Worried about using the Galloway Training schedule to run the half

StacyStrong

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2018
Havent seen this one anywhere, but with kids I think the 2 weekdays and one long run on the weekend is the one that will require the least "edits"


I will give this a try. I have to admit, the rational part of my mind really doesnt believe that if I practice at a 15:10 pace I will all the sudden be able to run 2 and a half minutes faster in the race. That said, I am a total running noob and am willing to put my faith in people who are not.
Giiiiiiiiiirl, preach. But I'm on my second training plan with him. My easy runs are supposed to be even slower than that (I'm slow!), but I've been able to hit faster paces when needed and run 2 min/mile faster in a race with very severe weather.

Additionally, looking at historical data, my heart rate has improved significantly over the course of a year. This time last year, a run at the same distance and time had a heart rate over 20bpm higher!

I, too, was a skeptic.
 

Sleepless Knight

Jedi Knight Seeking His Jedi Princess
Joined
May 15, 2008
I will give this a try. I have to admit, the rational part of my mind really doesnt believe that if I practice at a 15:10 pace I will all the sudden be able to run 2 and a half minutes faster in the race. That said, I am a total running noob and am willing to put my faith in people who are not.
I felt the same way. I had some conception in my brain that I had to run 5 or 6 days a week to finish a half marathon. Galloway's plans showed me that it is possible.
My @DopeyBadger plan was 4 days a week, MWFSa, Compared to Galloway, I ran more miles during the week and fewer for the weekend long run. Since I ran on Fridays, my longer run on Saturday gave me the additional pleasure? of running on tired legs.
He created a 5 day a week plan for me, MT,Th,F,Sa and I experienced something similar. I also found that I recovered more quickly from the long runs than I did before because I was finally and truly training easy even on the long runs. My confidence in the plan really took off when he mentioned that I was running a higher volume than the other plan I had been looking at.
Because a lot of people truly don't know what true easy pace feels like. They think they're going easy, but they can go far far easier.
This was very much me. I defined walk breaks as running slower or around 16 minutes per mile. This wound up causing all sorts of problems when I tried to truly increase my speed because I was not giving myself an opportunity to recover. In my case, my true walk breaks are around 17:30 per mile pace, but they make a world of difference in freshness during the race and soreness after the race.
Most everyone finds when they switch to train slow to race fast that training itself is easier, more enjoyable, on race day they're faster, and they recover quicker post-race.
Also me. I used to dread long runs because of the time it took me days to recover from them. Once I started training slow, my recovery improved and I actually began to enjoy the training. Before, training was the thing I had to put up with in order to have the fun of a runDisney race weekend. Now it helps me to enjoy the race experience even more because I'm not as exhausted at the finish. Even including my 6:58ish marathon including a lot of photo stops with lines both short and long.
 

bumbershoot

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
He never has her run the full distance. He says you save that final bit for race day
And mentally for me that’s silly. It only works for the first time ever at that distance. Every other time I do that distance after, I’ve already done the distance and I know it.

I *know* can do a half. I’ve done it many times. I’ve done it heinously sick. I’ve done it when hot. When cold. With belly problems. With cold cold rain the entire way (splash and dash aka 2014 wine and dine). With straight-walkers literally forming a chain so run-walkers or runners couldn’t get past unless willing to go on the grass bank or into traffic (cone alley princess 2018) causing me to lose my mojo and walk 4 of the last 6 miles.

The knowledge that I can do it has been the same since I did 14 in training, and definitely after the first half event (January marathon weekend 2014 while heinously sick).

All I leave for race day is the fact that I haven’t been at that race day on that day yet. It works. (Even better when i do the training)

Mental confidence is an overlooked part of success in running however you want to define that. And you can give yourself a mental boost by putting in the training. I also feel that putting in the training can help you recover quicker after the race.
I agree completely.

More "survive the training" rather than "thrive because of the training" because the body isn't getting the necessary stimulus to handle the original workouts scheduled.
I feel like you’ve been watching my training over the years. :teeth::teeth:

When one gets in a pattern of training too fast for their current fitness level it usually ends up in a stagnation or stalling of improvement.
Ok now I know you’ve been watching me. :scared::rolleyes1:)


Galloway it's not a "walk with purpose" but an easy walk like a stroll between intervals.
Something that is hard to do! A convo with JG at an expo helped me finally get that. Run faster, walk slower. Repeat. Given that my normal “run” is almost the same pace as my brisk walk (something my teen often comments on), it’s hard to slow down more, but if I do then I can do the run intervals a teensy bit faster *and* I feel so much better at the end.



