Would you put yourself in a financial bind to help a family member?

[Marionnette]

What if that family member was an ex spouse? And the kids live with that ex half of the time?

Background info. - Brother and ex sister in law have been divorced about a year. They share joint physical custody of the two kids (14 & 12) but brother pays child support to his ex in an amount that is more generous than the state would mandate. That doesn't make him any kind of saint. They're his kids and he should support them to the best of his ability. I'm only saying this to point out that he is not a deadbeat father in any sense of the word.

Two weeks ago, he gave his ex the child support for December because she is having a rough time financially. Her boyfriend dumped her and he was paying all of her bills. So she had to go out and get two jobs. With little education and the way the economy is, neither job is paying well. Budgeting has never been her strength. It was a constant issue during their married life.

Yesterday, he and I are on the phone talking about his recent trip to Disney with his kids and he gets a text from his ex. She wants January's child support early. (yeah, I had to check my calendar...it's still November!) Apparently she got her electric bill (due Dec. 5) and it's almost $700! Something tells me that someone is either lying about the electric bill and wants the money for something else or she hasn't paid it in months and now faces shut off. She has a history of bad financial decisions and lying about where the money goes. It could be either.

Brother is torn. He would give her the money but after taking a vacation and showing the kids a great time, there isn't any room left in his own budget to do this. He doesn't want the kids to be in a house with no electricity if she really is facing a shut off. He could have them stay with him until the ex gets her act together, but he travels for work and can't guarantee that he won't be called out of town at some point. When he is in town, the kids are with him. But when he is called out of town (about 3-4 days during the week), the kids have to be at their mother's house.

He knows that if he gives her January's child support now (which he doesn't think he can do without putting his own bills in arrears), she will be back in a couple weeks with a sob story about not having money for Christmas gifts for the kids. And she'll want February's child support. Or just money...period. She still tries to play brother like a fiddle.

What kind of advice would you give him? He looks up to me as his big sister. He thinks that I have a handle on my own finances so I must know how to handle this. And to be honest, it would be easy to tell him to just let her twist in the wind if it were not for the kids. If he didn't live 300 miles away, I would volunteer to be with the kids while he is out of town.

 

[RitaE]

My advice would be that if he decides to pay the Electric Bill, to pay the money directly to the Electric Company and not write her a check. Also get a copy of the bill.

Also keep a folder of documentation (copies of checks, bills etc) of everything he pays and will pay over and above the required support amount and notes of what she asked him to pay and her reasons of why she needed him to pay it. He might want that proof someday.

 

[angierae]

My advice would be that if he decides to pay the Electric Bill, to pay the money directly to the Electric Company and not write her a check. Also get a copy of the bill.

Also keep a folder of documentation (copies of checks, bills etc) of everything he pays and will pay over and above the required support amount and notes of what she asked him to pay and her reasons of why she needed him to pay it. He might want that proof someday.

I agree with everything in this post.

 

[tlbwriter]

I think your suspicion that the bill hasn't been paid for several months is probably correct. I'd suggest he find out how much is due *now* and how much might be paid later. Also, many communities will not shut off power during colder months, so have him find out if that's a possibility. If he does decide to help, he should pay the bill directly, not give the money to her. And when she needs money for gifts for the kids, he can say "Don't worry, I've got gifts for them, so they won't be hurting."

 

[connie1042]

I would pay the bill or what he could afford directly to the electric company. I would make copies of the checks and payment stubs. I WOULD NOT give her any money, until he owes it to her.

 

[v.t.]

My advice would be that if he decides to pay the Electric Bill, to pay the money directly to the Electric Company and not write her a check. Also get a copy of the bill.

Also keep a folder of documentation (copies of checks, bills etc) of everything he pays and will pay over and above the required support amount and notes of what she asked him to pay and her reasons of why she needed him to pay it. He might want that proof someday.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm sure this will sound heartless but he needs to let her figure it out on her own. There are many resources available for low-income families to prevent shut off, from the utility company as well as private charities and the welfare department. If your brother allows himself to be his ex's "white knight" this time she will keep coming to him any time she has a self-inflicted crisis, and he shouldn't even be considering digging himself into a financial hole to smooth over his ex's bad choices.

As far as Christmas goes, I agree with a previous poster. He needs to tell his ex that the kids are old enough to understand financial difficulties, well past the stage where they think Christmas presents simply appear under the tree by magic, and they won't suffer if Christmas at their mom's is lean.

 

[englishteacha]

I would not put myself into a financial bind to help a family member. If I had extra funds, then I would help in a way I felt comfortable, but I would not jeopardize my family's financial security.

 

[tinkerbelletreasure]

IA that he should let her figure it out. My dh's ex had her utilities shut off once and we came and took his daughter. Everything was back on in less than 2 weeks, and she didn't make that mistake again. I seriously doubt the ex will be staying in a house without electricity either. If it gets shut off she'll either find a way to get the money, or find a temporary living situation until she can.

