Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[crvetter]

Hey guys, I am the 'Ryan' in the email from DVC Yvonne. I can assure you that it is real.

Haha yeah that is exactly who I worked with in all my conversations. Hopefully they don’t drop another shoe though. Like limit banking or borrowing.

 

[larry47591]

Wonder if it will be more subtle on when they try this on 2021 charts.

 

[Keetchino]

Wow good job everyone, looks like this was a win! As a brand new dvc member I was definitely paying attention to this thread, getting pretty concerned that this was going to be the start of a disturbing new trend of constantly increasing points. So grateful to those who put in some serious time and research bringing this issue to attention

 

[DebbieB]

Right down to the wire. 1/1/2020 can be booked tomorrow as night 7.

I think they blinked - got cold feet if it would hold up to a legal challenge. Or if it would be worth defending a legal challenge.

 

[Johnny D]

Right down to the wire. 1/1/2020 can be booked tomorrow as night 7.

I think they blinked - got cold feet if it would hold up to a legal challenge. Or if it would be worth defending a legal challenge.

Or they developed a conscience.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

DVC keeps claiming the demand for 1BRs is more than 2BRs when we know that cannot be correct, except possibly under one theory, which is the one I suspect DVC is relying on: demand is determined by total number of actual reservations of the different rooms. That is a simple way to view it, it would be very easy to calculate total reservations over a year's period per room size using the reservation system, and DVC is one prone to use the simplest (and least expensive) way to justify its actions.

Doing it that way could make 1BRs have, as now claimed by DVC, a much "higher demand" than 2BRs simply because most of the 2BR lock-offs are reserved as studios, and eventually as 1BRs as 1BRs become the only rooms still available. For example, BWV has 97 dedicated studios, 130 dedicated 1BRs, 149 2BR lock-offs, and no dedicated 2BRs. The biggest demand by far is for studios, which has annually risen in the last 9 years, partly due to DVD's selling 100 and 50 point contracts to new purchasers and adding a fifth bed to the studios. During the high demand season, late Sep to marathon weekend in January, the studios and 2BRs disappear quickly at 11 months out, likely due to studio demand, which is indicated by the fact that the 1BRs remain open much longer even during that high demand season than studios or 2BRs. During the rest of the year, studios, and thus 2BRs, disappear long before 1BRs (studios and 2BRs are often gone at or shortly after the 7 month window opens but 1BRs, including even standard and boardwalk view, often do not fill until five months or less out.

Thus, if you count total number of reservations as the measure of "demand" you could easily get a yearly conclusion that the 1BR "demand" at BWV is triple or more than the 2BR "demand."

I am not trying to justify DVC's concept of higher demand, but just attempting to identify what it likely is. The concept that most of us have for distinguishing "demand" is how many more members actually want 2BRs as opposed to 1BRs, but for determining that kind of demand, one cannot really do a count using the reservation system because you can only see that 1BRs remain available longer and are eventually filled. What you cannot see is the likely large number of members who go online because they want a 2BR but find they are no longer available and decide not to reserve at all or reserve a 1BR.

While the reversal of the charts rather makes things even more interesting I’d have to say that using something like this outline for demand is not logical. And it’s why I’d argue that the best measure is what is left at the end sans cancellations. And BWV needs to be treated differently anyway because it is unique in its configuration with zero dedicated 2brs.

 

[mustinjourney]

I am in, the viduciary duty of DVCMC does not stop at the organization but extend to the officers of the organization. Officers of DVCMC can be held personally liable for damages and penalty. I saw this happen in the Shore of Panama Condo association board who each were personally liable for multi million $ due to breach of fiduciary duty.

In the past it is very challenging to organize a suit but now days with multimedia, go fund me and internet this becoming easier to organize.

A suit will increase in transparency within the DVCMC specifically with regards to allocation and demand management areas. Go for it...

Moot point for now. They rolled back the charts!

VICTORY (for now) IS OURS!!!

 

[DVC92]

Someone on another site just posted this, saying they got it from DVC after talking to them about the reallocation. I have no idea if it is true or not.

--------

Dear Ryan,



Thank you for reaching out to our team.



Disney Vacation Club Management has revised the 2020 Vacation Points Charts originally posted on the Member website on Dec. 19, 2018.



