Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[Madame]

And given the 2010/11 experience, they may do it again for 2021.

I know, but aren’t they contractually at the max or over in some situations if PP are correct?

 

[Mumof4mice]

I would love to be able to say that I disagree here, but as depressing as it is you are probably correct. Being a part of a DVC FB site is eye opening in terms of human nature (& a but scary too).

I read your previous comment about being "shouted down" by Facebook people. Sorry that happened to you - that was uncalled for. If somebody is motivated enough to push for answers and transparency, and share the information, just say thanks!

 

[Madame]

I read your previous comment about being "shouted down" by Facebook people. Sorry that happened to you - that was uncalled for. If somebody is motivated enough to push for answers and transparency, and share the information, just say thanks!

Thanks, yes most of them don’t subscribe to the « if you don’t like it just keep scrolling » mindset.

A second thread that I started myself on the same page had a really good conversation & information being exchanged, but of course it got deleted.
The screamer is a page admin

I don’t know what it is about FB that releases the crazy. My FB profile has many former students friended, so I’m way better behaved there than here

 

[ParkHoppers]

FB is just a place for selfies of you or your food. A place mostly for fun. Not a lot of in-depth conversation on FB. I prefer forums all day long. A thousand times the info compared to FB. That being said the only place for a Disney shame campaign would be FB so I commend you for at least trying to get something going over there.

 

[Madame]

FB is just a place for selfies of you or your food. A place mostly for fun. Not a lot of in-depth conversation on FB. I prefer forums all day long. A thousand times the info compared to FB. That being said the only place for a Disney shame campaign would be FB so I commend you for at least trying to get something going over there.

Agreed & thanks. I knew going in it was pointless, but you’re right about it being the place besides Twitter to have any impact so I gave it a go.

 

[Dean]

I would love to be able to say that I disagree here, but as depressing as it is you are probably correct. Being a part of a DVC FB site is eye opening in terms of human nature (& a but scary too).

Not really depressing, just reality IMO. I guess it could be depressing if your fantasy was too far off from reality.

I know, but aren’t they contractually at the max or over in some situations if PP are correct?

Maybe, but I doubt it for most options. The limitations on change is 20% year over year and the maximum in terms of total points doesn't apply to the lockoff portions. There are some practical limitations in terms of comparing to 2 BR and for the resorts with dedicated smaller units but technically speaking as I read it, they could make all Lockoff studios, 1 BR and 2 BR the same price if they wanted or even make the smaller units more than the larger ones though realistically this would never happen apples to apples (different view types/booking categories is not apples to apples).

FB is just a place for selfies of you or your food. A place mostly for fun. Not a lot of in-depth conversation on FB. I prefer forums all day long. A thousand times the info compared to FB. That being said the only place for a Disney shame campaign would be FB so I commend you for at least trying to get something going over there.

As I've noted, I belong but don't routinely even look at FB. I didn't even join until a few years ago for a high school class reunion to link up with old classmates in prep for the event. I hear twitter is even worse but I don't belong there. The old Prodigy boards were brutal, esp one specific person out of Jacksonville, FL. If you don't like it, sell was his response to anything not totally accepting of the system.

 

[DougEMG]

Is the purpose/goal of point reallocation to balance demand at a resort or across the entire system?

For example BWV has high demand and low point cost rooms, while SSR has much lower demand. Would DVC consider it reasonable to continue to increase studios/1 bedrooms point costs at BWV (using the lockoff premium) until demand balanced among the two resorts? Would this not be a way to increases point cost at older resorts to come more in line with newer resorts point charts, this would all be done of course in the name providing increased members benefit.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Is the purpose/goal of point reallocation to balance demand at a resort or across the entire system?

Something I ran across in my POS reading this morning that I hadn't remembered noting before is that there is the Home Resort Vacation Points that are subject to rebalancing and then DVC points (that which you use at 7 months) can also be subject to rebalancing at the determination of BVTC. It states that "The number of DVC Vacation Points required to make reservations at a DVC Resort from any other DVC Resort is determined by BVTC in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion from year to year and based upon the demand balancing standard set forth above".

