Worried About Parents Retirement

[Abbie]

So let me ask you, if they tell you they are ok and to mind your own business (not as crappy as that but you get the idea) would you respect them?

Or better yet, what if they tell you and you don't agree with their plans what are you going to do, force them to spend the money or invest their money the way you want?

I'm not talking about incapacitated parents. I mean fully functional parents who's only crime is that they are elderly.

This is where we stand with my IL's and it makes me literally sick at heart. They have spent a lifetime bailing out my BIL financially. We finally got them to agree to sell their house this summer to get out of the terrible debt they had gotten in. They were able to settle into a lovely apartment with some savings. Now, six months later, we find they are again over $20,000 in debt because they simply cannot say no to their (alcoholic) son. They are 82 and 81. I don't know what's going to happen but I suspect they will at some point be forced to live with one of us due to poor decisions on their part. I know we don't have a say in how they spend their money, yet it WILL, without a doubt, become OUR problem before too long.

I don't know the answer. I never would have considered involving myself in my parents' financial affairs but they never had any issues. Because my dad was so good financially, mom is able to live out her final years in a luxury retirement place and I'm thankful every day that he made that happen. But my IL's will never be able to do that and it makes me sad and angry.

 

[dansamy]

I feel every families dynamics are different. My parents afforded their children every opportunity and footed the bills for those opportunities, as well. I would jump at the chance to have my mother move into my home so I could do for her a small portion of what she and my father did for all of their children.

My mother is very independent minded at age 86 and refuses to live with any of her children and has made it clear she won't do so at any point of her remaining years. She says she doesn't want to be a burden on any of her children. Having my mother live with me and letting me do for her wouldn't be a budren, it would be a blessing.

dsny1mom

And if you are able to do for them, it would indeed be a wonderful blessing. My mother has been in dire straits before financially due to periods of unemployment. During those times, I would put gas in her car or buy groceries. But I will not buy cigarettes. I will not finance a lavish lifestyle that I cannot even afford. I also purchased PVC when she needed to re-do some pipes. I never asked for any of that back. I don't foresee being able to afford to send all three of my children to college without compromising my own retirement planning, so I certainly can't afford to finance my retirement and my mother's. I'm not against helping. I'm against helping to the point of cannibalizing my own (or my children's) future.

 

[samshane]

I admit it, when the stock market really went down last year, I worried a lot about my parents. They didn't seem worried at all - so I told them it was none of my business, but I just wanted to make sure they were okay. They said yes, and I left it at that.

Six years ago they sold their large home which they owned outright and moved across country to a warmer climate into a much smaller home which they totally paid for (over 55 community) with a lot leftover - they are both fully retired and have investments, as well as social security. I don't ask much (other than that one time, but the stock market is going back up again), but they live very frugally and are doing fine - or so it seems. They are leaving on an Australia/New Zealand cruise tomorrow and have traveled to Alaska and Hawaii in the past 2 years. The only time they mention anything to me about their finances is when they leave for a trip and want me to know where their will and all their financial information is in case they don't make it back (somewhat morbid - but they do this every time). I live a several states away - so I just make a mental note of where it all is - just in case.

They are both in their late 60s (my mom will forever be "29") and are doing absolutely everything I hoped they would be able to do in their "golden years"(and I hope one day I can do the same thing!). They are extremely generous with me and my sister as well... we don't ask for anything, but they have gone above and beyond for us and I will forever appreciate it (not just financially either).

 

[dansamy]

It is all about family dynamics. DH didn't have a particulary rough childhood, however, his mother opened several credit cards in his name so he started life off $10,000 in the hole that we are still climbing out of.

Not credit cards, but phone/cell phones. I basically told those companies to FOAD since I was a minor when those contracts were fraudulently signed by my mother. Granted, it took me a while to get a decent credit score because of it, but I stuck to my guns. I wasn't paying a debt that wasn't mine.

 

[Disneyadore]

It's all well and good to say, "It's their business" . . . but what about if the parents suddenly discover -- in their old age, once they cannot realistically go back to work -- that they haven't saved enough, or that pension they'd expected isn't enough, or that the social security check isn't nearly as large as they'd thought it would be?

THEN WHAT?

