Would you put yourself in a financial bind to help a family member?

[Marionnette]

Is there a court-mandated child support agreement in place, or have they just worked this all out themselves?

The child support agreement was hammered out by his lawyer and the judge granting the divorce signed off on it.

Brother is willing to pay whatever is necessary for his kids. The problem is that my former sister in law has, shall we say, dependency issues. He doesn't want money that is meant for the kids to go toward supporting her habit. I'm concerned that if he pays the light bill, and the child support and whatever else that is needed to keep the kids safe and warm, she will spend it on her friends, Jack Daniels and Jose Cuervo. And then come back to him for more money because she actually DOES need it for food and heat.

 

[sparklynails23]

Even though you're the big sister, stay out of it and keep your advice to yourself. Whatever decision your brother makes, he will have to live with. Let him make the decision. Now, if you want to send money, no strings attached and never mentioned again to the kids, have at it. Tis the season.

 

[Marionnette]

Would he be willing to keep the kids at his house and then if he gets called out of town allow the Mother to come stay with them at his house?

Would it be possible for her to stay at his place with the kids if he has to leave town, or is that a bad idea? Some divorced couples have that kind of relationship and some don't.

There are huge trust issues that would make that a big NO. The kids don't even have a key to his house because he is concerned that she would make a copy and help herself to whatever is in the place while he is out of town.

 

[HookdonWDW]

If things are that bad, why on earth doesn't he file for physical custody (at least until she gets her stuff together)???? Personally, I would let the heat get shut off, and then file for temporary custody, until she shows that she's ready to take care of her obligations towards the kids, and spend less time hanging out with Jose, Jim, Jack and the gang.

Also, by paying over the amount and paying her early, he's exacerbating the problem. I hope that he noted that the last early payment was child support, or she could take him to court and claim that it was a "gift" to help get the kids ready for the trip to Disney, the holidays, etc... the fact that he pays extra might help her as it shows that he does still give her extra money.

My advice would be not to pay her early, offer to take in the kids if she loses electricity, stop paying overages on the support bills, and instead, spend the "extra" on certain bills, as he can control how that money is spent, but can't control the mandated support.

 

[kaleighmariesmom]

A guy I know helped out his ex-wife by paying all of her expenses. He was a cpa so it was easier for him to just handle the finances. He paid way over what child support was. A couple of years later she took him to court for non-payment of child support - a really rotten thing to do. He's a very honorable man and was just shocked that she would do that. And he had to pay up. I think it cost her more in the end though as after that he never ever did one more thing to help her.

I have heard of this happening to a few people. He should not pay her ahead of time. He should stay with within the month. He will end up paying 2 times cuae something will always "come up". She sounds like a real winner!

 

[Suz D]

Doesn't child support have to be paid through the court? If he pays early wouldn't the court record that? Regardless, here is my advice which builds on the advice of a PP.

Instead of paying over the child support amount, I would take her back to court for custody (it sounds like they aren't in the best environment so it isn't out of malice, it's a safety issue). Then he can use the child support $$ to pay someone to watch the kids while he is out of town. The wife will likely have to pay something in child support if this happens as well so that will also contribute to the cost of someone to care for the kids.

If the above is not possible, I would stop paying above the amount and set it aside for child care. Then if the heat does get cut off, the children can stay with him and the amount that he would have paid over the court ordered CS amount plus anything he would have contributed to this outstanding electric bill could help pay for child care.

I'm sorry that he is having to go through this and even sorrier that the kids are having to go through it too.

 

[Darcy03231]

I did paralegal divorce work for over 25 years.

He should not pay extra. He should pay his child support on time each month or week. He shouldn't pay early. We've had clients pay early and then have to pay again because the judge felt there should be a steady stream of money either monthly or weekly and not paid in advance.

If he decides to pay something extra he shouldn't give it to the ex. He should pay it directly to the utility company.

I agree with the PP who said if she's too good a friend with Jose, Jack and Jim your brother should let the chips fall where they may and then file for full custody. If he's not paying child support he should then have enough extra money to hire someone for child care on the days he needs it. DH did this before we were married. He went through an agency and he had a college aged girl that would come and stay at his house as necessary.

 

[DISdreamin']

The problem is that my former sister in law has, shall we say, dependency issues. He doesn't want money that is meant for the kids to go toward supporting her habit. I'm concerned that if he pays the light bill, and the child support and whatever else that is needed to keep the kids safe and warm, she will spend it on her friends, Jack Daniels and Jose Cuervo. And then come back to him for more money because she actually DOES need it for food and heat.

Okay, I'm sorry, and I know this is going to sound harsh, but I'm gonna go there anyway.

