Work Vacation issue. WWYD?

[Nancyg56]

Since Mom does not seem to have any qualms resigning from this horribly set up job, Mom's availability probably was just a minor issue when the wedding was planned over a year ago.

No matter how this was set up, the mom should not have made her issue a problem her coworkers needed to solve.

See, you are basically saying "this is how it always has been and how it has to be because this is how my job works."

And I say "how your job works is stupid."

.

It's not just medical job that use seniority based time off with restrictions in place to manage the work load. Many workplaces use this system and implement their own rules in regards to how weeks are chosen. It's fine to choose not to work there, but if you take the job you know what you signed up for.

 

[sweetpeama]

Meh, hard to make judgments here. None of us on this board would miss our daughter's wedding, even if it meant losing our jobs. IMO, neither the OP or the MOB are wrong. They both have valid points. I think the OP should take whatever week she wants. And I think the MOB should do whatever she needs to do when the time comes.

Refrencing the I will cover for you so you can attend your child's school performance and not showing up along with other times in this thread OP has stated that MOB has said she will cover for co workers and does not even when they are willing to cover for her. To me daughter's wedding aside that points to someone who is not a team player.
I got hired at the job I had up until my oldest was born less than a week before my wedding with my day off being in the middle of the week. Both the boss and senior employee took a day on either side of the weekend so they could have a 3 day weekend. When starting to fill out paperwork I just mentioned that we would have to do this soon because I was getting married that next Sunday. The senior employee said that she would switch days off that week, and I covered for her on some later days so she could deal with an emergency regarding one of her kids.

 

[sweetpeama]

No matter how this was set up, the mom should not have made her issue a problem her coworkers needed to solve.



It's not just medical job that use seniority based time off with restrictions in place to manage the work load. Many workplaces use this system and implement their own rules in regards to how weeks are chosen. It's fine to choose not to work there, but if you take the job you know what you signed up for.

My DH's job is based on seniority as well as how many weeks they get. He currently gets 3 weeks plus an extra floating day ( employee's birthday) and since some of them end up working Memorial Day, Independence Day, and Labor Day ( some how they manage to be off for Thanksgiving and Christmas) those that have enough seniority get the option of replacing the day with another day or holiday pay for the first 8 followed by regular overtime pay for over that. They really want them to take at least 1 week of their vacation at once ( it was enforced one year). They start with the most senior person who selects their week and so on down the line. Then go back and get individual days. Unless it's a year with a family reunion other than trying to get the 4th off he doesn't take any vacation in the summer months. We home educate our children so have the flexibility to travel at other times of the year and actually to avoid the high crowds even for making a trip to the Black Hills would rather go in early to mid May or early to mid September. Places that are warmer like Disney we have even more options since we don't have to worry about snow. Schools here don't have a spring break except for a 4 day weekend at Easter instead back in the early 2000's they went to a stupid idiotic lets do a day off in the middle of the week throughout the year so that families who can't get off in the summer ( high farm and ranch area where the slow time of year is usually mid November to early February the rest of the time is spent between birthing seasons, planting, and harvesting) because when that is your occupation and home that has often been in your family for generations you don't take off for a long period of time.

Even without seniority when he needed a week in January for our Disney Trip back in 2010 it was no problem ( no one wants that week too often around here)

 

[fla4fun]

We only have six people in our department, and a never ending flow of work with strict deadlines. So we have to be careful that only one person is out at a time so that all the work can be distributed and completed on time. No one can be out the first five business days of the month for any month. No one can take Christmas week, the week before and after Easter, and they prefer that we not schedule vacations during summer because that's one of our busiest seasons (although they will consider early June or late August requests - July is pretty much a no go). The problem we are having is since we work in the travel industry, the company is very generous with vacation time. So we all have a lot of weeks to try to organize so no one loses any time (we have a use it or lose it policy). It's very much first come, first serve, but there are very few people in the department that like to plan way in advance. This works out well for me. I get six weeks, so I take three between January 1 and May 31 (usually January, March and May) and then three between Sept 1 and Dec 23rdish (usually early September, late October and early December). Since we are open seven days a week, we don't get to take holidays off unless they fall on our day off or it's a holiday we can incorporate into a vacation (I had to work today), but we do get the holiday pay on top of the hours worked. It's a trade off really, because I work four 10 hour days, so I have a three day weekend every week. That's a perk that I wouldn't want to give up just because I might have to move a vacation week around a little once in a while.

