Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space"

[peter11435]

One death just occurred so there is no medical report.

While the full report is not yet out. The ME has released some information. WHat was released thus far was that the women suffered no trauma, and that she has severe long standing high blood pressure.

And no report I have seen has referred to anyone being a walking time bomb, that is a characterization people here have placed on people, not a ME report.

Actually in the case of the 4-year old boy the ME did essentially say that he was a walking time bomb. What he basically said was that people with his condition are at high risk of sudden death at all times during their life. Anything stressful even just playing a sport would have eventually resulted in the same outcome.

 

[G8RFAN]

How do you know that two dead guests both had medical conditions? I think the central question here is whether Disney can be held accountable. The ride itself may not be the causal factor in any death but it could be a contributing factor. If it is a contributing factor then it needs to be studied and addressed. Inferring that someone who knows they have a specific medical condition shouldn't ride is easy, it's the low hanging fruit. The real challenge for Disney to be concerned about is whether they've created an attraction that contributes to an undiagnosed medical condition resulting in serious injury or death.

Bingo! There you have it. All the science, statistics, medical opinions are meaningless to everyone but a judge and jury. They will decide whether it will be too costly for Disney to operate an intense ride such as MS. As I mentioned, every post here intrigues me because an attorney will certainly look for obvious bias during voir dire. Many of you are a tort attorney's dream juror while others obviously believe Disney could do no wrong. Strangely, some who bleed pixie dust apparently believe that MS and other intense rides have no place at WDW. Maybe the correlation is that they probably hate Universal also. If the attorney representing Daudi Bamuwamye parents is not lurking the Disney forums to build profiles and craft perfect questions, he should be fired. Nearly everyone has heard of Disney and many have been to WDW so jury selection is probably of greater importance than the facts and statistics put together. Some like myself have ridden on carnival rides similar to the gravitron or tilt-a-whirls and can associate the centrifugal forces to be similar if not greater than MS. However, as a parent of a DS 4.5, I expect every ride to be 100% safe at carnivals and WDW as long as we are not reckless. Quite honestly, I don't know how I would vote, but I guess it would be the more compelling story being told in the courtroom.

 

[Andrew812]

Unfortunitly we seem to want to point blame at some thing for some ones death. the fact is that the majority of people who are adults are in poor shape. Look around, you see over weight out of shape people every where. these are the people who should really think about doing something that is going to elevate their heart rates when that hasn't happened in some time. Your heart can't go from a lazy pace to pounding through your chest, it can't take that type of stress. Maybe people shopuld really think about what they are doing and the shape they are in and be responsible for them selves.

 

[peter11435]

I expect every ride to be 100% safe at carnivals and WDW as long as we are not reckless.

But the question is. Is it being reckless to ride an attraction even though you have a condition that they clearly warn against riding with?

 

[G8RFAN]

But the question is. Is it being reckless to ride an attraction even though you have a condition that they clearly warn against riding with?

That's the rub. Was I aware of the condition and if I were not, does Disney still have the responsibility to design rides to take into consideration of people who have undiagnosed conditions, whether common or rare. Here is an example: would there be a case if a woman who is unknowingly carrying a 2 month fetus dies from complications of a miscarriage after getting rear ended at the Indy Speedway by a kid who wasn't paying attention to the no bumping rule? What about a woman who is at 3 months, knows she is pregnant and still decides to ride? Would Disney be liable if CM's let a woman who is clearly in her third trimester get in the car? Why would they design bumpers if no bumping is allowed. Maybe they should be designed with proximity sensors. Now before anyone gets in a wad, clearly there are people out there who have undiagnosed conditions. Warnings are helpful in a court of law, but even if we were all asked to sign indemnifications or waivers, there is still a level of implied safety and could there be a proven level of negligence by ....ahem.... imagineers in a tragedy all warnings and waivers of rights would be out the window.

I must admit, I do not think it is possible to sucessfully design a "thrill ride" without increasing a riders adrenaline or heart rate and there are only 5 senses to work with. I hope I am not sounding cavalier, but at some point you can not design a ride that won't nudge that one person who is at the threshold of their maker and still attract a more adventurous crowd than that found at Dumbo. Therefore, there are no easy answers to this, and it all boils down to the economic viability of the "cost" of the ride vs the revenue it draws. It will be interesting to see case law on these types of deaths.

 

[peter11435]

Here is an example: would there be a case if a woman who is unknowingly carrying a 2 month fetus dies from complications of a miscarriage after getting rear ended at the Indy Speedway by a kid who wasn't paying attention to the no bumping rule? What about a woman who is at 3 months, knows she is pregnant and still decides to ride? Would Disney be liable if CM's let a woman who is clearly in her third trimester get in the car?

Personal responsibility.

