Would you go into debt to make sure your DC graduated HS?

[crisi]

Thinking about it, I'm wondering how the school has a 100% graduation rate. That just don't seem right. There are no kids in that school who drop out because they end up in rehab or pregnant? None who get ill and don't graduate? None who just say "screw this."

I'm guessing that the stats are cooked. They are highly selective about who they bring in, and I guess they ask students to leave if the student isn't performing. That if you'd talk to some of those parents whose kids are doing so well that they are mainstreamed, you'd hear a different story from some of the parents.

If its too good to be true, it probably is. A 100% graduation rate with a regular high school dipolma for special needs students? - that isn't right unless you cook your stats. Kids drop out of Andover and Exeter. Or they try to - the schools dump the kids so their lack of graduation isn't on THEM.

I'd dig a lot harder before I'd go into debt for this.

 

[Alexander]

I think the first thing that needs to be done, is the child needs an IEP. It sounds like one has not been written yet from the OP's posts. If that is the case, then there is nothing that the school "has" to do extra for the child. If an IEP states that specific services are to be given and the school is not able to offer them, then, there is grounds to seek alternate education with the financial burden falling on the school district.

So, I think that step one has to be to get the IEP written out so that it states exactly what the child is going to need in terms of services and then go on from there.

 

[jodifla]

Thinking about it, I'm wondering how the school has a 100% graduation rate. That just don't seem right. There are no kids in that school who drop out because they end up in rehab or pregnant? None who get ill and don't graduate? None who just say "screw this."

I'm guessing that the stats are cooked. They are highly selective about who they bring in, and I guess they ask students to leave if the student isn't performing. That if you'd talk to some of those parents whose kids are doing so well that they are mainstreamed, you'd hear a different story from some of the parents.

If its too good to be true, it probably is. A 100% graduation rate with a regular high school dipolma for special needs students? - that isn't right unless you cook your stats. Kids drop out of Andover and Exeter. Or they try to - the schools dump the kids so their lack of graduation isn't on THEM.

I'd dig a lot harder before I'd go into debt for this.

The school is small, maybe 20 kids graduate every year or so? Many return to their home schools before graduation, largely because they feel they are now able to deal with the larger classrooms.

They definitely cherry-pick who comes in, they'll tell you that. I know through my community several who send their child there, who feel it was a great decision.

This isn't a school for everybody by any means. But it fits a certain small demographic.

But I will dig harder...I'm sure there are unhappy folks out there too.

 

[jodifla]

I think the first thing that needs to be done, is the child needs an IEP. It sounds like one has not been written yet from the OP's posts. If that is the case, then there is nothing that the school "has" to do extra for the child. If an IEP states that specific services are to be given and the school is not able to offer them, then, there is grounds to seek alternate education with the financial burden falling on the school district.

So, I think that step one has to be to get the IEP written out so that it states exactly what the child is going to need in terms of services and then go on from there.

There's an IEP and he's doing well. The current school is meeting his needs. But the whole ballgame changes for middle school. Not one teacher, but 6 or 7.

 

[gina2000]

I don't know what your school district is like but I can tell you about ours and how we transition elementary school students with IEPs to middle school.

The first thing we do is look over IEPs as a group. There are some accomodations that do not work in middle school that work well in elementary school. We talk about each accomodation and try to structure it so that the student's transition is as easy and smooth as If possible. Our guidance counselors also call the elementary school to find out what accomodations work well. If need be, we schedule an immediate IEP meeting to strategize with the parents to help the student transition successfully.

Sometimes we need to immediately have an IEP meeting with parents to discuss what works/what doesn't work. We discuss the transitions the student will face and try to minimize learning disruption. Parents can give us background and insight into strategies that have been successful in past classrooms.

We try very hard to help the student transition successfully. I can't comment on your school, the capability of the school to immediately respond to your child's needs, nor the district's commitment to educating a student with your child's disability. But if I were you, I would schedule a meeting with guidance this summer to discuss your child's needs. You will be able to assess based on responses received.

If I didn't feel that the environment was optimum for my student, I would go into debt. Smaller classrooms, more teachers, aides....and individual learning work better for virtually every student.

 

[Alexander]

There's an IEP and he's doing well. The current school is meeting his needs. But the whole ballgame changes for middle school. Not one teacher, but 6 or 7.

I understand now! I will tell you that our school district also does not do special education well at the secondary level. Our elementary schools do okay (I have certainly seen better) but at the middle school and high school levels it is a joke. An aid goes with the kids from class to class but kids with all kinds of needs are lumped together.