As we have stated, the reallocation of vacation point values is outlined in the Membership Agreement and is an important part of meeting Members’ needs and expectations.



The originally posted 2020 Vacation Points Charts were consistent with the Membership Agreement. However, Disney Vacation Club Management listened to our Members’ feedback and decided to more closely align them with the 2019 Vacation Points Charts, with some adjustments for the 2020 calendar.



This will give Disney Vacation Club Management time to further analyze demand and usage patterns, along with Member feedback, and adjust Vacation Points Charts for 2021 and beyond, as appropriate.



Thank you,

Yvonne



Yvonne Chang

Director, Club Management & Regulatory Affairs

It is true. I received an identical follow-up email from Yvonne Chang time-stamped 7:42 PM today. Obviously, they are looking to make changes, however, the complaints stopped them from implementing them for 2020 with IMO such reckless disregard for member input and interests. We will see what transpires in the 2021 point charts.

 

[DebbieB]

Or they developed a conscience.

NAH. Maybe visions of Jim Lewis’ firing was haunting them.

 

[asw1520]

Moot point for now. They rolled back the charts!

VICTORY (for now) IS OURS!!!

Agreed, best to avoid suit when possible. Glad they rolled back and hope they will do internal review and re-educate DVCMC officers on the rule, their fiduciary duties and personal implications in case of breach.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

NAH. Maybe visions of Jim Lewis’ firing was haunting them.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

Congratulations to those who have been in meetings with Disney. In my opinion, this does not mean they will not do something similar next year, but hopefully it may mean they will be more thoughtful about it, they will do a better job of communicating it, and they will really consider their fiduciary duty in their decision.

 

[crvetter]

I think they will be clearer about explaining it in the future my last call they 100% seemed sincere on that point. I hope it seems right next year. As long as it’s backed up and clear it is something I could support.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I hope something about a Point reallocation is addressed at the next Member meeting, if indeed they want to change the charts so radically.

We did write, we did receive a call, and it was emphasized to us that our disappointment would be expressed to the powers that be.

 

[LYSE]

Woohoo!

Looks like the 2020 point chart has been revised.

 

[Bing Showei]

This makes me even more curious as to what exactly led them to the point reallocations in the first place, and how misguided it was that they felt it was prudent to back pedal.

At some point, someone inside Disney did something that could not be justified.

I agree with WebmasterDoc ( ) that we were not a large enough group/representive percentage of the larger membership to cause a big enough stink to affect sales, so I suspect someone (crvetter? zavandor? Some mystery member?) must have touched on something that made them take stock and realize, ok... this probably isn’t going to fly.

Thank you everyone who wrote an email, made a phone call, spoke with Yvonne, and refused to aquiesce and accept as gospel the decisions of a corporation operating behind a curtain.

 

[ziravan]

Makes me wonder if they’re hurriedly revising the Riviera point charts as well...

 

[finchy3]

Fantastic news!

Congratulations and thank you to the DVC members who challenged the change

 

[DougEMG]

Makes me wonder if they’re hurriedly revising the Riviera point charts as well...

Probably. I bet they aren't going to be as high as they originally wanted now that the studios and 1 bedrooms everywhere else went back down.

 

[Wakey]

Wow I want to thank all the Disboard members who went one step beyond with this, particularly Zavandor setting up his website and taking the lead, often in the face of people telling him he was getting it wrong- he wasn’t.
People also told Zavandor that nothing could be done to change it- but he kept going as did the others who set up calls. We salute you.
DVD and Disney is not immune to making errors, nor is it immune to legal action, the latter point I know myself for a fact.
Now I’m still not sure if this was a deliberate attempt to pull one over on members or a genuine error, but given Zavandor’s conversation with management I’m prepared to believe it was a genuine error and they didn’t quite know their own rules as well as we thought they did. The email from Yvonne also mentions more time to analyse booking patterns, which indicates they didn’t get that right either!
Finally I am pleased with them for at least listening and changing rather than digging their heels in and it going down the legal route. My faith is somewhat restored in the management, even though it shouldn’t have come to this.
The post above about the fiduciary duty of the officers personally is also spot on. They have to act in members interests as officers of DVCMC, and would likely be sued personally in any lawsuits if they hadn’t.