's true.

 

[JanieMc]

I meant to add that we couldn't get FP+ for A&E or 7DMT, and the waits were too bad for each. We hardly had a "charmed" visit either --but was just trying to say that you just have to find a way to work with it and make the most of it, and enjoy the new stuff. MK just felt like a totally new park to me where nothing in the past applied anymore.

 

[Suvadoo]

One thing I DID notice was how much help there was available in altering the plans/times. There were at least three AVAILABLE people at every kiosk and few lines.
.

One of the main objectives of MDE was to reduce the number of CM's. From what I'm seeing and reading, Disney has had to increase the number of CM's to help guests with planning and executing their vacations. Also, most guests are first timers to WDW. So unless Disney improves MDE dramatically, they will never be able to reduce the number of CM's required to support the app.
If my suppositions are true, I do not think FP+ will survive. Too much $$$$

 

[JanieMc]

One of the main objectives of MDE was to reduce the number of CM's. From what I'm seeing and reading, Disney has had to increase the number of CM's to help guests with planning and executing their vacations. Also, most guests are first timers to WDW. So unless Disney improves MDE dramatically, they will never be able to reduce the number of CM's required to support the app.
If my suppositions are true, I do not think FP+ will survive. Too much $$$$

You know, that's a great point! I'd not thought of it that way. I mean, I'd done all the MDE stuff and done my due diligence, but I still needed help when I got there!

 

[mesaboy2]

I can't decide of these "Legends of Legacy FP" are revisionist history put out there in an effort to make FP+ look better by comparison...... or if people reporting this stuff really just made assumptions about how it would be and never fully tested it for themselves.

Likely a bit of both.

 

[Suvadoo]

You know, that's a great point! I'd not thought of it that way. I mean, I'd done all the MDE stuff and done my due diligence, but I still needed help when I got there!

See, the FP+ CM support is the deal breaker.
According to the last shareholder report, only about half of their theme parks guests are using magic bands. How can Disney possibly increase this number? I really don't know since the majority of their guests are 1st timers. I'm also wondering what percentage of these first timers purchase their tickets on the day of their visit.

 

[magicbob]

Did you ever use legacy FP? I think you are confused as to how it worked on 98% of park days.

You could arrive at DHS after noon on a slow day and still get a TSMM fast pass. You could arrive at 3pm at EPCOT on a slow day and get a fast pass for Soarin or Test Track. You could arrive almost every day at the MK at 7pm and get a fast pass for any of the Mountains.

You are making it sound like in order to get a legacy FP you had to arrive at every park at rope drop and run back to the machine to obtain a FP. That absolutely, positively, was not the case. The playing field was completely level, with any guest who entered the park, no matter where they were staying, having the same opportunity.

 

[Planogirl]

One of the main objectives of MDE was to reduce the number of CM's. From what I'm seeing and reading, Disney has had to increase the number of CM's to help guests with planning and executing their vacations. Also, most guests are first timers to WDW. So unless Disney improves MDE dramatically, they will never be able to reduce the number of CM's required to support the app.
If my suppositions are true, I do not think FP+ will survive. Too much $$$$

I bet that it will survive in some form but it would be nice if they threw out the bad elements and integrated the good elements of legacy with it.

As for the rush to TSMM, we had a bad tendency to arrive around 9:30 or 10 and then we would walk (not rush) to TSMM. There were always legacy fastpasses available for the afternoon even though the times did vary.

 

[wisblue]

I can't decide of these "Legends of Legacy FP" are revisionist history put out there in an effort to make FP+ look better by comparison...... or if people reporting this stuff really just made assumptions about how it would be and never fully tested it for themselves.

I think those revisionist stories are working both ways, and I think a lot of it is a reflection of the many variables involving different touring styles and what worked (and works) well with different crowd sizes.

Some of the people who are the staunchest advocates of the paper FP system say that they never had to visit during summer or during the busy holiday seasons. The same FP strategy that worked great with crowd levels 2 and 3 wouldn't work at all with crowd levels 9 and 10.

Similarly, people who like to park hop, take a break in the middle of the day, or otherwise not spend all day in one park, had a harder time with paper FP because it was hard to get one with a return time they could use.

For people who have virtually no choice but to visit at those busiest times, having FP lined up in advance for some of the most popular attractions at times when they know they will be in the park is a very significant advantage of FP+. In our case, that advantage outweighs everything else. Last year I loved arriving at the MK at 4 PM on December 30 knowing that we had FPs in hand for Space Mountain, Thunder Mountain, and the Jungle Cruise so we could enjoy at least those attractions. With paper FP the availability for any of the major attractions would be very limited.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Some of the people who are the staunchest advocates of the paper FP system say that they never had to visit during summer or during the busy holiday seasons.

We visited during spring break season as well as lower crowd season, and never had an issue getting FPs we wanted. And while we would attempt to make RD, we rarely did...so we generally got to the park anywhere between 30-60 mins after opening. That isn't revisionist history.

The same FP strategy that worked great with crowd levels 2 and 3 wouldn't work at all with crowd levels 9 and 10.

The same is true for fp+ as well. Crowd levels of course change strategy.

Similarly, people who like to park hop, take a break in the middle of the day, or otherwise not spend all day in one park, had a harder time with paper FP because it was hard to get one with a return time they could use.

Being able to choose a return time is an.improvement. I don't think anyonr has ever said it wasn't.

 

[surferdave]

See, the FP+ CM support is the deal breaker.
According to the last shareholder report, only about half of their theme parks guests are using magic bands. How can Disney possibly increase this number? I really don't know since the majority of their guests are 1st timers. I'm also wondering what percentage of these first timers purchase their tickets on the day of their visit.