Should the child who'd attempted to encourage retirement planning then shell out money -- perhaps money that they need to save for their own retirement or money that they need to spend for their children's educations -- for their parents' necessities?

Should the child who'd tried to be helpful earlier, when it was still possible to save for retirement, shove their own children together in one bedroom so the grandparents can move in once they cannot afford their own home?

Should the child really be expected to say, "Sorry, Mom and Dad. Have you thought about dumpster diving? Don't forget that I tried to convince you earlier to save!" That's not realistic.

Everything we read these days about retirement is scary. LOTS of people are not going to be prepared for their "golden years". The reality is that parents and children ARE tied together in this, and it IS the children's business if they're going to end up providing financial support for their parents one day.

You can also turn that question around.
Should parents that have very irresponsible children that threw there money out of the window on luxury, a heated swimming pool and expensive vacations tot WDW take there children and grand children back into there homes and lives?
Children that did not save for a rainy day and thought : well were young who needs a health insurance.
Parents that warned there children for years that there money bubble would burst and there CC debt would strangle them some day.

Must these parents provide financial support and take them into their homes because these children that are not capable of managing there own life now let alone ever will be able to prepare themselves for there "golden years"?

I wonder how many "children" live from there parents pockets and how many parents are depending on there children.
My guess is that the first group is far far in the majority.

 

[portocall]

Not credit cards, but phone/cell phones. I basically told those companies to FOAD since I was a minor when those contracts were fraudulently signed by my mother. Granted, it took me a while to get a decent credit score because of it, but I stuck to my guns. I wasn't paying a debt that wasn't mine.

Since he was in college he wasn't a minor. By the time the debts had gone bad (when he found out about them) he was worn out and didn't fight. I was not in his life at the time. I think that he was trying to do a good thing by paying them off and thought he was helping her. He didn't fully understand what was going on at the time. We ended up taking a loan out to pay them all off and finally finished paying on it this past summer. That was too many years of funds that could have gone into our retirement accounts that we will never get back.

You can also turn that question around.
Should parents that have very irresponsible children that threw there money out of the window on luxury, a heated swimming pool and expensive vacations tot WDW take there children and grand children back into there homes and lives?
Children that did not save for a rainy day and thought : well were young who needs a health insurance.
Parents that warned there children for years that there money bubble would burst and there CC debt would strangle them some day.

Must these parents provide financial support and take them into their homes because these children that are not capable of managing there own life now let alone ever will be able to prepare themselves for there "golden years"?

I wonder how many "children" live from there parents pockets and how many parents are depending on there children.
My guess is that the first group is far far in the majority.

Sure there are. I know I am going to get flamed for this, and to be honest, I might someday even fit into this category, however... I like to tell people, you never know you were successful as a parent until they grow up. I aim for my children to be independent, law abiding, productive citizens. I usually say it when young mothers debate of cloth or disposable diapers or breast or bottle feeding and a bigger picture is needed (my sisters both have very little ones and fall on opposite sides so it gets nasty), but it is true, and I also tell my children this often.

This doesn't change the fact that the retirement picture has greatly changed between my grandparents generation and our parents. Just the way it is. I do plan on being there for the people who gave us life, however, other than food in the belly and a roof over their heads is all I can afford to provide. They may not even get cable... I am not paying for their cell phones since I don't own one, or gambling or cigarettes. I am not bringing them on vacations (that will probably be taken to get a few days away from them in the first place and funded by the lack of cable) What truly scares me however, is I know I can't afford my fil medications. No two ways about that, and he can't go off of them so hopefully they will qualify for help in that dept.

 

[dansamy]

This doesn't change the fact that the retirement picture has greatly changed between my grandparents generation and our parents. Just the way it is. I do plan on being there for the people who gave us life, however, other than food in the belly and a roof over their heads is all I can afford to provide. They may not even get cable... I am not paying for their cell phones since I don't own one, or gambling or cigarettes. I am not bringing them on vacations (that will probably be taken to get a few days away from them in the first place and funded by the lack of cable) What truly scares me however, is I know I can't afford my fil medications. No two ways about that, and he can't go off of them so hopefully they will qualify for help in that dept.

