Would want to be warned BEFORE this book is read to your 2nd grade child?

[momof2inPA]

Originally Posted by momof2inPA
A parent has a right to instill her values in her child, even they are not the opinions of the majority.


How does a book like this instill the value? You are the parent and hopefully you would be the one to instill values in your child. The schools are not instilling values but presenting a curriculum that is based on the realities of today. By the secnd grade a large number of children would have been exposed to different family structures anyway. There are a lot of them; single parent, traditional, gay parents, foster children, adopted children, raised by other family members.

There isn't a large percentage of the population that feels adoption, fostering, and traditional marriage are immoral. You can't force others to believe the way you do. Like it or not, fundamental Christian children go to school. I wouldn't want my kids to be read a book about a boy who decides he doesn't like boys' clothes and will only dress as a girl, either, or one about a boy who wants to grow breasts like mommy and become a girl. These topics aren't appropriate for elementary students, although inculcating the idea that it's ok to be a transvestite or have a sex change might make some adult transvestites and transexuals feel more accepted or it might make some kids accept that it's ok to feel that way. These aren't the right subjects for kids. Schools should be in the business of teaching academics, not focusing on what teachers and administrators feel is the "right" socialization. Schools should steer clear of hot button issues-- and politics.

 

[Charade]

Well, people like me are, more often than not, the ones setting policy (at least in such places as schools.) The anti-gay majority (though their ranks are thinning year after year) are doing most of their whining in the break room at Wal-Mart or under a car at Quik-Lube.

Now that *IS* an insult. Nice work.

 

[lw49033]

There isn't a large percentage of the population that feels adoption, fostering, and traditional marriage are immoral. You can't force others to believe the way you do. Like it or not, fundamental Christian children go to school.

Let them go to their own schools, or be homeschooled. Granted, that is the academic equivalent of inbreeding, but at least they won't have to be around us awful queer-lovers!

 

[JennyMominRI]

There isn't a large percentage of the population that feels adoption, fostering, and traditional marriage are immoral. You can't force others to believe the way you do. Like it or not, fundamental Christian children go to school. I wouldn't want my kids to be read a book about a boy who decides he doesn't like boys' clothes and will only dress as a girl, either, or one about a boy who wants to grow breasts like mommy and become a girl. These topics aren't appropriate for elementary students, although inculcating the idea that it's ok to be a transvestite or have a sex change might make some adult transvestites and transexuals feel more accepted or it might make some kids accept that it's ok to feel that way. These aren't the right subjects for kids. Schools should be in the business of teaching academics, not focusing on what teachers and administrators feel is the "right" socialization. Schools should steer clear of hot button issues-- and politics.

You know I'm torn,because I agree with your premise.. I'd like to teach my children my values at home. I'd rather they did not learn them at school..Then again,subconsciously they are being taught about heterosexuality at school all the time, every single time a book shows a traditional family or every time they read a fairy tale about a princess falling for a prince. Or every time a teacher mentions her spouse.
I'm not sure how I feel. I have no problem with my children reading that book, and yet I'm not sure I feel if it's crossing the line.

 

[momof2inPA]

Let them go to their own schools, or be homeschooled. Granted, that is the academic equivalent of inbreeding, but at least they won't have to be around us awful queer-lovers!

They pay for the schools, just like you do. If voting record is any indication, in Ohio they pay more taxes than gay supporters, so, one could argue they have more of a right to a public education than your children.

Hey, I don't want elementary schools discussing controversial subjects, period--not homosexuality, not abortion, not pre-marital pregnancy, not miscarriages. I don't want them to encourage kids to join the military or talk about Iraq like it's a just war..

 

[MouseWorshipin]

Well, people like me are, more often than not, the ones setting policy (at least in such places as schools.) The anti-gay majority (though their ranks are thinning year after year) are doing most of their whining in the break room at Wal-Mart or under a car at Quik-Lube.

Exactly where are intellectuals working in Public School Systems?

And if they are so very, very bright, why aren't they able to figure out how to educate children (which is what schools are supposed to be doing)?

I've got no problem with nice people (gay or not). I wouldn't care a bit about them reading that book to my kids. I understand that others might not like it, so I'm all for a "heads up" to the parents.

But this slam on mechanics is offensive. Mechanics - even the ones who aren't all that smart - accomplish their job. They fix the car. So, they are, IMHO, one step up from School Administrators.

 

[shortbun]

I don't know why it's insulting to suggest that not everybody is an intellectual. If everybody has an equal claim to the title "intellectual", what's the point of the word?