Last year DS who does not have special needs but was in the inclusion homeroom had classmates who were MR, Autistic, ED, LD, and ESL all lumped together in his class with 2 aids who followed them from class to class. There were 29 students in his homeroom and 7 of them had special needs. One of the aids was there solely for the ED child.

I teach at the elementary level in our district and have had LD students many years. When they go onto the middle school, they simply have an aid follow them. Then to top it all off, they don't have those kids go to art, music, home and careers, etc. They give them remediation in math, reading, etc. How about letting those kids go to a class they might actually be successful in!?!?

 

[nunzia]

..this whole discussion is a great thread to submit to those who feel school choice and the voucher system could be a good thing.

 

[DawnM]

I have a middle school (8th grade this year) son with Asperger's. There is no way I would put him in our public schools, even though they are some of the
"best." He struggles in large groups is his first issue. I won't go into the others because I don't feel the need to defend my decision, but to me it would be like throwing him to the wolves.

And yes, I have sat through many IEP meetings as a public school counselor and teacher for over 16 years. The idea at most schools is to mainstream if at all possible (even if not really in the best interest of the child.) He was mainstreamed and it was NOT in his best interest.

We homeschool and he is thriving!

There is a private school that could meet his needs but it is about $20K per year and 20 miles each way to get there. I might consider it if I had no other options, but at this point I do have the option to homeschool.

Dawn

 

[lucigo]

The first thing you need to do is apply for the McKay scholarship, that way you have it in case you need it. Talk to the private school and find out how much the McKay will cover. I know here in Pensacola there is a private school that uses McKay for 100% and doesn't charge the families any extra, however they do have to provide transportation for their child.

My long term plan is to keep my son in public school as long as possible (entering 3rd grade), but to pull him out and have him do virtual school if and when the time comes, and not full time virtual, but homeschool virtual. This would mean he would graduate with a homeschool diploma. I have already spoken with Pensacola State College re my older daughter, and they accept a homeschool diploma and have the child take an entrance exam for placement. No FCAT, no SAT, just placement test. If he would test low in a subject (math?) he would begin college in remedial math, but he wouldn't be turned away.

So far we have been very happy with the school system. I just had his transition IEP to intermediate school. I was expecting a fight, and walked away shocked. Not only was there no fight involved, his placement is better than I ever could have asked for. We have been hoping to move to central Florida, but because things are going so well here its my major hesitation in moving!

As for going into debt...since our son was 18 months old and we started therapy, 4x a week driving into town for speech therapy, OT, play therapy, music therapy....its been about making choices. To only work part time, to stay in a smaller house, to drive older cars. It is what it is, and I don't regret it a bit.

 

[pintamino]

..this whole discussion is a great thread to submit to those who feel school choice and the voucher system could be a good thing.

I'm pretty sure this thread is a great example of exactly why school choice and the voucher system is a great option?

 

[crisi]

I'm pretty sure this thread is a great example of exactly why school choice and the voucher system is a great option?

Vouchers would be set at a per child level - and it really wouldn't be sufficient to get a child a GOOD private school education. A special needs kid would need more money than a voucher would provide. Either vouchers would destroy special education, or they wouldn't affect it at all because the current programs would still exist.

 

[sukhakuli]

Plus private schools have the right not to accept special needs kids. How would a voucher help anyone if the school will not let him in?

OP, you said that this private school is very picky about who they allow in and only allow in 20 students. Are you sure they will accept your child since he has an IEP? We've looked in to private schools for my son, and once they hear the A word (autism) they tell me flat out he would not be welcome in their school. Well, one school said they would grudgingly let him in, but the first time he screwed up he was out. Not exactly a welcoming environment. That's one plus to public school - I've never run in to that attitude. They have to take him.

 

[pigletto]

I haven't read the responses so I am sure I am repeating others on some points. The short answer is Yes I would. If I felt the child had the drive to go out and grab the life waiting for them, then yes I would.
And what I mean by that is that if the child (not yours but hypothetical) was surly and entitled and couldn't care less then I wouldn't. I am thinking more in terms of helping with University or College with that opinion though.

And if it hasn't been asked have you considered homeschooling? It's an avenue I think of and wonder about for my children DAILY. They are thriving and have no academic issues so there is no immediacy, but if they were struggling in any way and I felt the school couldn't meet their needs I am confident that my husband and I could with the right supports and mentors.

 

[MrsPete]

The idea at most schools is to mainstream if at all possible (even if not really in the best interest of the child.) He was mainstreamed and it was NOT in his best interest.

It's more than the idea -- it's the law. How many times have you heard the words "least restrictive environment"? If the student can make it in a mainstream class, he has to be placed in one. If he can't quite do that, but can make it if he's in four mainstream classes with two special classes, he has to do that. He has to be placed in a situation that is as close to that of an average student as he can possibly manage. He must be placed in the situation that, for him, is least restrictive.