I was already moving that direction, but for my princess training (starting a little early to allow for life) I think I’m going to slow myself down purposely thanks to this thread. I’m already so slow it’ll be hard, and I get so bored, but we’ll see what happens!
 
  • DopeyBadger

    Imagathoner
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2015
    I feel like you’ve been watching my training over the years. :teeth::teeth:
    Ok now I know you’ve been watching me. :scared::rolleyes1:)
    giphy.gif

    I was already moving that direction, but for my princess training (starting a little early to allow for life) I think I’m going to slow myself down purposely thanks to this thread. I’m already so slow it’ll be hard, and I get so bored, but we’ll see what happens!
    I think that's a good choice. Do you know what your current fitness M Tempo pace is, so that you have a good methodology to get to +2 min on the easy days? And how fast is your "comfortable stroll" walking pace?

    I think one way you can make the training more exciting is more diversification of your training paces. Make the easy days really easy, and make the hard days really hard. It's one way to make things more interesting and research shows is the best methodology for improving your overall fitness over the long term. And that's true for the 6 hr marathon runner and the 3 hr marathon runner.
     

    UK_Disney_Dopey_Hopeful

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jun 9, 2019
    @DopeyBadger do you charge for personal training programs to be drawn up and if so, how much please? im very interested in the galloway method as i have never ran a full marathon (regular half marathon runner) so i am a little worried about how to pace a full marathon and a very generic run/walk 90/30 split is very "open". i would prefer somebody to take a look at my times and be able to suggest what i need to train to get me through 26.2 miles.

    My own current thoughts on marathon day would be to complete probably the first 16km (10 miles) without a walk break as i feel comfortable doing this distance, but would this just drain me too much for latter stages of the 26.2 miles?.... complete novice at marathon distance so any advice would be vert much appreciated!.

    If it helps my HM times are between 1:50 - 1:55 (Although trying to get a PB of below 1:44 for Corral purposes), my 10km is around 48-50 miins and 5K around 24min. Currently none of my training is walk/run, so its all a bit alien to me
     

    camaker

    Anything worth doing is worth overdoing
    Joined
    May 8, 2015
    @DopeyBadger do you charge for personal training programs to be drawn up and if so, how much please? im very interested in the galloway method as i have never ran a full marathon (regular half marathon runner) so i am a little worried about how to pace a full marathon and a very generic run/walk 90/30 split is very "open". i would prefer somebody to take a look at my times and be able to suggest what i need to train to get me through 26.2 miles.

    My own current thoughts on marathon day would be to complete probably the first 16km (10 miles) without a walk break as i feel comfortable doing this distance, but would this just drain me too much for latter stages of the 26.2 miles?.... complete novice at marathon distance so any advice would be vert much appreciated!.

    If it helps my HM times are between 1:50 - 1:55 (Although trying to get a PB of below 1:44 for Corral purposes), my 10km is around 48-50 miins and 5K around 24min. Currently none of my training is walk/run, so its all a bit alien to me
    Out of curiosity, if you’re already continuously running 10k and half marathons at those paces, why are you looking to switch to Galloway rather than just following a marathon training program with continuous running? With the base you have, it seems like it would be easier to extend your fitness using the technique you’re currently accomplished in rather than trying to incorporate a new style of running into the mix while training for the marathon.
     

    DopeyBadger

    Imagathoner
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2015
    @DopeyBadger do you charge for personal training programs to be drawn up and if so, how much please? im very interested in the galloway method as i have never ran a full marathon (regular half marathon runner) so i am a little worried about how to pace a full marathon and a very generic run/walk 90/30 split is very "open". i would prefer somebody to take a look at my times and be able to suggest what i need to train to get me through 26.2 miles.

    My own current thoughts on marathon day would be to complete probably the first 16km (10 miles) without a walk break as i feel comfortable doing this distance, but would this just drain me too much for latter stages of the 26.2 miles?.... complete novice at marathon distance so any advice would be vert much appreciated!.