I may be wrong but it appeared that there could be 2 point determinations and even 2 rebalancing possibilities - the Management Company will rebalance points for Home Resorts and BVTC (which I believe is comprised of the same group as the Management Company) oversees the "trades" to other DVC resorts and could potentially create a different chart although they never have. Since it references "above" rebalancing which is the section about 20%, point increases/decreases, units and Vacation homes that are under discussion it does seem like it still can't shift requirements between resorts.

Am I interpreting that all correctly?

 

[the_grinch]

FB is just a place for selfies of you or your food. A place mostly for fun. Not a lot of in-depth conversation on FB. I prefer forums all day long. A thousand times the info compared to FB. That being said the only place for a Disney shame campaign would be FB so I commend you for at least trying to get something going over there.

i plan on getting a shirt made with "DVC Rip off ?" on front and on back "ask about 2020 point chart"
one thing that made me believe DVC was not like other timeshare was the normal person talking it up,so i figure if we are there best advertisement we should let furture buys know the bad at times

 

[Frederic Civish]

When Disney does rent out a DVC room at rack rate how does that work? I thought they have a certain number of points they can use per year to grab these rooms. Can they go over this specific amount?

Okay, I know that all the following message is going to be rather 'inflammatory' but I don't know any other way to put it.

Disney does own a small percentage of each resort. Often around 2.5%. Now, in the following example, my figures (and my understanding might be wrong), are as follows. It seems to me that: At Polynesian, if there are 4 million points and if each of those points sells for $200 (approximate) then $200 X 2.5 X 4,000,000 = $20,000,000 in value that Disney owns, just at Polynesian. So, of the 4 million points, Disney owns about 90,000 of them, and if they rented them out, and if each point is worth $16 per rental, then every year, Disney would get 90,000 X $16 = $1.44 million per year. Doesn't sound like too much, really. Who would begrudge Disney that. But, Disney also gets 'Breakage.' Breakage is when people have not reserved their points and it is now within 60 days of the the reservation day. In other words, if a Studio, 1-Bedroom or 2-Bedroom unit isn't rented out by 60 days before the Check-In date, then, as I understand it, Disney has the right to grab those points, from that unit, and rent the unit out. Let's say there are 10 Polynesian Bungalows, that don't rent out and it is now 60 days before the check in date (actual number is almost certainly lower than this, but there probably are almost always SOME Polynesian Bungalows that don't rent out, at 60 days before check-in. In fact, at the time I am writing this, there are not only Polynesian Bungalows available at 60 days out, but there seem to be a significant number that are available at 30 days out. In fact there are a number of Bungalows available at 23 days out and beyond. If you assume that there is breakage and that Disney gets most of the points for that, and that Disney WILL rent them out, as illustrated by the fact that there currently are no Bungalows available to Reserve, until you get to 23 days out, then you have to assume that Disney is consistently making a good amount of 'Extra' money from breakage.) At 125 points per night, per Bungalow (approximate average) then that gives Disney 125 X 10 = 1250 points and at $16 a point, Disney earns $20,000. $20,000 x 365 days per year would be $7.3 million dollars. And of that, from ALL the breakage, per year, Disney must return A MAXIMUM of 2.5% back to the DVC owner's association. So, 0.025 (2.5%) X $7.3 million means that Disney will be returning a MAXIMUM of $182,000 to us, and will be keeping $7,117,500 for themselves. What a Deal, for THEM. So, why am I talking about Polynesian Bungalows? Because it is another example of a time that Disney did something for their own benefit, so they could SKIM the points off DVC owners. AND, it illustrates how much Disney makes off points.

Now, let's look at the '2-Bedroom Lock-Off Premium' which is what Disney gets if a 2-Bedroom Lockoff is split into a single studio and a single 1-Bedroom.