I teach at the elementary level in our district and have had LD students many years. When they go onto the middle school, they simply have an aid follow them. Then to top it all off, they don't have those kids go to art, music, home and careers, etc. They give them remediation in math, reading, etc. How about letting those kids go to a class they might actually be successful in!?!?

This isn't what I see at the high school level.

Our self-contained students -- the ones who can handle being out of the self-contained room -- tend to go out for 1-2 classes per day. They tend to go into PE, art and music classes. They get their basic English, math, etc. in the self-contained room; however, those are the students who are on the Occupational Education diploma track. They don't take state end-of-course tests, and their work is nothing like English 1, Algebra 1, etc. that the mainstreamed kids take -- these are the kids who cannot handle that mainstream track.

Kids on the mainstream track -- the ones who are not self-contained and who are headed for a General Ed diploma -- must take the mainstream English 1, Algebra 1, etc. Their IEPs may allow them extra time, separate setting for tests, or similar items, and they have a study hall each day that provides reinforcement for what they've done in class; that study hall is ONE of their electives. The vast majority of these students are highly successful; it's rare that one of them fails my class, and most are able to exempt the exam. If they aren't capable of being successful in English 1, Algebra 1, etc. with extra support, they end up in the Occupational Education classes.

Vouchers would be set at a per child level - and it really wouldn't be sufficient to get a child a GOOD private school education. A special needs kid would need more money than a voucher would provide. Either vouchers would destroy special education, or they wouldn't affect it at all because the current programs would still exist.

Yeah, too many people think, "If we had vouchers, I could send my kid to such-and-such expensive school." The reality is that if that school costs 20K right now, it would become 18K PLUS your voucher. If you can't afford it now, you wouldn't be able to afford it later -- and your taxes would increase to pay for the vouchers.

 

[Alexander]

It's more than the idea -- it's the law. How many times have you heard the words "least restrictive environment"? If the student can make it in a mainstream class, he has to be placed in one. If he can't quite do that, but can make it if he's in four mainstream classes with two special classes, he has to do that. He has to be placed in a situation that is as close to that of an average student as he can possibly manage. He must be placed in the situation that, for him, is least restrictive.This isn't what I see at the high school level.

Our self-contained students -- the ones who can handle being out of the self-contained room -- tend to go out for 1-2 classes per day. They tend to go into PE, art and music classes. They get their basic English, math, etc. in the self-contained room; however, those are the students who are on the Occupational Education diploma track. They don't take state end-of-course tests, and their work is nothing like English 1, Algebra 1, etc. that the mainstreamed kids take -- these are the kids who cannot handle that mainstream track.

Kids on the mainstream track -- the ones who are not self-contained and who are headed for a General Ed diploma -- must take the mainstream English 1, Algebra 1, etc. Their IEPs may allow them extra time, separate setting for tests, or similar items, and they have a study hall each day that provides reinforcement for what they've done in class; that study hall is ONE of their electives. The vast majority of these students are highly successful; it's rare that one of them fails my class, and most are able to exempt the exam. If they aren't capable of being successful in English 1, Algebra 1, etc. with extra support, they end up in the Occupational Education classes.
Yeah, too many people think, "If we had vouchers, I could send my kid to such-and-such expensive school." The reality is that if that school costs 20K right now, it would become 18K PLUS your voucher. If you can't afford it now, you wouldn't be able to afford it later -- and your taxes would increase to pay for the vouchers.

In NYS every child is expected to take state tests. Three years ago I had a girl who had been adopted from an orphanage in Russia. She was 12 y/o and had spent most of her life with toddlers and babies. She came to the US in August and started school with me in September. NYS required that she take the NYS Math Assessment in May. Oh, they were very generous and offered it in Russian, however, this child never learned to read Russian, only speak it. The only exam they gave her an exemption for was the English Language Arts Assessment for the first year she was in the country. Isn't that so great of NYS! Special Education is a joke here in NY. Oh, yes, extended time, separate location, scribe, test read, oh so generous!

I am glad to hear the Special Education is working in your school district, however, that is certainly not the case everywhere.

 

[DawnM]

The public school's definition of least restrictive and what he needs are two very different things. Academics is not the only criteria, although they seem to think it is.

I am well aware of how the system works and it doesn't always work in the best interest of the child.

Dawn

It's more than the idea -- it's the law. How many times have you heard the words "least restrictive environment"? If the student can make it in a mainstream class, he has to be placed in one. If he can't quite do that, but can make it if he's in four mainstream classes with two special classes, he has to do that. He has to be placed in a situation that is as close to that of an average student as he can possibly manage. He must be placed in the situation that, for him, is least restrictive.This isn't what I see at the high school level.