    If it helps my HM times are between 1:50 - 1:55 (Although trying to get a PB of below 1:44 for Corral purposes), my 10km is around 48-50 miins and 5K around 24min. Currently none of my training is walk/run, so its all a bit alien to me
    I'd say most of your recent race performances are all around each other (1:50 HM, 48 min 10k, and 24 min 5k).

    Screen Shot 2019-10-06 at 7.13.24 PM.png

    For someone with fitness like this, you'd be looking at training paces like these:

    Continuous:
    Screen Shot 2019-10-06 at 7.14.30 PM.png

    For continuous, regardless of what training plan you choose almost every one of the common ones is going to have a predominately easy pacing strategy for training runs. Which means about 80% of training is at a 9:32 min/mile or slower. Usually your weekly/monthly average pace should be around a 9:48 min/mile if you're consistently training slow enough. These paces are based on similar conditions to your race performances. So if races were ideal, and training day is a million degrees, then you'd want to train even slower than these.

    Run/walk
    Screen Shot 2019-10-06 at 7.14.41 PM.png

    Using a generic 18 min/mile walking pace, these would be my suggested run/walk paces.

    Although I agree with @camaker, I'd probably try running at appropriate continuous paces (as seen above) first and see whether your body can tolerate that training. If you find that your body doesn't tolerate the continuous training, then I'd consider using run/walk. But as long as you're healthy and don't have another reason for incorporating run/walk, then I think you'd be fine to at least first attempt continuous marathon training.

    Although trying to get a PB of below 1:44 for Corral purposes
    This performance is outside the rest. I'd say you'd want to be able to run a 22 min 5k or 47 min 10k before I'd reach for the 1:44 HM. If you're looking to make gains towards the 1:44 and since your other times are nearly all race equivalent (5k, 10k, and HM), then I think the focus of your current training should be on speed work. From the continuous pacing above, I think you should be focusing workouts at 1 mile, 3k, and Threshold. That will have a higher likelihood of increasing your VO2max and put your legs in a position to be able to pull off the 1:44 at a later time. If you're looking for a generic training plan, I'd seek out the Jack Daniels "Running Formula" 3rd edition 5k/10k training plan.

    so i am a little worried about how to pace a full marathon
    At the end of the day, pacing the marathon comes down to having ideal training and then knowing your race conditions/course. Knowing the effect of weather, the course hills, and ultimately what your goal is for the race. The closer you get to max marathon performance the harder it gets to pace it correctly. The slower you go from max, the lesser the risk of blowing up. But under ideal conditions, with a static race, I usually recommend a 1.5-2% negative split where you run the first half just slightly slower than what you aim to run the average pace.
     
  • UK_Disney_Dopey_Hopeful

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jun 9, 2019
    Out of curiosity, if you’re already continuously running 10k and half marathons at those paces, why are you looking to switch to Galloway rather than just following a marathon training program with continuous running? With the base you have, it seems like it would be easier to extend your fitness using the technique you’re currently accomplished in rather than trying to incorporate a new style of running into the mix while training for the marathon.
    Hi Camaker, The reason im using Galloway (or intend to for 2021) is because ive never ran anything more than HM and never trained for anything more. I have no training plans (Other than Galloway) and when i train for my 10k/10 miler/HM races its purely me saying to myself "Better do hills for 20 minutes today" or "Better do a long run today" o plan, just kinda winging it..... so im hoping Galloway will get me through what i need to do to hit the dopey "Jackpot"!.

    Ive just seen @DopeyBadger has set a few examples and suggestions for me so im going to go away and have a look at these. Its worth pointing out though, i dont finish these HM in 1:50 and feel "Fresh" and ready for more running.... im knackered and ready for a nice rest !!!!.... thats why i think run/walk would be better for me.... i just dont think i could ever run 26.2 miles consistently
     

    UK_Disney_Dopey_Hopeful

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jun 9, 2019
    @DopeyBadger Thank you ever so much for all that break down and advice. I very much appreciate that. Im not convinced i could run continuously for 26 miles.... hence the run/walk idea, but im happy to give it a go and then i guess if it doesnt work i have run/walk to revert too
     

    camaker

    Anything worth doing is worth overdoing
    Joined
    May 8, 2015
    Hi Camaker, The reason im using Galloway (or intend to for 2021) is because ive never ran anything more than HM and never trained for anything more. I have no training plans (Other than Galloway) and when i train for my 10k/10 miler/HM races its purely me saying to myself "Better do hills for 20 minutes today" or "Better do a long run today" o plan, just kinda winging it..... so im hoping Galloway will get me through what i need to do to hit the dopey "Jackpot"!.