The general belief here seems to be that it's too big to fail, as in too big an investment by Disney. But that ignores the general business concept of a sunk cost (a concept which is usually stated in folksy terms as "throwing good money after bad"). How you spent your money yesterday has nothing to do with how you should spend it today.

How can they make the required CM support go down? I can think of two things: make the software less buggy and make the users (Disney guests) more independent using it. Neither option is likely to take a quantum leap forward. They've shaken out most of the easy to fix bugs by now and most anything left that they've been able to figure out will probably require a major rewrite of one or more components. The hope that users will grow more adept is a futile one because first time users and users who only encounter the code every few years or so will always dominate the population (not to mention the growing non-English speaking segment).

You can bet that there are high level financial executives at Disney that can tell you exactly what date in the future would maximize financial damage control from a tax perspective to write off the system. It probably has to be in service for a few more years for that.

 

[Suvadoo]

You can bet that there are high level financial executives at Disney that can tell you exactly what date in the future would maximize financial damage control from a tax perspective to write off the system. It probably has to be in service for a few more years for that.

But these financial executives must also take into account the added support the MDE system requires. The longer they keep this project active the longer they are stuck paying for additional personnel. Don't you think, at some point, the expense of maintaining the system will outweigh the tax write off?

 

[Nancyg56]

I bet that it will survive in some form but it would be nice if they threw out the bad elements and integrated the good elements of legacy with it. As for the rush to TSMM, we had a bad tendency to arrive around 9:30 or 10 and then we would walk (not rush) to TSMM. There were always legacy fastpasses available for the afternoon even though the times did vary.

A friend of mine was invited to participate in a focus group during her August visit. She said that the management seemed to really want guest input in order to improve this system. I think that the high level plan had a vision of how this technology would improve a multitude of issues, including entrance lines and shopping times, spread out guests throughout the parks, reduce CM interaction, etc. The problem is that implementing technology on such a wide scale, and then ensuring that everyone knows how to use it, or is inclined to use it, is another story.

Unless one of these execs was used to touring like a newbie as well as touring like a WDW commando, had experience planning long range as well as last minute, stayed onsite as well as off, they had no way of understanding the real impact of this strategy.

 

[surferdave]

But these financial executives must also take into account the added support the MDE system requires. The longer they keep this project active the longer they are stuck paying for additional personnel. Don't you think, at some point, the expense of maintaining the system will outweigh the tax write off?

It's apparently a pretty big step change when you've used it long enough to write off. My company had a multi-million dollar system that was developed in house that was supposed to be a consolidated data management system combining all of our various processes (sound familiar?) that was a total disaster. They held out and continued using it for about a year after everyone, high level management included, quit pretending it was ever going to work just to get the capital write off.

I think the only way Disney would pull the plug on it early would be if it actually started costing them business. But as anybody who doesn't like the system is quickly reminded by the Disney Defenders, they are easily replaced if they quit showing up at WDW.

 

[dkrauss]

Welcome to the party pal!

This is hilarious..........I've got this image of Bruce Willis perched on top of Cinderella's Castle yelling that statement

Doug

 

[mom2rtk]

This is hilarious..........I've got this image of Bruce Willis perched on top of Cinderella's Castle yelling that statement

Doug

Followed by "yippee ki yay"!

 

[dkrauss]

Followed by "yippee ki yay"!

EXACTLY!............without the ending

Doug

 

[mom2rtk]

EXACTLY!............without the ending

Doug

Yeah, it's not quite the same without the ending. But this IS Disney.

 

[Suvadoo]

It's apparently a pretty big step change when you've used it long enough to write off. My company had a multi-million dollar system that was developed in house that was supposed to be a consolidated data management system combining all of our various processes (sound familiar?) that was a total disaster. They held out and continued using it for about a year after everyone, high level management included, quit pretending it was ever going to work just to get the capital write off.

I think the only way Disney would pull the plug on it early would be if it actually started costing them business. But as anybody who doesn't like the system is quickly reminded by the Disney Defenders, they are easily replaced if they quit showing up at WDW.

I'm glad I'm finally able to speak with someone on the boards who thinks that Disney may dump this project because of the astronomical expenses associated with MDE. In the past when I've made this suggestion, most people have used the argument you mention, " It's here to stay because Disney has invested too much money, to dump it."

Besides FP+, I think there is another failure associated with MDE. Namely the interactive queues that were supposed to entertain waiting guests. From what I've seen and read most of the people in the line are still standing around doing nothing while a few people play a game or engage in some other activity. While the few people are enjoying the game, they hold up the line for the people who are doing nothing. This was another next gen installation that wasn't so hot, but was very expensive.

With the line interactivity, the only time this would be great is when the crowds are low. But when the crowds are low, guests don't care about playing a game when they can ride an attraction. I have seen posts about great the queue theming on a particular ride, but the theming was there before next gen. Line interactivity, however, does not require ongoing additional CM support. If these elements stop working, I think they will just be shut down.

According to Jim Hill on the Disney Dish Podcast, there are interactive queue elements for additional rides at MK. Originally these installations were budgeted under MDE, but that's now changed. If the manager of MK wants an interactive element, it now comes out of the MK budget not the MDE budget. So, I don't think we'll see more queue upgrades.

 

[disneygolfer1985]

Personally, one of my biggest complaints is you have to plan your days 2 months in advance of your vacation. I personally enjoyed the older system because you could decide where you wanted to in the morning when you were there. However, one upside is you don't have to be at the park when it first opens, which can make it seem more relaxing, but the planning before you go is more stressful. I'm indifferent because it seems that you can find positive or negatives either way, I just prefer to enjoy my vacations by not planning and just going with the flow. Those are my two-cents.