Very true. Our grandparents mostly worked for one company their whole productive lives and retired with a pension plan plus social security. Health insurance through their pension and medicare to fill the gaps mostly covered their health expenditures. Now, the average worker stays with one company for far fewer years. I personally haven't stayed longer than 5 years with one company. I have never worked for a company that offered a pension plan. All the companies I've worked for have offered 401k/403b plans with a very nominal match amount.

Food and shelter are all I can see being able to provide. Medicare, drug company assistance programs, cheaper medication alternatives (Walmart's $4 list, I'm not above asking the doc if something on that list will treat the problem) will have to take care of medicines. And we're definitely not providing luxuries like cable to broke people.

 

[Disneyadore]

Sure there are. I know I am going to get flamed for this, and to be honest, I might someday even fit into this category, however... I like to tell people, you never know you were successful as a parent until they grow up. I aim for my children to be independent, law abiding, productive citizens. I usually say it when young mothers debate of cloth or disposable diapers or breast or bottle feeding and a bigger picture is needed (my sisters both have very little ones and fall on opposite sides so it gets nasty), but it is true, and I also tell my children this often.

This doesn't change the fact that the retirement picture has greatly changed between my grandparents generation and our parents. Just the way it is. I do plan on being there for the people who gave us life, however, other than food in the belly and a roof over their heads is all I can afford to provide. They may not even get cable... I am not paying for their cell phones since I don't own one, or gambling or cigarettes. I am not bringing them on vacations (that will probably be taken to get a few days away from them in the first place and funded by the lack of cable) What truly scares me however, is I know I can't afford my fil medications. No two ways about that, and he can't go off of them so hopefully they will qualify for help in that dept.

No flames of course but these problems are just like a twelve way broad high way and its very tricky to get to the other side without a traffic light.

 

[eliza61]

I feel every families dynamics are different. My parents afforded their children every opportunity and footed the bills for those opportunities, as well. I would jump at the chance to have my mother move into my home so I could do for her a small portion of what she and my father did for all of their children.

My mother is very independent minded at age 86 and refuses to live with any of her children and has made it clear she won't do so at any point of her remaining years. She says she doesn't want to be a burden on any of her children. Having my mother live with me and letting me do for her wouldn't be a budren, it would be a blessing.

dsny1mom

That is sooo me. It's funny I wonder what would have happen if all parents treated their children this way when we were young.

I could never repay what my parents gave me, so my attitude is if they become destitute (well it's just my dad now) I would bend over backwards to help them out.
If my parents stopped and ask "how is this financially going to effect us" every time the pull my hindparts out of a scrap or supported me I would be in a world of trouble indeed.
It's funny how most people have the attitude you should do every thing humanly possible for your children but suddenly when it's the elderly parent needing assistance, now it's all sorts of problems.
LOL, maybe elderly parents should start keeping a detailed list so when their kids start complaining that they are not doing enough for retirement and they are worried that they will have to kick in, they can come back with... "Remember when you needed college tuition and we shelled out 17 grand... we'd like that back please"

 

[barkley]

That is sooo me. It's funny I wonder what would have happen if all parents treated their children this way when we were young.

I could never repay what my parents gave me, so my attitude is if they become destitute (well it's just my dad now) I would bend over backwards to help them out.
If my parents stopped and ask "how is this financially going to effect us" every time the pull my hindparts out of a scrap or supported me I would be in a world of trouble indeed.
It's funny how most people have the attitude you should do every thing humanly possible for your children but suddenly when it's the elderly parent needing assistance, now it's all sorts of problems.
LOL, maybe elderly parents should start keeping a detailed list so when their kids start complaining that they are not doing enough for retirement and they are worried that they will have to kick in, they can come back with... "Remember when you needed college tuition and we shelled out 17 grand... we'd like that back please"

i had a group of co-workers whose cultural attitude was that the money they paid out for thier children's education WAS their retirement planning. the norm was the 'kids' stayed in the family home until they married, with mom/dad footing the bill for college. when these kids became employed but were still unmarried there was no concept of them paying/helping out with the household expenses. then down the road when mom/dad got to a certain age they automaticaly moved in with one of their kids (or round robined spending so many months with one then the other...) paying no rent or helping out with the adult child's household expenses. their "investment portfolio" was the education they provided the person who would in turn provide for them.