    Ive just seen @DopeyBadger has set a few examples and suggestions for me so im going to go away and have a look at these. Its worth pointing out though, i dont finish these HM in 1:50 and feel "Fresh" and ready for more running.... im knackered and ready for a nice rest !!!!.... thats why i think run/walk would be better for me.... i just dont think i could ever run 26.2 miles consistently
    Regardless of how you’ve gotten there, your fitness level has you capable of running those 1:50 half marathons. I think you’ve got a fundamental misconception, though, about what you’ll need to do to run a marathon. Nobody races a half marathon to the best of their ability and finishes saying “I could go for twice more right now”. If they can do that, they didn’t really race to their capacity. Of course you can’t run double the distance at that pace at that point, you’re trained for a half marathon, not a marathon. It’s the same trap people fall into early to mid-way in marathon training plans. They’re out on a tough tempo or long training run and tell themselves “there’s no way I can do this for 26 miles!” Your fitness just isn’t there yet.

    If you want to try out Galloway to see if you like the style, go for it. It’s a great program. But don’t do it because it’s the only way you think you’ll be able to do the marathon or Dopey. If you commit to a proven marathon training plan, I’d bet quite a bit that you’ll surprise yourself with what you achieve.
     

    DopeyBadger

    Imagathoner
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2015
    @DopeyBadger Thank you ever so much for all that break down and advice. I very much appreciate that. Im not convinced i could run continuously for 26 miles.... hence the run/walk idea, but im happy to give it a go and then i guess if it doesnt work i have run/walk to revert too
    Agree with @camaker, that whatever distance you're racing, if you're racing to capacity you won't feel like you can do more at the end. When I race a 5k I couldn't do 23.1 more miles. But that doesn't mean I couldn't run a marathon or need to switch styles. It just means I ran a good hard 5k.
     
  • Dopey 2020

    Counting down to 48.6
    Joined
    Apr 2, 2019
    I'd say most of your recent race performances are all around each other (1:50 HM, 48 min 10k, and 24 min 5k).

    View attachment 442012

    For someone with fitness like this, you'd be looking at training paces like these:

    Continuous:
    View attachment 442013

    For continuous, regardless of what training plan you choose almost every one of the common ones is going to have a predominately easy pacing strategy for training runs. Which means about 80% of training is at a 9:32 min/mile or slower. Usually your weekly/monthly average pace should be around a 9:48 min/mile if you're consistently training slow enough. These paces are based on similar conditions to your race performances. So if races were ideal, and training day is a million degrees, then you'd want to train even slower than these.

    Run/walk
    View attachment 442014

    Using a generic 18 min/mile walking pace, these would be my suggested run/walk paces.

    Although I agree with @camaker, I'd probably try running at appropriate continuous paces (as seen above) first and see whether your body can tolerate that training. If you find that your body doesn't tolerate the continuous training, then I'd consider using run/walk. But as long as you're healthy and don't have another reason for incorporating run/walk, then I think you'd be fine to at least first attempt continuous marathon training.



    This performance is outside the rest. I'd say you'd want to be able to run a 22 min 5k or 47 min 10k before I'd reach for the 1:44 HM. If you're looking to make gains towards the 1:44 and since your other times are nearly all race equivalent (5k, 10k, and HM), then I think the focus of your current training should be on speed work. From the continuous pacing above, I think you should be focusing workouts at 1 mile, 3k, and Threshold. That will have a higher likelihood of increasing your VO2max and put your legs in a position to be able to pull off the 1:44 at a later time. If you're looking for a generic training plan, I'd seek out the Jack Daniels "Running Formula" 3rd edition 5k/10k training plan.



    At the end of the day, pacing the marathon comes down to having ideal training and then knowing your race conditions/course. Knowing the effect of weather, the course hills, and ultimately what your goal is for the race. The closer you get to max marathon performance the harder it gets to pace it correctly. The slower you go from max, the lesser the risk of blowing up. But under ideal conditions, with a static race, I usually recommend a 1.5-2% negative split where you run the first half just slightly slower than what you aim to run the average pace.