Here is the number of Standard 2-Bedrooms and Lock-Offs at each resort (except Poly, since I already talked about that as a separate case).

Resort: Dedicated 2 BR - Lockoff 2 BR

Old Key West 274 - 230
Boardwalk Villas 0 - 149
Boulder Ridge Villas at Wilderness Lodge 44 - 45
Beach Club Villas 78 - 74
Saratoga Springs 360 - 432
Animal Kingdom Villas – Jambo House 0 - 82
Animal Kingdom Villas – Kidani Village 140 - 168
Bay Lake Tower 148 - 133
Villas at Grand Floridian 47 - 47
Copper Creek Villas at Wilderness Lodge 56 - 36

In 2020, the Point Cost of a Studio PLUS a 1 Bedroom will be approximately 10 more points per night (about 5 points each for the Studio and 1-Bedroom), than the cost of a 2-Bedroom or a 2-Bedroom Lock-Off. THIS IS THE LOCK-OFF PREMIUM. Now, let's assume that when people reserve 2-Bedroom units, that ALL of the regular 2-bedroom units are reserved. The people that use them will get them at a 10 point per night discount, because of the Lock-Off premium. (This is no skin off Disney's nose, since it just balances the rise that they already made in the point cost of the Studios and 1-bedrooms.) But, of the 2-Bedroom Lock-Offs, let's assume that DVC members reserve half of the Lock-Offs as 2-Bedrooms and half as a separate Studio and a separate 1-bedroom. If they do that, then in each case where they ‘split’, they will create a 10 point windfall, per unit per night, for Disney. So, how much would this be? At 1/2 of them splitting, that would be about 115 lock-offs at OKW. 75 at BWV. 23 at Boulder Ridge. 38 at Breach Club. 216 at SSR. 42 at Jambo and 84 at Kidani. 66 at BLT. 24 at Grand Floridian and 18 at Copper Creek. If you add this up, then 115 + 75 + 23 + 38 + 216 + 42 +84 +66 +24 +18 = 700 units per night that 'split.' And this creates 7000 points for Disney, which, if they are worth $16 a point is $112,000 per night and X 365 = $40,880,000 more, per year, for Disney, that comes DIRECTLY from the ownership and points of the DVC members. Not a bad chunk of change. And this is ALL from the 'Lock-Off Premium' which they have created and have now increased. (Keep in mind WHO pays that Lock-off Premium? It is US! So $40 million from US, the DVC Owners.)

And, yeah, sure, they are supposed to pay a MAXIMUM of 2.5% back to the DVC Owners, which would be $1,022,000, BUT, we won't even get that, because, I BELIEVE THE AMOUNT THAT DISNEY MUST RETURN TO US IS CAPPED. And I believe the cap is somewhere around $150,000 per resort, per year. (I don't really remember the real figure), so, in actuality, we would be getting NONE of it back.

Now, don't you think Disney did this as a VERY self-serving move? I agree that my figures are suppositions and estimates. ONLY DISNEY knows for sure. But I really feel that they are probably in the general Ballpark. Disney will be earning $40,000,000 for EXTRA POINTS that it sucks out of the pockets of the DVC owners. For shame!

 

[Jerry5788]

Okay, I know that all the following messag (is going to be rather 'inflammatory' but I don't know any other way to put it.