 

[bettymae1121]

I know around here, the utilities won't shut off power when there are young children in the house and/or during the winter months. I agree with the PP, if he feels like helping, he needs to pay the power company directly and only the amount needed to keep shut off from happening. And I also agree, he needs to document everything in case he wants/needs to take her to court in the future.

 

[happygirl]

I don't think electric company shuts of the electric during the winter months. I know the ones here DON"T. Instead of giving his ex mom for the bill he needs to help her find resources to be able to help herself. There are a ton of resources that will help her.

 

[horseshowmom]

My advice would be that if he decides to pay the Electric Bill, to pay the money directly to the Electric Company and not write her a check. Also get a copy of the bill.

Also keep a folder of documentation (copies of checks, bills etc) of everything he pays and will pay over and above the required support amount and notes of what she asked him to pay and her reasons of why she needed him to pay it. He might want that proof someday.

IF he decides to help her, this is what I would do too. Under no circumstances would the money go to her. Of course, when he does it once, she'll likely have another electricity emergency before too long. I also agree with the others that I wouldn't be providing money for her to purchase Christmas gifts.

 

[ceecee]

I agree with everything in this post.

I think if it's $700 it's more than the electric bill for even several months. He should call the electric co and find out for sure. He could keep the kids at his house while her electric is off. She needs to sink or swim. If someone always bails her out she will never learn.

 

[MrsJackSparrow4Life]

Nope, not in that situation.

I highly doubt the electricity will be shut off in December and even if it was, I would choose to spend my money paying someone to watch my kids while I'm out of town rather than pay my ex who has no idea how to handle her money.

 

[Marionnette]

I did some checking and in PA, they can turn your power off in the winter months. There are extenuating circumstances for families with a seriously ill person living with them, but otherwise it is possible.

A question for those who are familiar with child support issues: If he were to pay the electric company directly, could he deduct that amount from January's child support check? I was under the impression that whoever pays child support cannot dictate how that money is spent. So he couldn't, for instance, buy her a bunch of gift cards to clothing stores, grocery stores and the electric company (yes, they have gift certificates - who knew?) and call that "child support" even though those funds could and should be used for the kids.

The point is that brother cannot afford to pay the electric bill AND pay January's child support as well. It just won't work into his budget.

 

[RitaE]

No -he can't pay the electric company and then pay less in child support. Even if his ex-wife gives him an agreement now that he can pay less later if he makes that utility payment now, she can change her mind at a later date and sue him for back child support - and have a decent chance of winning.

He can't pay child support (even if he pays it early) and demand that it be used to pay that electric bill. He writes the check to her, she decides how to spend it. He has to pay the support ordered to the Mother. By the due date.

He has to decide whether or not he is willing to pay extra. It is a tough decision because basically when he says no, he is then sending his kids off to live in an unheated apartment. That's a decision he's going to have to come to himself, he'll eventually reach the point where he says no more - but at one year out he may not be there yet.

Basically all he can do is pay the child support as ordered, and then if the kids are not being taken care of (like being kept in an unheated apartment or fed and clothed properly) he can go back to court and ask that custody be re-considered because the children's mother is not maintaining a safe living environment. Again, the fact that he isn't able to care for the kids full-time when he's out of town is going to complicate that. He has some tough decisions to make.

Would he be willing to keep the kids at his house and then if he gets called out of town allow the Mother to come stay with them at his house?

 

[NLD]

Is there a court-mandated child support agreement in place, or have they just worked this all out themselves?

 

[arminnie]

A question for those who are familiar with child support issues: If he were to pay the electric company directly, could he deduct that amount from January's child support check?

A guy I know helped out his ex-wife by paying all of her expenses. He was a cpa so it was easier for him to just handle the finances. He paid way over what child support was. A couple of years later she took him to court for non-payment of child support - a really rotten thing to do. He's a very honorable man and was just shocked that she would do that. And he had to pay up. I think it cost her more in the end though as after that he never ever did one more thing to help her.

 

[Darcy03231]

He needs to tell her sorry, he's tapped out. He'll pay January when it is due and then let her figure it out. If he continues to bail her out, she'll continue to ask for extra money and he become an enabler. My guess is she'll figure it out somehow.

 

[tlbwriter]

A question for those who are familiar with child support issues: If he were to pay the electric company directly, could he deduct that amount from January's child support check? I was under the impression that whoever pays child support cannot dictate how that money is spent. So he couldn't, for instance, buy her a bunch of gift cards to clothing stores, grocery stores and the electric company (yes, they have gift certificates - who knew?) and call that "child support" even though those funds could and should be used for the kids.

Good point - he probably shouldn't do that. I think he should decline to give her the money early, since she'll probably still be in a bind and it doesn't make sense for both of them to be broke right now. Just tell her he doesn't have it (and he doesn't, unless he's going to let his own bills slide) and that she should send the kids to him if her power is turned off.

Would it be possible for her to stay at his place with the kids if he has to leave town, or is that a bad idea? Some divorced couples have that kind of relationship and some don't.