    Interesting to find this thread. I ran with the pacers at SW Rival run to my first sub 2 half (1:59:11) and then got some great info/numbers from you, @DopeyBadger
    Since then I ran three days a week to maintain and then used Galloways plan to start training for Dopey. However I changed from long runs every third week to every other and I am running continuously for them all, but at slower paces(~12 min/mile). Then on my hard day(every Tues)I push for a 4 mile interval run as fast as I can for 1/4 mile then recover for 1/4 mile. I love math and like to compare your numbers and his and any other info I can get as I try to figure out my best way to improve.
    Fast forward to this past weekend at W&D, not supposed to be my A race with Dopey coming up, but feeling really good coming off a two week taper from a b2b 7/17 mile run combined with great weather got me thinking. What if I treated the 10k as a slow warm up and the half as a really long interval run? I had my sights set on making A corral for future races and started plugging in numbers on a walk run calculator. 17 min/mile walk for 30 sec and 2:30 run seemed like something I could try although that meant ~7:30/ mile. My best magic mile was 6:37 and my best 5k 24:02 so mathematically possible but without a lot of fast miles under my belt I wasn’t sure.
    Long story short, I crushed it with 1:49:23 a near 10 min PR!
    My question after all this, is If I’m using run walk run in long races should I go back to that in training? I like that continuously running seems to be increasing my endurance but maybe it’s something else. Or does it really not make much difference? Either way I need to look at maybe changing some paces as I start Dopey training back up.
     

    DopeyBadger

    Imagathoner
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2015
    My question after all this, is If I’m using run walk run in long races should I go back to that in training? I like that continuously running seems to be increasing my endurance but maybe it’s something else. Or does it really not make much difference? Either way I need to look at maybe changing some paces as I start Dopey training back up.
    First off, congrats on the 10 min PR to a 1:49. That's a tremendous improvement and shows whatever you're doing is working. Let's start at the end and sort of work backwards a bit.

    A 1:49:23 HM suggests the following for race equivalency:

    Screen Shot 2019-11-06 at 12.51.59 PM.png

    So a 6:47 mile, 23:47 5k, and 49:35 10k. Your best magic mile was a 6:37 and 5k of 24:02. Both of those times would line up well with your recent HM of a 1:49:23. So depending on when the MM and 5k occurred, we would have predicted this performance from the outset. So whether the run/walk made it happen or whether it was destined to happen either way is debatable.

    Since all of these line up closely to each other, then the pace scheme would be something like the following:

    Screen Shot 2019-11-06 at 12.55.07 PM.png

    Screen Shot 2019-11-06 at 12.55.25 PM.png

    For the HM run/walk pacing, I would have predicted something like a 2:50/30s at 7:39/17:00. So pretty close to where your other information came from (around 7:30 for 150 seconds). The 7:39 pace represents 5k pace. So at about 2:50 of holding that pace is just a bit over 1/3 mile at 5k pace with 30 sec rest breaks intermittently.

    More than anything, I think the reason you've likely seen tremendous improvement in the last few months is that your overall training load is probably higher than before, and that you've slowed down a good bit on the large majority of that training. More training combined with a slower (or appropriate) pace yields great return on investment. Primarily because your body can follow the pathway of "Stimulus - > Recovery - > Adaptation". Whereas, if you train too much or train too fast, you're likely stuck in "Stimulus -> Recovery" and never get to the adaptation part of the cycle. You're always recovering from one workout to the next instead of allowing the body to adapt and get stronger/faster.

    So the question comes back to, can I use continuous pacing in training and then use run/walk in racing? In this case, I'd say if it isn't broke don't fix it. It seemed to work this past time, so it's possible it very well could again. But the tried and true method is to practice what you plan to use on race day. So if you plan to run/walk races, then it's probably best to train using run/walk (and vice versa with continuous training as well).