Disney does own a small percentage of each resort. Often around 4%. Now, in the following example, my figures (and my understanding might be wrong), are as follows. It seems to me that: At Polynesian, if there are 7 million points and if each of those points sells for $200 (approximate) then $200 X 4% x 7,000,000 = $56,000,000 in value that Disney owns, just at Polynesian. So, of the 7 million points, Disney owns 280,000 of them, and if they rented them out, and if each point is worth $16 per rental, then every year, Disney would get 280,000 X $16 = $4.48 million per year. Doesn't sound like too much, really. Who would begrudge Disney that. But, Disney also gets 'Breakage.' Breakage is when people have not reserved their points and it is now within 60 days of the the reservation day. In other words, if a Studio, 1-Bedroom or 2-Bedroom unit isn't rented out by 60 days before the Check-In date, then, as I understand it, Disney has the right to grab those points, from that unit, and rent the unit out. Let's say there are 10 Polynesian Bungalows, that don't rent out and it is now 60 days before the check in date (actual number is almost certainly lower than this, but there probably are almost always SOME Polynesian Bungalows that don't rent out, at 60 days before check-in. In fact, at the time I am writing this, there are not only Polynesian Bungalows available at 60 days out, but there seem to be a significant number that are available at 30 days out. In fact there are a number of Bungalows available at 23 days out and beyond. If you assume that there is breakage and that Disney gets most of the points for that, and that Disney WILL rent them out, as illustrated by the fact that there currently are no Bungalows available to Reserve, until you get to 23 days out, then you have to assume that Disney is consistently making a good amount of 'Extra' money from breakage.) At 125 points per night, per Bungalow (approximate average) then that gives Disney 125 X 10 = 1250 points and at $16 a point, Disney earns $20,000. $20,000 x 365 days per year would be $7.3 million dollars. And of that, from ALL the breakage, per year, Disney must return A MAXIMUM of 2.5% back to the DVC owner's association. So, 0.025 (2.5%) X $7.3 million means that Disney will be returning a MAXIMUM of $182,000 to us, and will be keeping $7,117,500 for themselves. What a Deal, for THEM. So, why am I talking about Polynesian Bungalows? Because it is another example of a time that Disney did something for their own benefit, so they could SKIM the points off DVC owners. AND, it illustrates how much Disney makes off points.

Now, let's look at the '2-Bedroom Lock-Off Premium' which is what Disney gets if a 2-Bedroom Lockoff is split into a single studio and a single 1-Bedroom.

Here is the number of Standard 2-Bedrooms and Lock-Offs at each resort (except Poly, since I already talked about that as a separate case).

Resort: Dedicated 2BR - Lockoff 2 BR

Old Key West 274 - 230
Boardwalk Villas 0 - 149
Boulder Ridge Villas at Wilderness Lodge 44 - 45
Beach Club Villas 78 - 74
Saratoga Springs 360 - 432
Animal Kingdom Villas – Jambo House 0 - 82
Animal Kingdom Villas – Kidani Village 140 - 168
Bay Lake Tower 148 - 133
Villas at Grand Floridian 47 - 47
Copper Creek Villas at Wilderness Lodge 56 - 36

In 2020, the Point Cost of a Studio PLUS a 1 Bedroom will be approximately 10 more points per night (about 5 points each for the Studio and 1-Bedroom), than the cost of a 2-Bedroom or a 2-Bedroom Lock-Off. THIS IS THE LOCK-OFF PREMIUM. Now, let's assume that when people reserve 2-Bedroom units, that ALL of the regular 2-bedroom units are reserved. The people that use them will get them at a 10 point per night discount, because of the Lock-Off premium. (This is no skin off Disney's nose, since it just balances the rise that they already made in the point cost of the Studios and 1-bedrooms.) But, of the 2-Bedroom Lock-Offs, let's assume that DVC members reserve half of the Lock-Offs as 2-Bedrooms and half as a separate Studio and a separate 1-bedroom. If they do that, then in each case, they will create a 10 point windfall, per unit per night, for Disney. So, how much would this be? At 1/2 of them splitting, that would be about 115 lock-offs at OKW. 75 at BWV. 23 at Boulder Ridge. 38 at Breach Club. 216 at SSR. 42 at Jambo and 84 at Kidani. 66 at BLT. 24 at Grand Floridian and 18 at Copper Creek. If you add this up, then 115 + 75 + 23 + 38 + 216 + 42 +84 +66 +24 +18 = 700 units per night that 'split.' And this creates 7000 points for Disney, which, if they are worth $16 a point is $112,000 per night and X 365 = $40,880,000 more, per year, for Disney, that comes DIRECTLY from the ownership and points of the DVC members. Not a bad chunk of change. And this is ALL from the 'Lock-Off Premium' which they have created and have now increased.