Yes, and I know many people who would not WANT to be considered an "intellectual." What's the big deal? Some people think "intellectual" is an insult. Also, "intellectual" is a term that could be applied at many different levels depending on where one stands in the class system that is definitely raging in our country. Poverty class, undereducated people might think of a strictly middle class, average educated person as an intellectual from the standpoint of thought process and what matters. Where middle class folks might consider themselves as "intellectuals" by choice and some intellectuals might not feel they fall into that category at all, nor want to. So what exactly did you mean by saying that saying someone was NOT an intellectual was an insult? You must think it's a good thing or that one MUST be an intellectual to have worth, eh? hmmmmm Let me put aside my new Vidal novel, roll up the sleeves to my smoking jacket and ponder that for a while.

 

[shortbun]

Exactly where are intellectuals working in Public School Systems?

And if they are so very, very bright, why aren't they able to figure out how to educate children (which is what schools are supposed to be doing)?

I've got no problem with nice people (gay or not). I wouldn't care a bit about them reading that book to my kids. I understand that others might not like it, so I'm all for a "heads up" to the parents.

But this slam on mechanics is offensive. Mechanics - even the ones who aren't all that smart - accomplish their job. They fix the car. So, they are, IMHO, one step up from School Administrators.

I like this!!!

 

[momof2inPA]

You know I'm torn,because I agree with your premise.. I'd like to teach my children my values at home. I'd rather they did not learn them at school..Then again,subconsciously they are being taught about heterosexuality at school all the time, every single time a book shows a traditional family or every time they read a fairy tale about a princess falling for a prince. Or every time a teacher mentions her spouse.
I'm not sure how I feel. I have no problem with my children reading that book, and yet I'm not sure I feel if it's crossing the line.

I see that point, as well, but I think we should accept that a large percentage of the population feels that homosexuality is immoral--even against their religion. For example, if the Boston inner city has as many hispanics as most inner cities, most of them are Catholic. Many are even devout Catholics. If this book were read to their children, they might object to its subject matter but be afraid or unable to voice their concerns. As lw___ said, they are busy working at Walmart and changing oil. I don't think it's right to impose your beliefs on their kids just because you can.

People who accept homosexuality can read this book and all the same sex marriage books they want to their kids-- at home. Families with children in public schools should be notified about and be able to remove their kids from what they find to be objectionable material. If you don't let them, you are opening yourself up to a great argument for private school vouchers.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I see that point, as well, but I think we should accept that a large percentage of the population feels that homosexuality is immoral--even against their religion. For example, if the Boston inner city has as many hispanics as most inner cities, most of them are Catholic. Many are even devout Catholics. If this book were read to their children, they might object to its subject matter but be afraid or unable to voice their concerns. As lw___ said, they are busy working at Walmart and changing oil. I don't think it's right to impose your beliefs on their kids just because you can.

.

I know many many devout Catholics that are just fine with homosexuality and gay marriage.. I live in the state of the US(RI) which has the highest population of Catholics per capita and yet they tend to be very liberal and very democratic..My mother is a devout catholic who supports gay marriage. She doesn't believe her religions teachings should be supported in laws. She would have had no qualms with me being read that book in school.. Out of all of the Catholics in my family,the only one that I think might have objected is my brother.

 

[JennyMominRI]

One thing that just struck me is how I've seen it stated that *many or most* people think homosexuality is immoral and yet,IRL I can't think of anyone I know who has issues with homosexuals or homosexuality.. Maybe it's the people I hang with and the fact that I have spent my adult life in California and Rhode Island , and because my religion is generally welcoming and supportive of homosexuals

 

[MouseWorshipin]

I see that point, as well, but I think we should accept that a large percentage of the population feels that homosexuality is immoral--even against their religion. For example, if the Boston inner city has as many hispanics as most inner cities, most of them are Catholic. Many are even devout Catholics. If this book were read to their children, they might object to its subject matter but be afraid or unable to voice their concerns. As lw___ said, they are busy working at Walmart and changing oil. I don't think it's right to impose your beliefs on their kids just because you can.

People who accept homosexuality can read this book and all the same sex marriage books they want to their kids-- at home. Families with children in public schools should be notified about and be able to remove their kids from what they find to be objectionable material. If you don't let them, you are opening yourself up to a great argument for private school vouchers.

The Catholic religion does NOT teach that homosexuality is a sin - quite the contrary. There are even groups for gay Catholics within the church - and not designed to try to get them to hop the fence. Just like there are groups for single people, young people, etc.