    Continuous pacing and using run/walk are different but similar. The run/walk methodology is based on using faster paces with intermittent breaks much like a continuous runner does speed work. So as an example, the HM Tempo intervals above were 2:50/30 at 7:39/17:00 for an average pace of 8:21. A continuous runner might also do a 0.33 mile run at 5k pace with 30-60 second breaks as a training run. Albeit it's fairly unlikely the continuous runner would do 13.11 miles of that in a single training run. But needless to say, you can see how they're related. Run/walk is really just speed work in a nutshell. I think where the crutch of whether continuous or run/walk is the right methodology for an individual person may come down to their lactate threshold, and maybe even more importantly their running economy. The ability to maintain a certain pace slower than LT while not causing the theoretical pace of LT to shift. Those with better running economy will see their "LT pace" maintain at a set pace for longer and longer into a run. Whereas, a runner with a slightly lesser running economy might see their "LT pace" shift sooner. Thus succumbing to fatigue sooner. Using the run/walk method is one attempt at keeping the fatigue away for longer durations.

    In the past I've worked with a few runners on the fence about whether one methodology or the other was best for them. In those cases, I do "mixed training plans". Where I schedule similar types of training runs both using run/walk in one week and then continuous in the next. Over the course of several weeks, the runner decides for themselves which seems more "sustainable". Does run/walk at 2:50/30 for HM Tempo feel easier than continuous pacing for a similar duration (say 40 min)? So it's possible you mix in both methodologies in the next few weeks and see which you prefer "at pace".

    The one word of caution I give about the Galloway plan and continuous running is that it was written with run/walk in mind. So some of the distances (or durations) might be a bit on the aggressive side for a continuous runner. Compare and contrast what Galloway has written into the plan with some other marathon training plans to get an idea as to whether you want to curb the scheduled distances a bit. In my opinion, something like "Week 25" of the Galloway Dopey plan is extremely aggressive in training (45 min + 45 min + 5 mile + 12 mile + 26 mile) if you were to do that continuous instead of the prescribed mostly "walking" as written. There's a reason Galloway specifically has written "walk" on most of those days. It's not because he thinks you "couldn't" do it as continuous or run/walk, but rather in the midst of training you probably "shouldn't". It's best to save the "race day effort" for race day itself. I personally set the cap at 150-180 min for continuous runners in a single training session and 180 min for run/walkers. The cumulative effect of the training plan is far more beneficial than any single giant training run.

    Hope that helps!
     

    Dopey 2020

    Counting down to 48.6
    Joined
    Apr 2, 2019
    It helps a bunch, and thank you. Also that 6:37 MM was just over three weeks ago, it’s when I really took notice of improvements and thought maybe this should be an A race. Now to get that sub 4 marathon...
     

    DopeyBadger

    Imagathoner
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2015
    Now to get that sub 4 marathon...
    So when it comes to race equivalency the marathon is a much trickier beast. Some background:

    Ian Williams: An Updated Race Equivalency Calculator Attempt

    Screen Shot 2019-11-06 at 2.36.06 PM.png

    The long and short of it is that most race equivalency calculators spit out a value using the following formula: M = HM x 2^1.06 or (T2 = T1 x (D2/D1)^1.06)

    That value of 1.06 is the critical component. It works for most everyone when converting most any distance from a mile to a HM. But the calculation really falls apart for most when it comes to the marathon. And that's really because most of us don't do enough training (or enough of the right training) to be able to convert our faster performances into a matching M performance. So the important takeaway from the Ian Williams paper was that the average is far slower than a 1.06 conversion.

    450721

    In actuality, only about 6% of runners in this data set (and the Vickers one as well) are actually at a conversion of 1.06. So the standard calculation is only good for about 6% of the runners (and these runners could be using a 1:30 HM or a 2:30 HM). A good converter can come from anywhere in the pace spectrum. So the real "average" is 1.15. So my chart above is a more realistic representation of what you could expect on a similar weather condition day and similar elevation grade race as the input race. So a 1:49 HM gives you about:

    6% chance to hit 3:48
    10% chance to hit 3:49
    24% chance to hit 3:54
    50% chance to hit 4:02

    Where you fall in these % chances as it relates to the marathon running population goes back to your training and how "ideal" it was.

    This is of course in a stand-alone marathon which Dopey is not. Even if you were to take the other 3 races super easy, they will still have an impact on the marathon performance. This is all of course assuming the sub-4 marathon attempt is coming in January during Dopey. In my experience of attempting to race all 4 events at Dopey, I've been able to get PR level performances at 5k and 10k. The HM is usually about 4% off from race equivalency coming off the 5k/10k and then the M is usually 8-10% coming off the three races prior.

    So these are all things to think about when making pacing decisions on the marathon as a stand-alone event or in the case of a sub-4 attempt while running Dopey.
     



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