Woman Dies After Riding "Mission: Space"

[YoHo]

Didn't you know there are only two options, you either love everying Disney has ever done, or you hate the company and everything it's done. There is no middle ground and God forbid you try to look at things honestly.

The honest truth is that the company's current and most recent managment has little to nothing invested emotionally in Disney. It's just a company, an important company, that they run.

That doesn't make them evil, but it sure doesn't make them Disney either.

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

I don't feel that way about Bob Iger.... I think he knows how important Disney is... I still expect big things from him, at least, in the short term... Hopefully, long term, he is better than Eisner... Who showed everything Disney was not

 

[YoHo]

What has he done or said to make you feel that way?

The only thing I can think of is his comments at Hong kong Disney.

Of course, his problem is that he is basically nothing. he doesn't seem to have any thoughts one way or another. And most of the people under him came from Eisner.

Certainly nothing has happened yet to make me think that Pixar is having a positive influence. They so far seem to be protecting their own.

 

[MJMcBride]

Didn't you know there are only two options, you either love everying Disney has ever done, or you hate the company and everything it's done. There is no middle ground and God forbid you try to look at things honestly.

If you want to be honest, be honest. I can't recall you saying 1 decent thing that Disney has done over the last 10 to 15 years.

 

[YoHo]

Honesty is now admitting something I don't believe?

Why do I have to admit that Disney did something great in the last 15 years if I can substantiate why I feel otherwise? That request on your part is stupid anyway, because I've repeatedly praised the Indy ride built 10 years ago, so your request is totally meaningless on all fronts.

 

[peter11435]

Honesty is now admitting something I don't believe?

The problem is that you are implying that we are not being honest if we disagree with your negative view of the WDC.

 

[annie1995]

I've repeatedly praised the Indy ride built 10 years ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a show and not a ride??!!

 

[crusader]

That request on your part is stupid anyway, because I've repeatedly praised the Indy ride built 10 years ago, so your request is totally meaningless on all fronts.

And why is that? Particularly in this thread, I would have hoped at the very least the truth about the many concerns which plagued Indy in the past would be reflected upon.

Let me refresh your apparent momentary lapse in memory................

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/features/story.asp?id=2278

6/21/2001

Eye Drive

Head games

By Jim Hill

Can a thrill ride be too thrilling?

That’s what many industry observers are wondering after the death of 28-year-old Pearl Santos. Earlier this month, the Fontana, Calif., woman was found slumped in her seat after having ridden "Goliath," a roller coaster that’s been operating at Six Flags Magic Mountain in Valencia, Calif., since February 2000.

A preliminary coroner's investigation suggests Santos’ death may have been caused by the rupturing of a pre-existing aneurysm. The report goes on to state it’s possible the rupture may have been brought on by the stresses Pearl was exposed to while riding "Goliath," a 26-story-tall steel coaster that reaches speeds of 85 miles per hour during its three-minute-long run.

ADVERTISEMENTOf course, Six Flags’ PR staff insists their Magic Mountain attraction is safe and there’s "no evidence that the triggering stress Ms. Santos might have been experienced at [our] amusement park was significantly different than any other common stressful events."

It's easy to understand why they moved so quickly to protect the reputation of the park, which Six Flags promotes as "the Xtreme Park," home to "More Roller Coasters Than Anywhere Else on the Planet!" Revenue will dry up if the public stops coming because it perceives the park’s attractions aren't safe.

And the rest of the theme-park industry is watching what happens. Particularly the Walt Disney Co., which currently finds itself embroiled in its own ugly injury debacle.

In a civil case currently on trial in Los Angeles Superior Court, former San Diego resident Deborah Bynum claims she suffered a brain hemorrhage after riding Disneyland’s "Indiana Jones Adventure" back in November 1998. Disney insists that millions of people ride this attraction every year and very few are seriously injured.

Or at least that’s what they used to say. But papers filed by the Mouse earlier this month tell a different story. They reveal that some 313 people have claimed neck and back injuries as a result of this same ride. Disney also named eight people who reported brain-bleed injuries similar to Bynum’s after riding Disney attractions. Seven of these allegedly occurred at Disneyland, the eighth at an unnamed Disney World park.