There comes a time when we need to stop relying on others to make everything safe and protect us. In essence we are asking Disney to protect us from ourselves. Eventually we need to take responsibility for our own actions.

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

Here is what this all boils down to... Half of us like M:S, half don't (I don't).. The half that likes M:S wouldn't care if 500 people died in 2 days after riding M:S.. They will still blame the riders, not the ride... Only half of the half that don't like M:S would call for the ride to shut, while the other half would continue to refuse to ride it....

The ride is not going anywhere, unfortunately... And for those of us who do not like the ride, then we should simply not ride it... There will be more calls for medical attention due to this ride, and uinfortunately there will be another death... My question is, how many are going to have to die before Disney takes some action on this ride, which, sorry to say to all the M:S supporters out there, is the most harmful, dangerous ride in WDW... Numbers do not lie, and M:S has more than double the calls for medical assistance that any other ride in WDW....

 

[peter11435]

The half that likes M:S wouldn't care if 500 people died in 2 days after riding M:S.. They will still blame the riders, not the ride ....

That is not true at all.

Up to know the ride has not been to blame for a single death. I will blame the ride when it is at fault. Additionally saying that someone should not have been on the ride because they had a condition is not blaming the rider. It is stating a fact.

Numbers do not lie, and M:S has more than double the calls for medical assistance that any other ride in WDW....

You’re basing that on numbers over just a two-year period from the Orlando Slantinel.

 

[DancingBear]

Personal responsibility.

There comes a time when we need to stop relying on others to make everything safe and protect us. In essence we are asking Disney to protect us from ourselves. Eventually we need to take responsibility for our own actions.

Again, does that mean Disney should start offering "Base Jump Off of Tower of Terror," and as long as there are adequate warnings given and adults make the assumption of risk, it's a good idea?

There are issues here for Disney beyond legal liability and bad PR.

 

[peter11435]

Again, does that mean Disney should start offering "Base Jump Off of Tower of Terror," and as long as there are adequate warnings given and adults make the assumption of risk, it's a good idea?

No. These are two entirely different issues. M:S is a safe ride. Millions of guests have ridden M:S with no problems. Guests are warned against riding M:S with certain conditions the same way they have been warned against riding other Disney attractions with those conditions for decades. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist (or even a warning to sign) to tell people that riding an attraction like M:S or even RnR with a severe heart problem is a bad idea.

People with pre-existing conditions have died on Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain, Body Wars and many other attractions. Should those be scrutinized in the same way M:S is being looked at.

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

That is not true at all.

You’re basing that on numbers over just a two-year period from the Orlando Slantinel.

so, the Orlando Sentinel made these numbers up? Then Disney should be suing them... And it only makes sense to be using numbers from a two year period since M:S has only been opened for 2 years... And in those 2 years, M:S has more complaints than any other WDW attraction during that same time frame... So, what is your point exactly???

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

People with pre-existing conditions have died on Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain, Body Wars and many other attractions. Should those be scrutinized in the same way M:S is being looked at.

No because the calls for medical attention after these rides are minimal compared to 200 in 2 years for M:S...

 

[tomerin]

I think there are hundreds of people every day who get on M:S that would never ride the gravitron simply because they don't realize what it is. Most just assume it is simply a simulator and doesn't really do anything.

very well said.

i often wonder how many of the people who required medcial assistance,not singling out the 2 people who tragically died, would have ridden MS if they knew it was a centrifuge? i knew ahead of time what exactly MS is. i have an inner ear problem but i checked with my doctor before and told him what the rides were like and would i have any problem. he gave me the ok but he couldnt guarentee that nothnig would happen. i took a slight risk and i came out of it with a great experience. if i became ill it was my fault not WDW.

after reading about this recent tragedy my first reaction was not to ever ride this and not allow my DS ever ride MS again. after speaking with him we both decided that despite what happened we would probabally ride MS again. we didnt decide the ride was ok because of any statisticts, we decided it was ok because all of the times we rode it over the years we felt safe.

sanity and rational thinking should determine if you ever ride MS again. we all go to WDW to escape reality because they are so good at creating a world of illusion. the wonderful world of disney. when does everyone stop expecting everything to be done perfectly and have each and every base covered. this in a way is disney's fault. they have given us the happiest place on earth which we all have bought into and when something happens we are all shocked. you simply cannot design an attraction, especially a thrill-type one, of any sort that will take into account each and every possible medical scenario. i wonder how many people who are now calling for MS's closure were Also calling for another e-ride attraction for Epcot to help spice it up.

peter11435 you really make some very good points in your posts

peace to all but let us not forget to put those familes who suffered this tragedy in our prayers.