And, yeah, sure, they are supposed to pay a MAXIMUM of 2.5% back to the DVC Owners, which would be $1,022,000, BUT, we won't even get that, because, I BELIEVE THE AMOUNT THAT DISNEY MUST RETURN TO US IS CAPPED. And I believe the cap is somewhere around $150,000 per resort, per year. (I don't really remember the real figure), so, in actuality, we would be getting NONE of it back.

Now, don't you think Disney did this as a VERY self-serving move? I agree that my figures are suppositions and estimates. ONLY DISNEY knows for sure. But I really feel that they are probably in the general Ballpark. Disney will be earning $40,000,000 for EXTRA POINTS that is sucks out of the pockets of the DVC owners. For shame!

Good analysis and glad I learned about breakage. Some points I’d make

1. $16pp is probably too conservative - Disney rents at their rack rate
2. Disney probably still has trouble renting all bungalows so expensive!
3. The premium resorts to my knowledge are all gone 60days out - so maybe breakage they only capture is Ssr, okw, and akv (a little) [excluding hhi, aul, and vb as they are all more seasonal]

Perhaps Disney makes more bc more Ssr and okw rooms available do to this breakage. My guess is more breakage rooms exist more bc people bank points bc they couldn’t get room they wanted at 7 months rather than slippage of points: but to your point only Disney knows!

 

[Frederic Civish]

I’m just missing the part how Disney really benefits from these lock-off premium stuff. Perhaps they benefit for people needing to top up on contracts

Jerry, see my post on approximately Page 11 (probably just a few posts above this one) where I show how Disney could EASILY be making $40,000,000 extra, per year, from the Lock-off Premium.

But they have already done it and you haven't said anything
Can our rights expire in the middle of the validity of our contract? I don't think so.

Disney could try to claim that we gave up any right to challenge them, or protest, since we didn't do it years ago, when they initially started making these kinds of changes. However, I don't think that would fly. Why? Because in ALL of their dealings with DVC Members, on this, THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN LESS THAN TRANSPARENT. So, it could be said that they were hiding and obfuscating their actions, even if they weren't doing it intentionally. And, that doesn't even mention the possibility of FRAUD. I'm not saying that the actions of Disney rise to the level of Fraud. However, IF this is judged to be only a self-serving thing, and IF they have violated the rules as stated in the contracts, then some people would call it fraud.

 

[Frederic Civish]

Disney probably still has trouble renting all bungalows so expensive!

The premium resorts to my knowledge are all gone 60 days out - so maybe breakage they only capture is Ssr, okw, and akv (a little) [excluding hhi, aul, and vb as they are all more seasonal.

Actually, it appears that they probably have almost no trouble renting out the Bungalows. In the next 3 weeks there are essentially NO Bungalows available to rent, from Disney or from DVC points. Ergo, any that broke MUST be rented out.

It is true that on most resorts, there probably is not that much 'Breakage.' That is why I only talked about Breakage at Poly. The Bungalows break, very very frequently. There also is almost certainly some breakage at the other resorts you mentioned. BUT, the Lock-Off Premium is entirely different from Breakage. And it starts immediately, once all the Dedicated Studios are reserved, and the DVC Members then turn the the 'Lock-Off' Studios. They don't even realize they are getting it from a lock off. They only know that they wanted a Studio and one was available, but by selecting it, they separate the lock-off and create the Lock-off windfall that then goes to Disney.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Good analysis and glad I learned about breakage. Some points I’d make

1. $16pp is probably too conservative - Disney rents at their rack rate
2. Disney probably still has trouble renting all bungalows so expensive!
3. The premium resorts to my knowledge are all gone 60days out - so maybe breakage they only capture is Ssr, okw, and akv (a little) [excluding hhi, aul, and vb as they are all more seasonal]

Perhaps Disney makes more bc more Ssr and okw rooms available do to this breakage. My guess is more breakage rooms exist more bc people bank points bc they couldn’t get room they wanted at 7 months rather than slippage of points: but to your point only Disney knows!