Mind you, the Mouse didn't give up this info willingly. Judge Madeline Flier had to impose a $2,500 fine and publicly accuse the Disney Co. of "willful bad faith" before Mickey coughed up the records. Disney’s legal staff said it was just computer coding errors -- not an attempt at stonewalling -- that prevented the corporation from passing along the appropriate papers to the court.

That explanation might be easier to swallow if this was the first time Mickey had been fined for failing to turn over documents in a timely manner. But a similar suit was filed in 1996 on behalf of Zipora Jacob, who claimed "Indiana Jones" left her with a torn brain stem in July 1995. In June 1999, the two parties reached a confidential settlement -- but not before Disney was whacked with $7,050 in fines for failing to turn over company records the court had requested.

Why did Disney drag its heels? Is "Indiana Jones" really unsafe? Millions of people have ridden this Adventureland attraction without injury since it opened in February 1995. The ride -- which recreates a rough Jeep trek, full of sudden stops, sharp swerves and drops -- is one of Disneyland’s most popular.

But Disney apparently has lost its enthusiasm for the attraction. Though the corporation had once announced that it intended to build "Indiana Jones" clones at all of its theme parks (indeed, if Disney's Imagineers had stuck with their plan, Disney/MGM Studios would have had its own Indiana Jones land), once word about the injuries reached Burbank, Disney put these plans on hold.

When Disney’s enhanced-motion vehicles finally rolled into Orlando in the spring of 1998 on what is now called "Dinosaur -- The Ride" at Animal Kingdom, it was in a watered-down format. Mind you, "Dinosaur" is still rough. But not as rough as "Indiana Jones."

For now, the only place Disney dares to build another "Indiana Jones" ride is Japan, where Disney’s lawyers suggest the local citizenry hasn’t yet embraced America’s lawsuit-happy mentality.

Still, it's worth noting that Tokyo’s "Indiana Jones" ride -- intended to be one of the signature attractions of Tokyo DisneySea when the $3 billion park opens in September -- is now called "The Temple of the Crystal Skull." And while it's been reported that Disney has made numerous adjustments to increase rider safety, one has to wonder: Will this include issuing helmets to all who board?

Wouldn't want to crack your head on the Crystal Skull, would you?

 

[peter11435]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a show and not a ride??!!

Not the one in California.

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

What has he done or said to make you feel that way?

The only thing I can think of is his comments at Hong kong Disney.

Of course, his problem is that he is basically nothing. he doesn't seem to have any thoughts one way or another. And most of the people under him came from Eisner.

Certainly nothing has happened yet to make me think that Pixar is having a positive influence. They so far seem to be protecting their own.

Considerng he has only been on the job for 6-7 months, what has be done that makes you think otherwise????

He bought Pixar... Eisner killed the Disney/Pixar relationship... Iger not only briought them together, be bought them out.... Eisner killed other relationships... Iger seems to be on the verge of restoring those relationships (George Lucas, etc...)... Cannot blame Iger for the mess Eisner left him... Give credit to Iger for trying to clean up Eisner's mess...

Iger seems to know the core strenghts of Disney, what made Disney great.. Animation... He did say he wants to restore Disney to the top of the animation world... Buying Pixar, getting John Lassetter on board is a great start.... He also seems to understand the best thing for them to do is fix the issues in the U.S. parks, not build more.. Fix what they already have... That is better than building excess that isn't needed..... Why build a 5th park in WDW when MGM, AK, Epcot, and MK too all need some TLC?? Iger seems to know that... Not to mention what he has done with ABC and technology....

That is why I feel confident about Iger and his leadership.....

 

[YoHo]

The problem is that you are implying that we are not being honest if we disagree with your negative view of the WDC.

NO, I asked for honesty in the assessment of what I've written. All I get is reactionary. All I get is "No it isn't" (Yes it IS!)

 

[YoHo]

Considerng he has only been on the job for 6-7 months, what has be done that makes you think otherwise????

.....

It's not what he has or hasn't done in the past 7 months, its hic completely useless career prior to that. The only thing he managed to do consistantly at ABC is kill or sell good programing. His previous expereince is....lacking.