 

[Disneyadore]

LOL, maybe elderly parents should start keeping a detailed list so when their kids start complaining that they are not doing enough for retirement and they are worried that they will have to kick in, they can come back with... "Remember when you needed college tuition and we shelled out 17 grand... we'd like that back please"

Many many moons ago my grandmother had a perfect system for this.
She had some very expensive antiques.
On the back she put little name stickers. Every time one of my aunts or uncle's tried to belittler her she removed the sticker and put the name of another child on it.
It was always so funny seeing my aunts and uncle's tried to peek at the sticker. I never saw antiques get cleaned so often

 

[The Mystery Machine]

That is sooo me. It's funny I wonder what would have happen if all parents treated their children this way when we were young.

I could never repay what my parents gave me, so my attitude is if they become destitute (well it's just my dad now) I would bend over backwards to help them out.
If my parents stopped and ask "how is this financially going to effect us" every time the pull my hindparts out of a scrap or supported me I would be in a world of trouble indeed.
It's funny how most people have the attitude you should do every thing humanly possible for your children but suddenly when it's the elderly parent needing assistance, now it's all sorts of problems.
LOL, maybe elderly parents should start keeping a detailed list so when their kids start complaining that they are not doing enough for retirement and they are worried that they will have to kick in, they can come back with... "Remember when you needed college tuition and we shelled out 17 grand... we'd like that back please"

Did your parents let your electricity get cut off more than once when you were a kid?
Or have the IRS garnish wages so all the kids had to get a job to pay for food?
Did you ever have to pull your parents from debt and pay their bills because they spend money without regard to consequences?

I am guessing no from your post.

My childhood was spent parenting my parents. It gets tiring.

Now would I do what is necessary? Of course. I would not let my parents be homeless.

And we do expect to have our parents in our home soon. They are in their 70's and spending money they do not have as usual.

They are not bad or evil people, just horrible with money.

 

[lovemygoofy]

Did your parents let your electricity get cut off more than once when you were a kid?
Or have the IRS garnish wages so all the kids had to get a job to pay for food?
Did you ever have to pull your parents from debt and pay their bills because they spend money without regard to consequences?

I am guessing no from your post.

My childhood was spent parenting my parents. It gets tiring.

Now would I do what is necessary? Of course. I would not let my parents be homeless.

And we do expect to have our parents in our home soon. They are in their 70's and spending money they do not have as usual.

They are not bad or evil people, just horrible with money.

I completely understand. It's not exactly a happy thing when it's hitting you in the face constantly and causing issue in your household.

My mom and my mother in law will more than likely be living with us at some point. Trust me I'm not leaping and shouting with joy at this. They are in their mid 50s and live like they are 100. I'm pretty sure they are going to out live us because of they stress they cause us.

It's hard when you are constantly worrying about your mom or having to put away money that should be for our future to make sure they are taken care of. They are our moms and we love them and will take care of them but when it has always been the child taking care of the parent, it just doesn't seem that fun to rearrange your household to take care of moms who has always had poor judgement.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I completely understand. It's not exactly a happy thing when it's hitting you in the face constantly and causing issue in your household.

My mom and my mother in law will more than likely be living with us at some point. Trust me I'm not leaping and shouting with joy at this. They are in their mid 50s and live like they are 100. I'm pretty sure they are going to out live us because of they stress they cause us.

It's hard when you are constantly worrying about your mom or having to put away money that should be for our future to make sure they are taken care of. They are our moms and we love them and will take care of them but when it has always been the child taking care of the parent, it just doesn't seem that fun to rearrange your household to take care of moms who has always had poor judgement.

We don't worry anymore.

As morbid as it sounds we enjoy the happy parts and then deal with the crisis situations as they happen. We have done it enough times to know that we can work things out and move on.

Currently they are in an apartment and hanging in there.

 

[eliza61]

Did your parents let your electricity get cut off more than once when you were a kid?
Or have the IRS garnish wages so all the kids had to get a job to pay for food?
Did you ever have to pull your parents from debt and pay their bills because they spend money without regard to consequences?

I am guessing no from your post.

My childhood was spent parenting my parents. It gets tiring.