Every resort maxes out on the breakage income. What we don't know is what the total is and how much goes back to DVC. With more point requirements for owners to book though there should be more villas left unbooked by members to end up in breakage.

 

[RobDoc]

Is the purpose/goal of point reallocation to balance demand at a resort or across the entire system? ......

Reallocation is to balance demand at a resort. I have not looked at the non-WDW resorts except HH, but the 2020 point charts for HH are the same as 2019. Among the WDW resorts, OKW seems to have had a minimal change compared to some of the other resorts.

There is no suggestion in the POS that reallocation would attempt to balance the entire DVC collection.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Reallocation is to balance demand at a resort. I have not looked at the non-WDW resorts except HH, but the 2020 point charts for HH are the same as 2019. Among the WDW resorts, OKW seems to have had a minimal change compared to some of the other resorts.

There is no suggestion in the POS that reallocation would attempt to balance the entire DVC collection.

They actually might with statements of having the option to change point requirements for those who trade to non-home resorts at 7 months. They also state they can consider the demand of the location when making those requirements. Hopefully I'm misinterpreting it but have read it twice today.

 

[DougEMG]

Resort: Dedicated 2BR - Lockoff 2 BR
Boardwalk Villas 0 - 149

Reallocation is to balance demand at a resort. I have not looked at the non-WDW resorts except HH, but the 2020 point charts for HH are the same as 2019. Among the WDW resorts, OKW seems to have had a minimal change compared to some of the other resorts.

There is no suggestion in the POS that reallocation would attempt to balance the entire DVC collection.

So here is my question then. Why change the points at BWV at all? The entire resort is always booked up regardless of season or room category, nothing is ever sitting empty there. The main category that went down was 2 bedrooms, but all 2 bedrooms at BWV are lock-offs, so there are never any 2 bedrooms at BWV sitting empty because they cost too much, they are all going to be booked up as studios and 1 bedrooms at the very least. So why make them cheaper?

It is very clear to me that the only thing that should of happened at BWV is that some of the weeks should of been switched to different seasons to reflect the actual real demand of members.

Right now every single BWV owner that wants a studio is going to have to pay more points except in Adventure Season Preferred view which stays the same. Similarly for the 1 bedrooms every season is going up except for Preferred view in Dream & Magic (down 2%)

 

[wdrl]

Okay, I know that all the following message is going to be rather 'inflammatory' but I don't know any other way to put it.

At Polynesian, if there are 7 million points and if each of those points sells for $200 (approximate) then $200 X 4% x 7,000,000 = $56,000,000 in value that Disney owns, just at Polynesian. So, of the 7 million points, Disney owns 280,000 of them,


And of that, from ALL the breakage, per year, Disney must return A MAXIMUM of 2.5% back to the DVC owner's association. So, 0.025 (2.5%) X $7.3 million means that Disney will be returning a MAXIMUM of $182,000 to us, and will be keeping $7,117,500 for themselves.

FYI:
The Polynesian has about 4,032,720 points. About 3,945,000 PVB points are owned by the general public, leaving less than 90,000 points under the control of Disney.

In 2019, the PVB condo association is budgeted to receive $520,599 in breakage inventory. In the 2018 budget year, PVB was budgeted to receive $458,120 in breakage income.

 

[zavandor]

Okay, I know that all the following message is going to be rather 'inflammatory' but I don't know any other way to put it.