And Crusader, now it's your turn to be honest. You haven't been participating in this conversation at all so what you hope is irrelevent.


Let's be serious for a moment though, you've troted out a 5 year old Jim Hill piece. Indy is still running. I don't know what it's complaint rate is today, but if it's as bad as suggested, then they need to examine that ride as well.

And there still haven't been any deaths. Though brain stem injury doesn't sound good. Dinosaur was toned down, because they wanted to lower the height requirment or so the press releases at the time indicated. And they did build the Ride in Tokyo. If it is as dangerous as suggested, then my opinion of the Disney company is even worse, because they are willing to endanger the Japanese simply, because they aren't as likely to sue.



So tell me again what your point was?

 

[crusader]

My point?

Simple.

After reading once again, the voice of discontent with the Walt Disney Company and repeat dismissals of postings as stupid, from a veteran touting the Indy ride as his personal measurement of what a Disney attraction of today should represent -

I found it difficult to reconcile, given that ride has been the subject of litigation for years due to injury.

However, to now disengage that fact in comparison to the M:S tragedy, by making a completely false statement

And there still haven't been any deaths.

which I can HONESTLY not believe a veteran of your magnitude would even attempt to use as a basis, having done the slightest bit of research on the topic, which would have clearly led to the facts -

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/revpub/B163651.DOC

In June 2000, Cristina Moreno, a young woman from Spain on her honeymoon, sustained a serious brain injury while riding the Indiana Jones attraction at the Disneyland theme park in Anaheim. She died a little over two months later.

I felt the need to set the record straight.

Carry on.

 

[cflood78]

In 2004:

"Compacts had a fatality rate of 17.76 per 100,000 vehicles in 2004, followed by compact pickup trucks with 16.87 and subcompact vehicles with 16.85, according to a report Monday by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Large vans had the lowest rate, 9.34, while pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles had rates of about 15 deaths" NHTSA

So if the safest group is large vans at 9.34 deaths per 100,000 vehicles in 2004; that equates to 560 deaths per 6 million vehicles per year.

For the sake of this arguement we will assume MS caused these two deaths even though no correlation has or can be proven at this time.

If we estimate total riders of MS at 12 million since it opened you have 2 deaths in about two years of operation. Thats an average of one death per six million riders, or one per year. Compared to the rate above for the safest vehicle class of 560 deaths per 6 million vehicles, it is 560 times safer to ride Mission Space than to ride in a large van.

That being the case, it is silly to argue to shut down the ride with this kind of fatality rate. I say leave it be. People take risks every day, without seeing the numbers, I would guess that more children and people die at a higher rate in bathtubs than on this ride, and I dont think we are going to remove bathtubs from our homes anytime soon.

 

[YoHo]

My point?

Simple.

After reading once again, the voice of discontent with the Walt Disney Company and repeat dismissals of postings as stupid, from a veteran touting the Indy ride as his personal measurement of what a Disney attraction of today should represent -

I found it difficult to reconcile, given that ride has been the subject of litigation for years due to injury.

However, to now disengage that fact in comparison to the M:S tragedy, by making a completely false statement

which I can HONESTLY not believe a veteran of your magnitude would even attempt to use as a basis, having done the slightest bit of research on the topic, which would have clearly led to the facts -

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/revpub/B163651.DOC


I felt the need to set the record straight.

Carry on.

Or the Short version, You had no point other then to attempt to knock me down a notch.

That's fine.

I'll retract the no death comment. No, I didn't do any research, because I'm honestly surprised a bigger deal wasn't made of it. Of course, it begs the question of how many deaths have occured and what caused that person to react so much worse then others that have ridden the ride. Or do you have other examples of similar deaths?


And in either case, what you are capable of reconciling isn't really the question. If Indy has those kinds of issues, then it needs to be examined further. If you feel that is the case, then continue presenting evidence, but I'd prefer coroner and news reports over Lexis Nexis grabs. I'm sure you could find examples of litigation over every ride in WDW. That doesn't mean their all equally deserving of review.
Similar to the way that the dismissal of the insufficent testing charge doesn't equate to sufficent and compitent testing having been done.