 

[Mickmse2002]

I don't think it all boils down to types of people: those who like the ride and those who don't. I personally like the ride, have ridden it many times and enjoyed each one with no ill affects. I do not necessarily think it should be shut down. I do believe that due to the high rate of complaint, illness and two deaths in a short period of time it should be reviewed/studied. Of course personal responsibility is very important in the equation, as it is in every decision a person makes in life.

 

[FigNewton]

Here is what this all boils down to... Half of us like M:S, half don't (I don't).. The half that likes M:S wouldn't care if 500 people died in 2 days after riding M:S.. They will still blame the riders, not the ride... Only half of the half that don't like M:S would call for the ride to shut, while the other half would continue to refuse to ride it....

That is both overly simplistic, and incredibly insulting. I don't care how much I enjoy a ride, if I thought it was actually dangerous I'd want it thoroughly studied.

No, actually, now that I think about it, for a ride I enjoy, if I actually thought it was dangerous, I'd be even MORE inclined to have it properly studied and analyzed. Because I'd like to continue riding it safely.

But I do not have those concerns about M:S...

 

[DancingBear]

No. These are two entirely different issues. M:S is a safe ride. Millions of guests have ridden M:S with no problems. Guests are warned against riding M:S with certain conditions the same way they have been warned against riding other Disney attractions with those conditions for decades.

Lots of people base jump with no problems either. Every activity has a level of risk; there's no such thing as a "safe" theme park attraction any more than there is a "safe" drive to the grocery store. My question is do we really know that M:S has the same level of risk as ToT, Big Thunder, etc.

People with pre-existing conditions have died on Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain, Body Wars and many other attractions.

First, is that really true? The only guy I know who died on Big Thunder was in the crash at DL. Second, eliminate anyone who died from reasons not related to the stresses of the attraction--someone might drop dead of a heart attack on Small World, but the M:S deaths clearly were triggered by the forces of the ride.

 

[mmiller711]

Let me start by saying I have not been on MS! Yes, chicken with high blood pressure. Ok, I use the blood pressure as an excuse but it is a good one. I wouldn't ride it anyway. My DD has been on it and she has a coment she would like to post....

I am the biggest baby (next to my mom) when it comes to riding thrill rides. I will not get on the ride in Norway because of the hill in it. Somehow I managed to drag myself on MS after the first death. I was scared and my heart was going a million beats a second (or so it felt). The ride was not bad at all! I didn't even have the horrible feeling I got after riding the Norway ride! My point is I can handle spinning and being tipped upside down but the second you throw a hill in I am done. Everyone is different and you need to be aware of what the ride is before you get on it. You better believe when I get in line the first thing I am asking is if it has a hill! Disney can't know everyone's medical issues it is up to the individual. You better belive I will ride again!

 

[DancingBear]

i often wonder how many of the people who required medcial assistance,not singling out the 2 people who tragically died, would have ridden MS if they knew it was a centrifuge?

Correct, so what if any additional responsibility does Disney have to notify folks. (They already reveal the workings during the preshow).

we didnt decide the ride was ok because of any statisticts, we decided it was ok because all of the times we rode it over the years we felt safe.

sanity and rational thinking should determine if you ever ride MS again.

Deciding to go because you "felt safe" doesn't sound like rational thinking to me.

we all go to WDW to escape reality because they are so good at creating a world of illusion. the wonderful world of disney. when does everyone stop expecting everything to be done perfectly and have each and every base covered. this in a way is disney's fault.

Right. Disney should take this into account in determining whether folks will self-select out of the attraction.

you simply cannot design an attraction, especially a thrill-type one, of any sort that will take into account each and every possible medical scenario.

Who suggested such a thing? It appears the questions is whether M:S is more dangerous than the list of other attractions (Space Mountain, Big Thunder, etc.) that nobody is trying to have closed.

i wonder how many people who are now calling for MS's closure were Also calling for another e-ride attraction for Epcot to help spice it up.

Just a note that "e-ride attraction" does not equal thrill ride.

 

[peter11435]

First, is that really true? The only guy I know who died on Big Thunder was in the crash at DL. Second, eliminate anyone who died from reasons not related to the stresses of the attraction--someone might drop dead of a heart attack on Small World, but the M:S deaths clearly were triggered by the forces of the ride.

If someone has a heart attack on Big Thunder mountain (which has happened numerous times) there is no way you can rule out it being triggered by the ride.

 

[peter11435]

so, the Orlando Sentinel made these numbers up? Then Disney should be suing them... And it only makes sense to be using numbers from a two year period since M:S has only been opened for 2 years... And in those 2 years, M:S has more complaints than any other WDW attraction during that same time frame... So, what is your point exactly???

I never said they made up the numbers they reported. But you also don't know what they choose to leave out. The Orlando Sentinel has a history of reporting with an angle and manipulating facts. That is why the majority of locals refer to the paper as the Orlando Slantinel.