Why is he worrying about the electric bill when his kids are with someone with dependency issues?! The electric bill would be the least of my worries at that point.

As far as ponying up money you don't have, a big solid NO to that. If he puts himself in a financial hole to dig her out of one, where will they be the next time she has trouble (and we both know there will be a next time)?

 

[rockundergirl]

Ugh! this hits so close to home. My ex husband is homeless at least a month out of every year because he is fighting with his girlfriend and gets kicked out of her apartment... He can never afford to feed my son when he takes him for visitation so i have to pack food. When he takes him for the weekend he often calls me saying " can you come get him I have no gas in my car".


For all of you that think the OP brother should file for custody .... ha ha ha... right... its not like it is in the movies... My ex husband would have to pretty much rap or kill someone , and be convicted before I could keep him away from my son. The court does not even what to hear about ..." but he has no money ... but he was homeless last month .. but but... they don't care. " If he went to court and told them the electric and heat are getting shut off... the court would just appoint her a rep that would help her get free stuff from the gov't and cheaper housing..... wouldn't change anything...


My advice to you for your brother would be to offer his home to his child any night of the week where the childs mothers home is not in working order, and to go to the court and request that he submit payment to the court for childsupport through the court, not directly to her. Sorry your family is dealing with this.

 

[ceecee]

Okay, Why is he worrying about the electric bill when his kids are with someone with dependency issues?! The electric bill would be the least of my worries at that point.

QUOTE]

I agree! It's not a safe enviroment if she's an alcholic. He needs to get her back to court, if for no other reason to get his ex into AA.

 

[Marionnette]

Okay, Why is he worrying about the electric bill when his kids are with someone with dependency issues?! The electric bill would be the least of my worries at that point.

I agree! It's not a safe enviroment if she's an alcholic. He needs to get her back to court, if for no other reason to get his ex into AA.

It's not as if my brother isn't doing something about custody and his ex's drinking problem. But it's not like the courts will just take the kids away from her based on allegations. There has to be proof and plenty of it! All of this will take time.

I only mentioned the drinking because that is the reason that my brother and everyone else in the family is reluctant to just pay the bill or give her money towards it. It's the reason that the boyfriend left her. We know that she has to hit rock bottom before she will get help. We don't want to cushion her fall. In the mean time, there are the two kids to worry about. The electric bill in just part of a long list of problems and a minor one in comparison to the others.

 

[aggielawyer]

My advice would be that if he decides to pay the Electric Bill, to pay the money directly to the Electric Company and not write her a check. Also get a copy of the bill.

Also keep a folder of documentation (copies of checks, bills etc) of everything he pays and will pay over and above the required support amount and notes of what she asked him to pay and her reasons of why she needed him to pay it. He might want that proof someday.

If he is paying through a state agency, they will not consider this a payment. It's possible that he wouldn't get credit for it even with proof because it is outside the terms of the court order (if it is).

I would tell him to stand firm. Offer for the kids to come stay with him if he's worried about them being in danger, but other than that don't give her any extra money.

 

[mom2rose&john]

It's not as if my brother isn't doing something about custody and his ex's drinking problem. But it's not like the courts will just take the kids away from her based on allegations. There has to be proof and plenty of it! All of this will take time.

I only mentioned the drinking because that is the reason that my brother and everyone else in the family is reluctant to just pay the bill or give her money towards it. It's the reason that the boyfriend left her. We know that she has to hit rock bottom before she will get help. We don't want to cushion her fall. In the mean time, there are the two kids to worry about. The electric bill in just part of a long list of problems and a minor one in comparison to the others.

With what you just said I do not think that He should pay for the electric bill. It may sound harsh but paying above and beyond child support is enabling her dependency. If she is enables she will never hit rock bottom. It is too bad there are innocent children involved and these types of things are so complex that there probably is no "right" answer. Your brother should do what is best for him and his children. If the electricity is cut off (if that is truly why she needs money) it may mean he will gain custody of the children since she can not provide a safe and healthy environment.

My thoughts and prayers are for the safety of the children first and foremost.

 

[Darcy03231]

With what you just said I do not think that He should pay for the electric bill. It may sound harsh but paying above and beyond child support is enabling her dependency. If she is enables she will never hit rock bottom. It is too bad there are innocent children involved and these types of things are so complex that there probably is no "right" answer. Your brother should do what is best for him and his children. If the electricity is cut off (if that is truly why she needs money) it may mean he will gain custody of the children since she can not provide a safe and healthy environment.

My thoughts and prayers are for the safety of the children first and foremost.

This. He needs to stop giving her extra money and/or giving it to her early. Until she hits rock bottem she's never going to change her ways.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

My advice is he may wish to revisit the custody issue. He is not responsible for alimony and her getting advances on support is essentially alimony.