 

[DancingBear]

In 2004:

"Compacts had a fatality rate of 17.76 per 100,000 vehicles in 2004, followed by compact pickup trucks with 16.87 and subcompact vehicles with 16.85, according to a report Monday by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Large vans had the lowest rate, 9.34, while pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles had rates of about 15 deaths" NHTSA

So if the safest group is large vans at 9.34 deaths per 100,000 vehicles in 2004; that equates to 560 deaths per 6 million vehicles per year.

For the sake of this arguement we will assume MS caused these two deaths even though no correlation has or can be proven at this time.

If we estimate total riders of MS at 12 million since it opened you have 2 deaths in about two years of operation. Thats an average of one death per six million riders, or one per year. Compared to the rate above for the safest vehicle class of 560 deaths per 6 million vehicles, it is 560 times safer to ride Mission Space than to ride in a large van.

That being the case, it is silly to argue to shut down the ride with this kind of fatality rate. I say leave it be. People take risks every day, without seeing the numbers, I would guess that more children and people die at a higher rate in bathtubs than on this ride, and I dont think we are going to remove bathtubs from our homes anytime soon.

Each ride on M:S is about 4 minutes. Please adjust your calculations to reflect the death rate per every 4 minutes of vehicle driving time.

100,000 vehicles times 8,000 miles per year equals 800,000,000 miles. Assume (generously) an average speed of 50 mph, that's 16,000,000 hours of driving, or 960,000,000 minutes, or 240,000,000 ride equivalents per year per 100,000 vehicles (this assumes just one rider per vehicle).

2 people have died on M:S in 12,000,000 rides. That equates to 40 deaths in 240,000,000 rides (compared to the approx. 17 in your statistics for vehicle deaths).

Or, assume conservatively that just 100 million baths and showers are taken in the U.S. every day (which I think is low). If 500 people die annually in baths and showers (probably less, but if you can find better numbers, let's have them), that one death for each 73 million showers and baths.

 

[Bstanley]

If we estimate total riders of MS at 12 million since it opened you have 2 deaths in about two years of operation. Thats an average of one death per six million riders, or one per year. Compared to the rate above for the safest vehicle class of 560 deaths per 6 million vehicles, it is 560 times safer to ride Mission Space than to ride in a large van.

And once again we see demonstrated the adage that there are lies, damn lies and statistics. I wonder what percentage of these deaths occurred while the vehicle was operating within normal parameters? I mean versus being involved in a fiery head-on 60g impact with a drunk in a '78 Impala?

I am surprised that no one has pointed out that being on Mission Space is substantially safer than literally hundreds of other activites like watching TV or sleeping, or eating a hamburger. Given that there are approx. 1.5 Million people who experience heart attacks in a given year in the US (about half of those are fatal) and given that there are about 300,000,000 folks in the US - and I can't imagine that there are more than say 50,000,000 visitors to the US in a given year - that means that for every 467 (350,000,000/750,000) people who rode Mission Space we should have expected to see 1 fatal heart attack!! And in fact we have only seen - maybe - 1.

Personally I intend to try to get a substantial government grant to study the unbelievably therapeutic effects of Disney Attractions - I mean Mission Space is quite remarkable in lowering the heart attack morbidity rate from 1 in 500 to 1 in 12,000,000. But really - think about The Haunted Mansion - it has probably saved a hundred million, and is still going strong!

 

[annie1995]

Ok, how long is this ridiculous topic going to go on for. This is getting crazy! No one is ever going to totally agree on this topic. Some like MS, some don't. Disney will probably do nothing to change the ride. I don't care. I won't ride it. My family won't ride it. It's as simple as that. People who are against it stay off it. People who like it, ride it. It's as simple as that. If you choose to ride it, or put your child on it, don't come crying to Disney if something unforseen happens.(Unless it is definately ride related). So why doesn't everyone agree to disagree??!!

 

[YoHo]

So why doesn't everyone agree to disagree??!!

Because This is a discussion board and I for one like to have meaningful discussion.

 

[MJMcBride]

So why doesn't everyone agree to disagree??!!

I have to disagree with this statement.