Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[mustinjourney]

Just to be clear, I doubt they were worried about personal liability. I’ve served on boards before and there is insurance to cover most board actions.

 

[Wakey]

Just to be clear, I doubt they were worried about personal liability. I’ve served on boards before and there is insurance to cover most board actions.

Insurance cover in such situations normally excluded deliberate acts, so if that is grounds for any hypothetical lawsuits against a board member, then they wouldn’t have insurance cover. Talking generally here, not about the index case.

 

[DougEMG]

It would be interesting to find out what exactly caused Disney to reverse course here.

 

[pinklotusflower]

This is great news, thank you Zavandor and everyone else who has put time in to write & ring about this. It's reassuring they have listened to what has been said and are going to re-look at it and take members feedback on board.

 

[zavandor]

VICTORY!
I'm very happy, I couldn't wake up to better news.
This is a collective victory for everyone who participated in this thread. Thank you to everyone who posted, both people who agreed and people who disagreed, who pushed me to delve deeper into the matter and find more issues to discuss with DVC. And a special thank you to people who personally supported me with kind and warm messages.

We've thrown at them many darts from different directions and it's evident something stuck. Impossible to say now what exactly convinced them to back off, but we'll get a better idea during this year or at the latest with the 2021 point charts.
I think they'll change the POS soon, at least for the WDW resorts. They are a bit of a mess, they have different wording, different rules and the multi site POS is in contradiction with all of them. They'll be changed to support what DVCMC want to do, we'll see if something will be left out.
I do not think I'll be contacted back again this week, but I still would like to know why they think they can reallocate cross units, the 2019 point charts still have this problem and I'd like to be convinced I'm wrong. I will ask for a face to face appointment for September when I'll be in Orlando.

 

[Madame]

VICTORY!
I'm very happy, I couldn't wake up to better news.
This is a collective victory for everyone who participated in this thread. Thank you to everyone who posted, both people who agreed and people who disagreed, who pushed me to delve deeper into the matter and find more issues to discuss with DVC. And a special thank you to people who personally supported me with kind and warm messages.

We've thrown at them many darts from different directions and it's evident something stuck. Impossible to say now what exactly convinced them to back off, but we'll get a better idea during this year or at the latest with the 2021 point charts.
I think they'll change the POS soon, at least for the WDW resorts. They are a bit of a mess, they have different wording, different rules and the multi site POS is in contradiction with all of them. They'll be changed to support what DVCMC want to do, we'll see if something will be left out.
I do not think I'll be contacted back again this week, but I still would like to know why they think they can reallocate cross units, the 2019 point charts still have this problem and I'd like to be convinced I'm wrong. I will ask for a face to face appointment for September when I'll be in Orlando.

Thank-you @zavandor !

 

[Johnny D]

Where is Dean since the great news broke? Like to get his view on DVC’s about-face. Makes me wonder if he is a DVC employee, consultant, or unpaid plant on this board. Seems to ALWAYS take The DVC side of issues. Just wondering.

 

[asw1520]

It would be interesting to find out what exactly caused Disney to reverse course here.

Never assume Officers in a company knows all the nuances of the rule(s). People come and go, how many of the newbie read or have the time to read complete rules. They may only get a summary in a few transitions slides At best.

 

[asw1520]

How about pressing for adding an agenda to the next annual meeting for
DVCMC transparency in the point re-allocation process and rule?

As members we have the right to do so but usually only happens when significant number of members requested.

 

[Bing Showei]

Where is Dean since the great news broke? Like to get his view on DVC’s about-face. Makes me wonder if he is a DVC emplyee, consultant, or unpaid plant on this board. Seems to ALWAYS take The DVC side of issues. Just wondering.

Dean has spent years on the BBSs (that predated the internet as we know it today) talking about timeshares. He’s also spent a huge amount of time on these boards providing advice to people looking to get into the timeshare business. More times than not, I’ve seen him try to dissuade people from buying into the system.

While I certainly don’t see eye to eye with him on this reallocation and felt he was wrong about using our voice in a public forum in this way, at no point have I ever questioned his integrity or motivation. To do so would be to ignore the invaluable contributions he has made to this community over the decades of his involvement.

 

[Johnny D]

Dean has spent years on the BBSs (that predated the internet as we know it today) talking about timeshares. He’s also spent a huge amount of time on these boards providing advice to people looking to get into the timeshare business. More times than not, I’ve seen him try to dissuade people from buying into the system.

While I certainly don’t see eye to eye with him on this reallocation and felt he was wrong about using our voice in a public forum in this way, at no point have I ever questioned his integrity or motivation. To do so would be to ignore the invaluable contributions he has made to this community over the decades of his involvement.

Not questioning anyone’s integrity, but maybe his motivation. Don’t know the person, and I haven’t been on this board in years. It’s just seemed his veracity for taking Disney side in all this, and feeling the need to Vehemently oppose almost every valid point members made and take DVC’s side, just made me wonder the motive. Re reading my post, i can see how my statement came across negative or somewhat confrontational . That was not the intent. However I would not be surprised if Disney watches this board and has personnel post their position from time to time without revealing who they truly are. Maybe just the cynical side of me.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Where is Dean since the great news broke? Like to get his view on DVC’s about-face. Makes me wonder if he is a DVC employee, consultant, or unpaid plant on this board. Seems to ALWAYS take The DVC side of issues. Just wondering.

He has commented! He’s one of the first to do so!
https://www.disboards.com/threads/w...20-reallocation.3726101/page-63#post-60186784

 

[Johnny D]

He has commented! He’s one of the first to do so!
https://www.disboards.com/threads/w...20-reallocation.3726101/page-63#post-60186784

Thanks missed that.