Now would I do what is necessary? Of course. I would not let my parents be homeless.

And we do expect to have our parents in our home soon. They are in their 70's and spending money they do not have as usual.

They are not bad or evil people, just horrible with money.

It does get tiring but I'm willing to bet dollars to donughts that parents bailing out the kids especially now with this horrible recession is far more common than the opposite.
There are so many adults kids moving back in with their parents we've coined a new term for it. "Rebound" kids.

How many times on these forums do we hear from people who go through nasty divorces and need their parents financial help? Quite a lot. Would those same people let their parents have a look at their finances? "Dear, you never know what might happen. Are you saving"? but yet they fully expect their parents to help them out.

I wonder what would happen if parents started saying "You know dear, sorry you married a dead beat and you are about to be homeless, but really we can't afford to help you" maybe you should have planned a little better.


You are absolutely right, I had a wonderful childhood so I can't begin to imagine how stressful it would be if I had to deal with some of the issues you have. I often say maybe we need a test before people can have kids because we all know there are bone headed parents out there.

I think though, that more often than not parents bail their children out financially way more than the other way around.
I just find it funny that when it's a parent helping a child that is perfectly normal and in fact we almost consider people who don't as "Bad" parents but yet God forbid if an Adult child has to financially help out an elderly parent.
the nerve of that parent for even remotely suggesting that their kids help them. Bad, Bad grandma.

 

[lovemygoofy]

It does get tiring but I'm willing to bet dollars to donughts that parents bailing out the kids especially now with this horrible recession is far more common than the opposite.
There are so many adults kids moving back in with their parents we've coined a new term for it. "Rebound" kids.

How many times on these forums do we hear from people who go through nasty divorces and need their parents financial help? Quite a lot. Would those same people let their parents have a look at their finances? "Dear, you never know what might happen. Are you saving"? but yet they fully expect their parents to help them out.

I wonder what would happen if parents started saying "You know dear, sorry you married a dead beat and you are about to be homeless, but really we can't afford to help you" maybe you should have planned a little better.


You are absolutely right, I had a wonderful childhood so I can't begin to imagine how stressful it would be if I had to deal with some of the issues you have. I often say maybe we need a test before people can have kids because we all know there are bone headed parents out there.

I think though, that more often than not parents bail their children out financially way more than the other way around.
I just find it funny that when it's a parent helping a child that is perfectly normal and in fact we almost consider people who don't as "Bad" parents but yet God forbid if an Adult child has to financially help out an elderly parent.
the nerve of that parent for even remotely suggesting that their kids help them. Bad, Bad grandma.

I think you are talking about a completely different situation than MM and I are talking about. A once in a lifetime event that causes downfall whether for parent or child is different than an every month/year occurence.

A parent that constantly bails out a child or is always supplementing a child isn't doing that kid any good either. A child that has to bail out a parent because their retirement was wiped out by the recession or by Madeoff is different.

In our household we have to plan for our moms' futures because they can't or won't. We had a monthly savings account set up for them because we know they can't go through the year without needing help or when those crazy emergencies happen, we have to help out. It is things like this that can cause stress in a household. We don't have children and joke that we have two 50 year olds. When we retire we know that our forever house will have room for both moms. If it gets to the point that my father in law can't live on his own, I have no idea what we will do. It's just sad that we had to plan for our parents when they can't.

 

[MrsPete]

You can also turn that question around.
Should parents that have very irresponsible children that threw there money out of the window on luxury, a heated swimming pool and expensive vacations tot WDW take there children and grand children back into there homes and lives?
Children that did not save for a rainy day and thought : well were young who needs a health insurance.
Parents that warned there children for years that there money bubble would burst and there CC debt would strangle them some day . . .

You're right, of course: plenty of children -- adult children, I mean -- are living well beyond their means and are looking to their parents as a safety net. However, there's one big difference. If a 30-year old suddenly realizes, "Hey, I've dug a pretty big debt hole, and I've screwed up", he has years left in which he can change his ways, take on an extra job, get out of debt, and start to save. Maybe it'll be tough for him, but assuming he's able-bodied and willing to work, he CAN do it. That's pretty tough for an 80-year old who suddenly realizes the same thing. The 80-year old has fewer opportunities to turn the situation around; his only option may be to rely upon his children.