Disney does own a small percentage of each resort. Often around 4%. Now, in the following example, my figures (and my understanding might be wrong), are as follows. It seems to me that: At Polynesian, if there are 7 million points and if each of those points sells for $200 (approximate) then $200 X 4% x 7,000,000 = $56,000,000 in value that Disney owns, just at Polynesian. So, of the 7 million points, Disney owns 280,000 of them, and if they rented them out, and if each point is worth $16 per rental, then every year, Disney would get 280,000 X $16 = $4.48 million per year. Doesn't sound like too much, really. Who would begrudge Disney that. But, Disney also gets 'Breakage.' Breakage is when people have not reserved their points and it is now within 60 days of the the reservation day. In other words, if a Studio, 1-Bedroom or 2-Bedroom unit isn't rented out by 60 days before the Check-In date, then, as I understand it, Disney has the right to grab those points, from that unit, and rent the unit out. Let's say there are 10 Polynesian Bungalows, that don't rent out and it is now 60 days before the check in date (actual number is almost certainly lower than this, but there probably are almost always SOME Polynesian Bungalows that don't rent out, at 60 days before check-in. In fact, at the time I am writing this, there are not only Polynesian Bungalows available at 60 days out, but there seem to be a significant number that are available at 30 days out. In fact there are a number of Bungalows available at 23 days out and beyond. If you assume that there is breakage and that Disney gets most of the points for that, and that Disney WILL rent them out, as illustrated by the fact that there currently are no Bungalows available to Reserve, until you get to 23 days out, then you have to assume that Disney is consistently making a good amount of 'Extra' money from breakage.) At 125 points per night, per Bungalow (approximate average) then that gives Disney 125 X 10 = 1250 points and at $16 a point, Disney earns $20,000. $20,000 x 365 days per year would be $7.3 million dollars. And of that, from ALL the breakage, per year, Disney must return A MAXIMUM of 2.5% back to the DVC owner's association. So, 0.025 (2.5%) X $7.3 million means that Disney will be returning a MAXIMUM of $182,000 to us, and will be keeping $7,117,500 for themselves. What a Deal, for THEM. So, why am I talking about Polynesian Bungalows? Because it is another example of a time that Disney did something for their own benefit, so they could SKIM the points off DVC owners. AND, it illustrates how much Disney makes off points.

Now, let's look at the '2-Bedroom Lock-Off Premium' which is what Disney gets if a 2-Bedroom Lockoff is split into a single studio and a single 1-Bedroom.

Here is the number of Standard 2-Bedrooms and Lock-Offs at each resort (except Poly, since I already talked about that as a separate case).

Resort: Dedicated 2BR - Lockoff 2 BR

Old Key West 274 - 230
Boardwalk Villas 0 - 149
Boulder Ridge Villas at Wilderness Lodge 44 - 45
Beach Club Villas 78 - 74
Saratoga Springs 360 - 432
Animal Kingdom Villas – Jambo House 0 - 82
Animal Kingdom Villas – Kidani Village 140 - 168
Bay Lake Tower 148 - 133
Villas at Grand Floridian 47 - 47
Copper Creek Villas at Wilderness Lodge 56 - 36

In 2020, the Point Cost of a Studio PLUS a 1 Bedroom will be approximately 10 more points per night (about 5 points each for the Studio and 1-Bedroom), than the cost of a 2-Bedroom or a 2-Bedroom Lock-Off. THIS IS THE LOCK-OFF PREMIUM. Now, let's assume that when people reserve 2-Bedroom units, that ALL of the regular 2-bedroom units are reserved. The people that use them will get them at a 10 point per night discount, because of the Lock-Off premium. (This is no skin off Disney's nose, since it just balances the rise that they already made in the point cost of the Studios and 1-bedrooms.) But, of the 2-Bedroom Lock-Offs, let's assume that DVC members reserve half of the Lock-Offs as 2-Bedrooms and half as a separate Studio and a separate 1-bedroom. If they do that, then in each case, they will create a 10 point windfall, per unit per night, for Disney. So, how much would this be? At 1/2 of them splitting, that would be about 115 lock-offs at OKW. 75 at BWV. 23 at Boulder Ridge. 38 at Breach Club. 216 at SSR. 42 at Jambo and 84 at Kidani. 66 at BLT. 24 at Grand Floridian and 18 at Copper Creek. If you add this up, then 115 + 75 + 23 + 38 + 216 + 42 +84 +66 +24 +18 = 700 units per night that 'split.' And this creates 7000 points for Disney, which, if they are worth $16 a point is $112,000 per night and X 365 = $40,880,000 more, per year, for Disney, that comes DIRECTLY from the ownership and points of the DVC members. Not a bad chunk of change. And this is ALL from the 'Lock-Off Premium' which they have created and have now increased.