 

[Madame]

Where is Dean since the great news broke? Like to get his view on DVC’s about-face. Makes me wonder if he is a DVC employee, consultant, or unpaid plant on this board. Seems to ALWAYS take The DVC side of issues. Just wondering.

No. He’s said himself that years ago DIS members/pixie dusters saw him as anti-Disney, now anti-pixie dusters see him as pro-Disney even though his stance hasn’t changed. I think he sees things one way and rarely changes his mind without overwhelming evidence.

 

[ziravan]

Not questioning anyone’s integrity, but maybe his motivation. Don’t know the person, and I haven’t been on this board in years. It’s just seemed his veracity for taking Disney side in all this, and feeling the need to Vehemently oppose almost every valid point members made and take DVC’s side, just made me wonder the motive. Re reading my post, i can see how my statement came across negative or somewhat confrontational . That was not the intent. However I would not be surprised if Disney watches this board and has personnel post their position from time to time without revealing who they truly are. Maybe just the cynical side of me.

When the 2016 changes hit, I argued for three pages with a clear Disney plant with a throwaway ID.

I suggested that buying a 25 point direct contract would defeat the new rules. He said I was stupid, that surely DVD would think of that and he had personal inside knowledge that that strategy wouldn’t work.

It worked for almost two years.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/resale-policy-change.3498681/

 

[skier_pete]

Wowsers! I was just going to come on here this morning to ask folks what number they were using to contact DVC, because I had decided I wanted my voice to be heard.


Much credit to those that also reached out and actually contacted Disney - and pushed this issue - you were ABSOLUTELY critical to this win. I'm not going to list all the names but you know who you are.

That said, I agree with @Bing Showei 's comment above. There is no doubt in my mind that that it wasn't just a few dozen (or even a few hundred) people calling and complaining. It most certainly triggered management to look closer at the changes from a legal perspective, and there a good chance that that review brought forth that they could possibly lose the case that raising the lockout premium across all resorts - and as a result have to pay significant damages across all DVC members. In other words, the only way Disney does this is if they realize there's at least a reasonable chance that they did something wrong.

Now it is completely possible that the folks in charge of the point charts did this thought that there was no legal ramification to it, and simply never really vetted the changes with the arm that has to make sure they are doing it "for the benefit of DVC members". However, I really have a hard time believing - especially now - that SOMEONE in the organization didn't realize that this could lead to increase profits.

One other point I'd like to make that I haven't really seen made on this thread yet - put it relates to those that say they might be changing the Riviera point charts as well:
- Having a lock-out premium set when a resort first goes an sale CANNOT violate the "benefit of the DVC members". By putting it the off premium in the initial sales - you are buying full knowing that it exists. They could build a larger lock-off premium into Riviera and no-one can say a thing.
- Increasing the lock-out premium with no offset after a resort is sold COULD be considered a violation of the "benefit of the DVC members". As has been reported repeatedly here - people were told by sales people that points could be reallocated but they could never be raised - when in fact this loophole allowed them to raise points across the board.

It's at least a win for the year - but it may still be a case of "let's go back to the drawing board". In the end - they may revisit a similar move. They MAY still be able to - for instance - raise the studio rates while lowering the 1-BD rates. However, I think there's a good chance that they do not try the same move again next year. And hopefully they will keep a closer eye on whether it actual benefits the membership or not!

Oh - and I do not at all believe @Dean is some sort of plant from DVC. I think he believed that Disney would not do something that would not benefit the membership - not because they were good people - but because they had to by law. I think the difference here was many of us did believe they could do something illegal - either because they thought they could get away with it, or because they didn't fully vet it.

 

[drusba]

Where is Dean since the great news broke? Like to get his view on DVC’s about-face. Makes me wonder if he is a DVC employee, consultant, or unpaid plant on this board. Seems to ALWAYS take The DVC side of issues. Just wondering.

Dean. as a number of others, presented the reality view that it was unlikely DVC would change the point charts. Frankly, despite my optimistic views, I feared it was also unlikely. Do not know about Dean, but I am definitely shocked by the outcome.

I look at it now as no time to gloat, but instead thank DVC for listening and changing its mind.

 

[skier_pete]

I look at it now as no time to gloat, but instead thank DVC for listening and changing its mind.

Totally agree. Thank you to Disney for reviewing it and realizing/admitting it was the wrong thing to do.

 

[bobbiwoz]

...

I look at it now as no time to gloat, but instead thank DVC for listening and changing its mind.

Good idea!

 

[DaveNan]

I'll be at WDW in 7 days. First trip ever with just my DW.
I had planned on having a conversation about this with every guide I encountered in the parks or in the resorts.
"So if I just use studios, DVD can't raise any nights requirement without a corresponding decrease in another night points?"
"Is that how you have been selling this for years?"
I was expecting my over/under to be 20 conversations, what would stop be would either be security or my DW. I was expecting my DW to stop me first.
Additionally, I was expecting to dedicate a significant amount of my time at MM on the 5th speaking with DVD leadership.

I still plan on having some conversations with both guides and leadership about the specific wording in the letter.
I will be asking leadership to get as specific as they can about flexibility they believe they have with the charts and ask them to publish a formal document. Additionally, they need to insure the guides understand these interpretations and clearly communicate it to all potential buyers. Possibly even a formal acknowledgement in the paperwork.

"DVDMC can increase the total number of points it takes to reserve a specific villa for the year. With regard to a the total combination of all the deeded villas (example 2BR) the overall points will remain constant for the year. However, the total points for the year can increase for non-deeded portions (example studio and 1BR) of a deeded unit without a corresponding decrease in points elsewhere."

If that had been in the paperwork for the last 26 years, and that is what the guides clearly communicated to all potential buyers, we may not have been happy, but most of us would have accepted this as a reality and within what was communicated to us.