I hope the OP is able to get the time off she needs without having an angry co-worker harassing her.

 

[PollyannaMom]

... I paid my dues now they pay theirs! Took me almost 10 years to be able to get a week off in the summer or any week the kids had off from school. But that is how it is there...

(Not picking on this poster specifically, it was just a good description to start from.)

I still think it's a broken system. You wait years and years to finally get something...only when you don't need it anymore? (For example, you finally get school vacation week once your kids are out of school, or Christmas morning after they don't believe in Santa anymore.) There has to be a better system!

And please nobody jump on me for saying parents should always get their way, and nobody else's family members count! That's not what I mean. I just lean toward taking turns on a short-term scale rather than in huge chunks, and negotiating around individual conditions rather than just picking something that sounds fair but might not fit the actual, changing make-up of a particular workplace.

 

[xlxo]

They start with the most senior person who selects their week and so on down the line. Then go back and get individual days. Unless it's a year with a family reunion other than trying to get the 4th off he doesn't take any vacation in the summer months.

Where I work.... the only way to break the vacation schedule is a serious family illness or a funeral. Family reunion would not count.

 

[CarolAnn856]

Refrencing the I will cover for you so you can attend your child's school performance and not showing up along with other times in this thread OP has stated that MOB has said she will cover for co workers and does not even when they are willing to cover for her. To me daughter's wedding aside that points to someone who is not a team player.

In fairness to the co-worker, though, that little tidbit didn't get mentioned until after posters said that they would leave the week open for the her.

 

[tvguy]

I still think it's a broken system. You wait years and years to finally get something...only when you don't need it anymore? (For example, you finally get school vacation week once your kids are out of school, or Christmas morning after they don't believe in Santa anymore.) There has to be a better system!

The system isn't broken, it just doesn't exist. I've been working for over 40 years and I have never seen a fair vacation system. Any vacation system that has restrictions will prevent someone from getting time off they want or need.
The school vacation argument has always amused me. The average American worker gets 2 weeks vacation. The average public school is out of session 16 weeks a year. I have never been able to get my arms around a co-worker says they can't get time off when their kids our out of school with so many weeks open as options.
And this isn't even a first world problem, 23% of American workers get no paid vacation.

 

[littlejimmy]

Me too. I work for myself now but in the past when I worked for bosses, I was always upfront with them when they hired me that I don't put up with vacation requests getting denied. I simply send them a notice with the dates that I will be gone, and that's that. If they don't like it, they can banish me to the unemployment line.

haha. ok tough guy. I call bs on this.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

haha. ok tough guy. I call bs on this.

Why do you think I work for myself now? LOL, some bosses were okay with it and some weren't. Not B.S. at all.

 

[sam_gordon]

The average public school is out of session 16 weeks a year. I have never been able to get my arms around a co-worker says they can't get time off when their kids our out of school with so many weeks open as options.

Depends on how many people are in the department/can take vacation at the same time. Assume 20 people in a department. If you're "low man", it would be easy to not be allowed to take the time.

FWIW, where do you get the "16 weeks"? Are you counting all the individual days throughout the year? Summer break is 10 (for us), spring break 1, Winter break 2. That's 13 weeks. The two weeks at winter will be hard for someone with low seniority to get, so that leaves 11.

 

[sweetpeama]

Where I work.... the only way to break the vacation schedule is a serious family illness or a funeral. Family reunion would not count.