Very true. Our grandparents mostly worked for one company their whole productive lives and retired with a pension plan plus social security. Health insurance through their pension and medicare to fill the gaps mostly covered their health expenditures. Now, the average worker stays with one company for far fewer years. I personally haven't stayed longer than 5 years with one company. I have never worked for a company that offered a pension plan. All the companies I've worked for have offered 401k/403b plans with a very nominal match amount . . .

I live in an area where the textile mills used to be big (before Clinton signed the NAFTA bill, but that's another topic), and GENERATIONS of people looked to the mill not only for their livelihood but also for their retirement. It wasn't a luxurious lifestyle, but it was a sure-thing: You'd work for the mill just like your parents had done. The mill didn't pay much, but they gave you a small shotgun house close enough that you could walk to work and didn't need a car. You shopped at the mill's grocery store, went to the mill's doctor, and worshipped at the church right there in the middle of the mill-town. The mill gave everyone a turkey at Thanksgiving, a ham at Christmas, and it shut down for a week on July 4. You didn't need to consider your children's educations; when they were ready to start working, you just took them in and the mill folks would find a place for them to start. People were loyal to the mill -- not that they had much in the way of other options -- and the mill took care of them. When they retired, they had a small pension, and they got to stay in the mill house. No one needed to save for retirement. If you'd put in your years, you'd be taken care of.

This worked in my grandmother's day. Options like that don't exist anymore. People who don't actively plan to have retirement funds, WON'T have them.

Throw in one more thing to the "our grandparents used to have" category: By the time they retired, they had a paid-for house. They bought a small house when they were young, and IF they "moved up", it was only once or maybe twice in their whole lives. Today so many people "move up" in to mini-mansions, which they can ill-afford, and one result is that they're still paying on a mortgage at retirement time. A small pension + social security stretches a whole lot farther IF you're not paying a mortgage.

They are not bad or evil people, just horrible with money.

Yep, I think we all know people like that -- and some of them are parents. Their children have every reason to be concerned that one day they'll be expected to push their own needs and their children's needs aside and make room in their home and their budget for the parents who didn't plan well.

 

[Freyja]

Somebody's not getting it, all right, but that somebody is YOU!

How dare you keep your mother's money from her and not allow her to spend it! It is HER money, not yours.

I could not agree more!

 

[suzanna1066@comcast.]

I am sympathetic to the OP. My mom just retired and she planned very badly. She is wholly reliant on her pension and SS. He small nest egg can easily be wiped out by a minor emergency.
Just because they are your parents does not mean they have more financial savvy than you. I wish my mom had taken some of my advice years ago----but she thought she was smarter than me. Now, they only way she gets something extra (like a Disney vacation) is if me or my sister pays for it.

 

[mumom95]

That is sooo me. It's funny I wonder what would have happen if all parents treated their children this way when we were young.

I could never repay what my parents gave me, so my attitude is if they become destitute (well it's just my dad now) I would bend over backwards to help them out.
If my parents stopped and ask "how is this financially going to effect us" every time the pull my hindparts out of a scrap or supported me I would be in a world of trouble indeed.
It's funny how most people have the attitude you should do every thing humanly possible for your children but suddenly when it's the elderly parent needing assistance, now it's all sorts of problems.
LOL, maybe elderly parents should start keeping a detailed list so when their kids start complaining that they are not doing enough for retirement and they are worried that they will have to kick in, they can come back with... "Remember when you needed college tuition and we shelled out 17 grand... we'd like that back please"

You do realize there are A LOT of bad parents out there don't you? Drug addicted, alcoholic, abusive (mentally, physically and sexually).

A parent decides to have a child either by planning to get pregnant or by not using birth control and getting pregnant. The child has absolutely no say in the matter. There are many parents out there that make their kids lives a living hell. Believe me, having been a teacher I saw plenty of it. It's kind of sad that people like you believe these kids now have to spend the rest of their lives taking care of their loser parents. I guess that's why it ends up becoming such a cycle, because even if these kids could break away and make something of their lives, you feel they shouldn't because they owe it to their parents to take care of them. Sad