And, yeah, sure, they are supposed to pay a MAXIMUM of 2.5% back to the DVC Owners, which would be $1,022,000, BUT, we won't even get that, because, I BELIEVE THE AMOUNT THAT DISNEY MUST RETURN TO US IS CAPPED. And I believe the cap is somewhere around $150,000 per resort, per year. (I don't really remember the real figure), so, in actuality, we would be getting NONE of it back.

Now, don't you think Disney did this as a VERY self-serving move? I agree that my figures are suppositions and estimates. ONLY DISNEY knows for sure. But I really feel that they are probably in the general Ballpark. Disney will be earning $40,000,000 for EXTRA POINTS that is sucks out of the pockets of the DVC owners. For shame!

The 2.5% cap is not applied to every transaction, it is global and refers to the whole budget of the resort.
So if the total budget of the Poly is 1,000,000 the breakage cap is 25,000.
If the cap was already reached in 2019 at a resort, then the extra breakage generated by the increase in the lockoff premium in 2020 goes straight into DVC pockets. In full.
I have read that at every resort the cap has been reached every year as far back as everyone can remember.
And the extra gain is even better than renting regular rooms: in an hotel Disney pays maintenance, housekeeping, utility bills... for DVC rooms into breakage those things are paid by members, it is 99% net gain. The only think they pay (I believe) is the cost of the people working in CRO who book the reservation.

 

[drusba]

A lawsuit may eventually be the only solution but I suggest that the immediate activity should be for those who are opposed to what DVC has done to write a letter to the new Senior VP similar to the one I did, portions of which are posted in another thread, see https://www.disboards.com/threads/2020-point-charts.3725229/page-23. Communicating with MS via phone or email is most likely going to get little but canned answers that address none of the real questions and concerns. That is partially because the people who receive those calls or emails have nothing to do with determining the point charts. If we get a lot of letters to the Senior VP we will at least get the attention of those who are responsible for making and approving the charts and make it known that many are concerned.

The main point I have made in a letter to DVC is that the reallocation clause in the DVC Membership Agreement allows point adjustments if, and only if, the increase in points for any use days for a particular vacation home, such as a studio, is offset by an equal decrease in other use days for the same vacation home.

That interpretation is consistent with all language in all the documents. It is consistent with, and aids in preventing violation of, the bar against increasing or decreasing total points for a unit or total points for the resort as a whole. It is consistent with the clause in the reallocation section that states that due to an evening out of demand, the points per night for the each use day of the year could be the same. Even that clause speaks only of the ability to adjust points in a use day or a season, not any ability to take points from one type of vacation home and put them in another. Nowhere, anywhere, in any document is there any language that allows that.

The rule requiring any increase to be met by a decrease in the same vacation home is what makes any possible studio or 1BR "premium" in relation to 2BRs of no moment. As long as DVC cannot move points from 2BRs to studios and 1BRs, the existing premium does not change. What can change, due to changes in seasonal demand, is the points for a studio needed in a season but if that happens there must be an equal decrease in another season. But doing that leaves the current total annual points needed to reserve studios the same and thus does not change any "premium."

In other words, one can raise the premium and other issues with DVC but the lead issue everyone should be raising in writing with DVC is that the written agreement requires any increase in a vacation home to be met by an equal decrease in other use days in the same vacation home.