He is not breaking the vacation schedule as he has enough seniority being in the top 5 for seniority to be able to take vacation time every summer if he wanted to. Since we home educate and would rather travel at the less crowded times we as a family choose not to have him take vacation time during the summer except for the reunion. Not to mention that summers are the busier times for them and taking vacation then means you miss out on the overtime. That is an extra perk of being with a company for over 11 years when most of them do not last a year due to the physical demands.
Even if our kids were to take either the home school co-op classes designed for older grades, or courses though the university they would have a longer vacation schedule. Co-op starts the week following Labor Day, takes the entire week of Thanksgiving off, and breaks for Christmas and the term at the end of the 2nd full week in December. For Spring they return at the start of the 2nd full week in January ( for this year it will be on the 9th) have a week off in March ( a lot of the kids go to a program called teen pac which I am on the fence about mainly because we can still have sub zero temps around here that time of year and girls must be in dresses only. Having gotten 2nd degree frostbite wearing dresses as a kid I see this as a safety issue and see no problem with females wearing a nice woman's business pant suit. On the other hand the hands on learning about our state legislature and how the political process works would be beneficial), a week off for Easter and finish up the 2nd week in May. The university classes start the Wed after Labor Day, have a week long fall break, have a week at Thanksgiving, term ends at the end of the 1st week of December and unless your taking interum classes ( which run the two week before Christmas and the two weeks after new years and count towards the spring term credits-I did one because it was a required course only offered at that time but it's even more intense than a summer session one so you are limited to 2 classes and a max of 6 credits). Spring starts the Wed after Martin Luther King Day, has a spring break sometime in March or April depending on how Easter Falls, 2 days for Easter ( Thurs and Friday instead of Friday and Monday that the public school has so parents get to figure out child care for Monday a lot of which just park them in the library or the student union commons area especially upper elementary and middle school aged kids) and finish up the first Friday in May.
With that schedule we can easily take a vacation the 3rd week of May and enjoy lower crowds and lower costs just about anywhere we go, again if it's a Disney trip we can go a week or two before Christmas and not have them miss any class time. For places like Yellowstone or the Black Hills there is not much of a weather difference if you go May 20-27 or Sometime after June 10th ( once you hit mid July into Aug that does change as it gets quite a bit warmer, but you also have a lot more people especially if it's the week of Sturgis in the hills)

 

[Nancyg56]

(Not picking on this poster specifically, it was just a good description to start from.)

I still think it's a broken system. You wait years and years to finally get something...only when you don't need it anymore? (For example, you finally get school vacation week once your kids are out of school, or Christmas morning after they don't believe in Santa anymore.) There has to be a better system!

And please nobody jump on me for saying parents should always get their way, and nobody else's family members count! That's not what I mean. I just lean toward taking turns on a short-term scale rather than in huge chunks, and negotiating around individual conditions rather than just picking something that sounds fair but might not fit the actual, changing make-up of a particular workplace.

How is it broken? Perhaps at that workplace there may be issues, but in many others you work your way up and then you get to choose yout time off. In my office ther are only 6 of us, so we need to be careful how we choose time off. An accountant needs to be in the office daily so time off needs to be chosen carefully. We do not use seniority, but with only 3 accountants, one of whom is the boss, choosing vacation time can be iffy. Add that I am the payrioll department, with my daughter as my backup....so the two of us cannot be out on Mondays and Tuesdays together, there is another layer of planning. Working conditions are good, and put employer is fair, so we make it work.

 

[tvguy]

FWIW, where do you get the "16 weeks"? Are you counting all the individual days throughout the year? Summer break is 10 (for us), spring break 1, Winter break 2. That's 13 weeks. The two weeks at winter will be hard for someone with low seniority to get, so that leaves 11.

Not sure it matters since most parents only get 2 weeks vacation.

But just for yucks:
This academic year started 8-18-16, and end June 8, 2017 and the 2017-17 academic year will begin 8-17-16
Thanksgiving break 1 week
Christmas break 2 weeks
President's Day week 1 week
Easter break 1 week
June 3 weeks
July 4 weeks
August 2 weeks

Okay, that works out to 14 full weeks off. Not counting that school starts on a Thursday. Or 7 Holidays that are individually scattered through the year, or the 5 non-instruction days scattered individually through the year, or that fact that every Thursday is a half day. However, all those could create child care issues for working parents where they need to use a vacation, sick or personal day. That's like 82 days.