There may be groups that find gay people offensive, but not the Catholic Church.

I say this so much I'm going to ask for a sticky.

 

[antmaril]

I would be LIVID!

 

[declansdad]

There isn't a large percentage of the population that feels adoption, fostering, and traditional marriage are immoral. You can't force others to believe the way you do. Like it or not, fundamental Christian children go to school. I wouldn't want my kids to be read a book about a boy who decides he doesn't like boys' clothes and will only dress as a girl, either, or one about a boy who wants to grow breasts like mommy and become a girl. These topics aren't appropriate for elementary students, although inculcating the idea that it's ok to be a transvestite or have a sex change might make some adult transvestites and transexuals feel more accepted or it might make some kids accept that it's ok to feel that way. These aren't the right subjects for kids. Schools should be in the business of teaching academics, not focusing on what teachers and administrators feel is the "right" socialization. Schools should steer clear of hot button issues-- and politics.

There is more to education than acedemics. Even so, to keep childrens' interest, any number of subjects can be brought into play.

 

[lw49033]

A part of the population feels Harry Potter is immoral too, but that doesn't give them the right to control the libraries, and opposition to gays does not give those people the right to control what is taught in schools, especially in a state where gay marriage is a legal fact of life.

People DO have a right to teach their own kids their values at home, absolutely. The home is sacred, IMO. You can teach your kids that slavery was a good idea, as far as I'm concerned. But when they leave the confines of one's home and go out into the larger world, sorry but the rest of us don't have an obligation to parrot it to them just because their parents agree with it.

 

[declansdad]

But this slam on mechanics is offensive. Mechanics - even the ones who aren't all that smart - accomplish their job. They fix the car. So, they are, IMHO, one step up from School Administrators.

How is this any better??

 

[FayeW]

What I object to most in this thread is the constant refrain of children being "taught" about homosexuality because this book was read. They weren't TAUGHT anything, they were read a story. That's it, that's all. It was storytime folks, nothing to see here, move along!

The mother on the news should be embarassed that as a parent, she felt she needed to be "warned". My kids say things off the cuff everyday. Sometimes you've got to think on your feet. Of course, my situation is different because my childrens' first sitter was homosexual. She lived with her partner, and they, along with several other children, went to her home based child care center. My children were 3 & 5 at the time, and went to her house for about 2 years. NEVER ONCE did either of them ever comment on their lifestyle, or why they lived together instead of having husbands or children of their own.We have discussed it very casually a couple of times in the 5 years since they stopped going there (we moved out of the neighborhood), but we never made an issue of their orientation one way or the other, and neither did our children.

 

[momof2inPA]

I know many many devout Catholics that are just fine with homosexuality and gay marriage.. I live in the state of the US(RI) which has the highest population of Catholics per capita and yet they tend to be very liberal and very democratic..My mother is a devout catholic who supports gay marriage. She doesn't believe her religions teachings should be supported in laws. She would have had no qualms with me being read that book in school.. Out of all of the Catholics in my family,the only one that I think might have objected is my brother.

Hispanic Catholics, especially recent immigrants, tend to be more conservative. I'm a Catholic who doesn't have a problem with gays, but the Church teaches that homosexual sex (actually pre-marital sex) is not ok and the Pope has spoken against gay marriage-- it isn't recognized by the Church. To pretend that the Catholic Church or all Catholics support homosexuality is disingenuous. What is Orthodox Judaism's position on gays and gay marriage?

 

[momof2inPA]

What I object to most in this thread is the constant refrain of children being "taught" about homosexuality because this book was read. They weren't TAUGHT anything, they were read a story. That's it, that's all. It was storytime folks, nothing to see here, move along!

No one said they were teaching the kids how to be gay, just that the school introduced the subject. Taught, introduced the subject, don't see the difference. If the teacher wasn't "teaching" when she/he was reading, she/he had no business reading the book in school, where teaching is supposed to be taking place.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

You know what is scaring me here is that when a few posters feel their viewpoint is threatened, they resort to insult. Lw, a newer poster from my own Buckeye state, especially. To reiterate what was already posted, not all Christians are anti-gay. Can we all agree on that and stop the bashing? That's not what the OP's original point was about.
BTW I am a conservative Christian who is fully supportive of the gays I know or have known, relatives and students among them. But when someone starts referring to my religion as "goat herders" and inferring that we all work at wal-mart or quick-lube, it is just as small-minded and inflammatory. I have a M.Ed. What do you have, lw? And what glorious, intellectual job do you grace us with?
Robin M.