.

 

[twinboysmom]

The first thing you need to do is apply for the McKay scholarship, that way you have it in case you need it. Talk to the private school and find out how much the McKay will cover. I know here in Pensacola there is a private school that uses McKay for 100% and doesn't charge the families any extra, however they do have to provide transportation for their child.

My long term plan is to keep my son in public school as long as possible (entering 3rd grade), but to pull him out and have him do virtual school if and when the time comes, and not full time virtual, but homeschool virtual. This would mean he would graduate with a homeschool diploma. I have already spoken with Pensacola State College re my older daughter, and they accept a homeschool diploma and have the child take an entrance exam for placement. No FCAT, no SAT, just placement test. If he would test low in a subject
(math?) he would begin college in remedial math, but he wouldn't be turned away.

So far we have been very happy with the school system. I just had his
transition IEP to intermediate school. I was expecting a fight, and walked away shocked. Not only was there no fight involved, his placement is better than I ever could have asked for. We have been hoping to move to central
Florida, but because things are going so well here its my major hesitation in moving!

As for going into debt...since our son was 18 months old and we started
therapy, 4x a week driving into town for speech therapy, OT, play therapy, music therapy....its been about making choices. To only work part time, to stay in a smaller house, to drive older cars. It is what it is, and I don't regret it a bit.

Your post was very informative for me. I will be on the destin area for the summer with my twins attending therapy. They have been ruled out for autism but have speech delay and some minor general motor delays and we also have been logging in the miles for therapy (and lots of out of pocket money to pay for it). Early intervention was a complete failure for us. The destin area is one area that we have considered relocating but I had not heard good things about the school systems for children with special needs (although fingers crossed once we get to tlking more they will be caught up).

Jodi, I would most certainly would go into debt for the program that I felt my boys need (and we are). I have often said I would live in a teepee and I certainly mean it. Our schools don't do a very good job of educating our children without special needs and my faith that they can properly educate a special needs child is non existent. I get what you are saying and if you feel like this program will offer your child what he or she needs, then by all means, do it. I would hate to regret my decision not to later. Good luck!

 

[pilesoflaundry]

What about a private tutor and an aide? That has to be cheaper than the private school and I am hesitant about a school claiming a 100% success rate.

 

[pintamino]

Vouchers would be set at a per child level - and it really wouldn't be sufficient to get a child a GOOD private school education. A special needs kid would need more money than a voucher would provide. Either vouchers would destroy special education, or they wouldn't affect it at all because the current programs would still exist.

A voucher paying for a chunk of a private school education would be more beneficial than not doing anything, wouldn't it? This isn't a black or white scenario. I think anything that encourages parents to take an active role in their child's education is a good idea, and that the system as a whole would benefit from the competition. Wouldn't enabling more people to take their kids out of the system by paying part of tuition force public schools to become more competitive?

Plus private schools have the right not to accept special needs kids. How would a voucher help anyone if the school will not let him in?

Well, this is a problem with or without the voucher system - and I'd be hesitant of any school claiming 100% graduation rate anyway. They'd have to either cherry pick the best "candidates" in that situation, or adjust the curriculum to make sure everybody graduates - even if it's without anything resembling a high school education.

Yeah, too many people think, "If we had vouchers, I could send my kid to such-and-such expensive school." The reality is that if that school costs 20K right now, it would become 18K PLUS your voucher. If you can't afford it now, you wouldn't be able to afford it later -- and your taxes would increase to pay for the vouchers.

Well, I think the misconception part is true. Whether or not the schools would jack up tuition remains to be seen - I'd like to see you cite your sources on that one. The voucher system increases competitiveness around the whole education system. That's part of why it has seen past success in my area (D.C.)

 

[jodifla]

Plus private schools have the right not to accept special needs kids. How would a voucher help anyone if the school will not let him in?

OP, you said that this private school is very picky about who they allow in and only allow in 20 students. Are you sure they will accept your child since he has an IEP? We've looked in to private schools for my son, and once they hear the A word (autism) they tell me flat out he would not be welcome in their school. Well, one school said they would grudgingly let him in, but the first time he screwed up he was out. Not exactly a welcoming environment. That's one plus to public school - I've never run in to that attitude. They have to take him.

The senior class was 20 kids. It's all grades, so they take in dozens of kids every year, depending on the availability in each grade. Middle school has about 60 kids in it.

And this is a school specifically designed for kids with IEPS. EVERYONE has one. The parents started the school 20 plus years ago when the schools weren't meeting the kids' needs.