He needs to stop. If the welfare of the children are at risk, then he consults his attorney for a temporary adjustment.

It stinks--but they had their set up determined by a court of law and her living beyond her means (using a boyfriend's money and now her ex-husband's) isn't his problem.

Sometimes we think we are helping people, but we aren't. And it is likely the money won't go to the welfare of the children but to support her own lifestyle. She is being selfish and he is enabling that and essentially buying her booze.

 

[arthur06]

I haven't read all the replies to this point, just saw the $700 electric bill issue. I am not sure the state that your brother and/or his ex live in. However, I know that it many cold weather states the electric companies can NOT turn off power from certain dates of the year.

If you are in one of those states, check your local laws. It might just be a ploy to get more of his money.

 

[sookie]

What if that family member was an ex spouse? And the kids live with that ex half of the time?

Background info. - Brother and ex sister in law have been divorced about a year. They share joint physical custody of the two kids (14 & 12) but brother pays child support to his ex in an amount that is more generous than the state would mandate. That doesn't make him any kind of saint. They're his kids and he should support them to the best of his ability. I'm only saying this to point out that he is not a deadbeat father in any sense of the word.

Two weeks ago, he gave his ex the child support for December because she is having a rough time financially. Her boyfriend dumped her and he was paying all of her bills. So she had to go out and get two jobs. With little education and the way the economy is, neither job is paying well. Budgeting has never been her strength. It was a constant issue during their married life.

Yesterday, he and I are on the phone talking about his recent trip to Disney with his kids and he gets a text from his ex. She wants January's child support early. (yeah, I had to check my calendar...it's still November!) Apparently she got her electric bill (due Dec. 5) and it's almost $700! Something tells me that someone is either lying about the electric bill and wants the money for something else or she hasn't paid it in months and now faces shut off. She has a history of bad financial decisions and lying about where the money goes. It could be either.

Brother is torn. He would give her the money but after taking a vacation and showing the kids a great time, there isn't any room left in his own budget to do this. He doesn't want the kids to be in a house with no electricity if she really is facing a shut off. He could have them stay with him until the ex gets her act together, but he travels for work and can't guarantee that he won't be called out of town at some point. When he is in town, the kids are with him. But when he is called out of town (about 3-4 days during the week), the kids have to be at their mother's house.

He knows that if he gives her January's child support now (which he doesn't think he can do without putting his own bills in arrears), she will be back in a couple weeks with a sob story about not having money for Christmas gifts for the kids. And she'll want February's child support. Or just money...period. She still tries to play brother like a fiddle.

What kind of advice would you give him? He looks up to me as his big sister. He thinks that I have a handle on my own finances so I must know how to handle this. And to be honest, it would be easy to tell him to just let her twist in the wind if it were not for the kids. If he didn't live 300 miles away, I would volunteer to be with the kids while he is out of town.

If they are truly 50/50 he shouldn't be paying child support at all.
Further, if she no longer has electricity, he should let her know that the children are welcome to stay at his home until she figures something out.

 

[Marionnette]

If they are truly 50/50 he shouldn't be paying child support at all.
Further, if she no longer has electricity, he should let her know that the children are welcome to stay at his home until she figures something out.

I pretty sure that this is not true in PA. Child support can still be ordered if there is a huge difference in the incomes of the parents when the marriage is dissolved.

I spoke with my brother last night. He won't be giving the ex January's child support right now. For one reason, he just doesn't have it. And the other reason is that he knows that she will only spend it all and then be back in January (or even earlier) asking for February's child support.

So now he is trying to put a plan in place in the event that the kids need to stay at his house for an extended period of time. I suggested that maybe he could find someone from his church who is looking for some extra money for the holidays. Maybe a retired person or a college student. His church community has been very supportive and they are very close knit. He really only needs someone to be with them after school and through the night.

I want to thank everyone for their input. It really helped me so that I could listen to my brother and offer workable solutions.

 

[RadioFanatic]

Another thing to throw out there - I know it's tough in this economy, but I hope your brother is seriously looking for another job that doesn't require travel so he can be there for his kids since his ex obviously isn't taking care of them.

 

[eliza61]

My advice would be that if he decides to pay the Electric Bill, to pay the money directly to the Electric Company and not write her a check. Also get a copy of the bill.

Also keep a folder of documentation (copies of checks, bills etc) of everything he pays and will pay over and above the required support amount and notes of what she asked him to pay and her reasons of why she needed him to pay it. He might want that proof someday.

I would pay the bill or what he could afford directly to the electric company. I would make copies of the checks and payment stubs. I WOULD NOT give her any money, until he owes it to her.

another one for this solution.