Granted, we are down to the legal minimum of instruction days now here at 180 days, not the 200 when I was in elementary school in the 1960's.

 

[SMD]

Not sure it matters since most parents only get 2 weeks vacation.

But just for yucks:
This academic year started 8-18-16, and end June 8, 2017 and the 2017-17 academic year will begin 8-17-16
Thanksgiving break 1 week
Christmas break 2 weeks
President's Day week 1 week
Easter break 1 week
June 3 weeks
July 4 weeks
August 2 weeks

Okay, that works out to 14 full weeks off. Not counting that school starts on a Thursday. Or 7 Holidays that are individually scattered through the year, or the 5 non-instruction days scattered individually through the year, or that fact that every Thursday is a half day. However, all those could create child care issues for working parents where they need to use a vacation, sick or personal day. That's like 82 days.

Granted, we are down to the legal minimum of instruction days now here at 180 days, not the 200 when I was in elementary school in the 1960's.

This past summer you said your 2 local districts start July 11th and August 16th. Regardless, teachers don't always get the same vacation days that students get.

 

[Disney_traveler]

Random thought::::::
Let's say OP picks the week of the wedding. MOB manages to make a trade with her to get the week. Daughter cancels wedding. Would MOB want to trade again? Would she offer the week back to OP? Renege on whatever the arrangements were because she didn't need the week desperately anymore?

 

[tvguy]

This past summer you said your 2 local districts start July 11th and August 16th. Regardless, teachers don't always get the same vacation days that students get.

True, they work those 5 in service days, and begin a few days before, and work until a few days after the academic year. Although their employment agreements are still referred to as " standard 9 month contracts", not sure if that math works.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

Random thought::::::
Let's say OP picks the week of the wedding. MOB manages to make a trade with her to get the week. Daughter cancels wedding. Would MOB want to trade again? Would she offer the week back to OP? Renege on whatever the arrangements were because she didn't need the week desperately anymore?

She would be SOL

On another point, there have been times where I've ran certain groups and my the owner of the company (have always worked for small companies) asked my opinion on whether seniority should be the decider on who gets to take certain days off. I was always firmly against it.

I'm a big believer in first come, first serve. If you're the low guy on the totem pole but you notify me 14 months ahead that you need certain dates for a vaca, you got it. If someone else (who can't be gone at the same time) needs those dates, they will have to work it out with the person who asked for the dates. I'm sure some people will disagree with me but I believe that's a much more fair way of doing it.

 

[tvguy]

She would be SOL

On another point, there have been times where I've ran certain groups and my the owner of the company (have always worked for small companies) asked my opinion on whether seniority should be the decider on who gets to take certain days off. I was always firmly against it.

I'm a big believer in first come, first serve. If you're the low guy on the totem pole but you notify me 14 months ahead that you need certain dates for a vaca, you got it. If someone else (who can't be gone at the same time) needs those dates, they will have to work it out with the person who asked for the dates. I'm sure some people will disagree with me but I believe that's a much more fair way of doing it.

The problem is in many industries, pay scales are nearly identical for newly hired workers and those who have been with the company for decades. It is in my industry. Vacation pick priority is often the only perk the worker with seniority gets.
And I understand what a pain vacation selections are to managers. My wife's place had a job open that historically includes scheduling, and it said so in the ad. EVERY applicant they interviewed up front said they would not accept the job if scheduling remained one of it's tasks. After months of this, they finally had to revise the job to take vacation scheduling.

 

[xlxo]

My employer has a variation..... In December, it's based on seniority for the following year. After February... it's first come, first serve for the remaining days.

A frustrating experience is when someone requests preferred dates (eg summer break)... then shows up for work without notifying others those dates are available.

@Disney_traveler: Good point about the wedding not going ahead.... it would be a great scam to get preferred summer dates by bypassing senior staff.