Woman banned for bad tipping

[LoraJ]

My bet is that there is more to the story. If the chefs didn't want to serve her, there is a problem. While our chefs knew a few of the regular customers, they never knew them enough to really form an opinion. I have worked in three restaurants and never had a chef say they didn't want to serve a customer.

I have waited in three restaurants, and it is no cake walk. The others are right, we have to report a percentage of or sales to the IRS as tips. The last restaurant I worked at had a bar, I had to tip out 1% of my sales to the bartender at the end of every shift, regardless of whether or not my tables ordered any alcohol. On busy nights when we had a busser, I had to tip out 1% of my tips to the busser as well. So when people don't tip, not only am I reporting the 8% of your sale to the IRS as income, I am paying my own money to the busser and barteder. This is one reason I try to be a good tipper.

I've had regulars that did not tip well, particularly when I worked at Denny's. But never did we try to fire a customer for not tipping. That is why I think there has to be more to the story and the restaurant is being tight lipped for liability reasons.

the restaurant in question is one of those Japanese restaurants where they cook at the table and it becomes like a show. So the chef would be more familiar with the patrons than a regular restaurant. Also, the woman and her friends would most likely be seated with others and the others probably tipped normally indicating service was fine. She had to have been tipping less than 10%. Perhaps she tipped $1 a person. Whatever it was, the staff got tired of doing the song and dance for her.

 

[Swimnoid]

Well, back to Kanpai....I dont think the story has hurt them any. I drove by there tonight after 9 pm and they were packed! Not a parking spot left in the lot.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

the restaurant in question is one of those Japanese restaurants where they cook at the table and it becomes like a show. So the chef would be more familiar with the patrons than a regular restaurant. Also, the woman and her friends would most likely be seated with others and the others probably tipped normally indicating service was fine. She had to have been tipping less than 10%. Perhaps she tipped $1 a person. Whatever it was, the staff got tired of doing the song and dance for her.

That would explain why the chefs know who she is! Thanks for that clarification.

 

[smidgy]

I hear you there. There is also the tendency to think that Libertarians don't have opinions. I have plenty, all of which I am not afraid to share. Some are popular, some are not. I just don't think everyone has to have the same opinion. If you are obeying the law I have no problem with you raising you kids how you see fit, eating what you feel like eating, taking or not taking the prescription drugs you do or don't want to take, or anything else. Oh, and I don't care what Tiger Woods, Brittany Spears, Michael Jordan, David Letterman, or anyone else does in their private lives. My same do what you want attitude extends to celebrities.

firedancer.. while it seems like you and I more often disagree than agree, I TOTALLY agree with this! and I love intellectual debates (as long as everyone is civil). how boring would life be if we were all clones.

 

[kafitty]

As far as the IRS goes, tipping is definitely not voluntary. Restaurants must report server's sales to Uncle Sam and every server is legally bound to pay a percentage of assumed tips in taxes to the government. It used to be around 9% when I was waiting tables in college in the early 90's.

Sadly, the overwhelming majority of customers don't realize this. When you don't tip a server, you just don't stiff them their gratuity, you also force them to pay a percentage of their own cash out of pocket to the IRS to cover the difference. I can't imagine any diner considering that a fair punishment for forgetting a side of fries.

What most people should do instead of stiffing their servers is to pay the server a minimal tip (say 15%), grow a pair, and on the way out, ask to speak with management and express your displeasure. It's the only way to truly solve a "poor service" problem.

A+++++ excellent post, especially that last bit. If you're having a problem - TELL SOMEONE. i would much rather FIX IT than have you leaving my restaurant with a bad experience. Bad business for them is bad business for me, too!!

I don't think I'm understanding here. If the servers have to report their assumed tips what would it matter if they were tipped less? They're only being taxed on what they've actually been tipped, yes? Am I misunderstanding.

We have to report ALL tips. The IRS knows we're getting an average of 15-20%, but they also know that people are cheap and stuff happens (i mean, people stiff them all the time! ) But we MUST have at least 8% or 9% or we WILL get audited, no matter what.

Don't the servers also have to report to the management their total tips for the night? It was my understanding that the restaurant was required to bring the server's wage up to minimum wage if the server's tips didn't total up to enough to equal minimum wage.

oh that's rich.

(okay, some placed DO do that. But the majority of them, OHHH HECK NO)

Ok ladies, I'm still confused! Please don't make fun of me!

So, the IRS automatically taxes the server 9% of each table they've served. Regardless of how much they were in actuality tipped, correct? Then what is the purpose of reporting their tips to the IRS at all? If they're already taxed that 9%, why do they have to report anything they've received over that? Is it just one of those things that IRS does that doesn't make any sense, to ensure they still get their money?

The IRS knows we're making more than 9% - they want to tax us on all of the money we make, just like everyone else. But yeah...you can kind of get away with not claiming it all. (Not that i ever not claim my full tips... ....) But if you claim less than that 9%, then they KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're not claiming everything.

 

[FireDancer]

firedancer.. while it seems like you and I more often disagree than agree, I TOTALLY agree with this! and I love intellectual debates (as long as everyone is civil). how boring would life be if we were all clones.

I'll drink to that

 

[smidgy]

Don't the servers also have to report to the management their total tips for the night? It was my understanding that the restaurant was required to bring the server's wage up to minimum wage if the server's tips didn't total up to enough to equal minimum wage.

this a a funny misnomer. I suppose there is a strange formula for this (I ahve no idea how the IRS could figure it out, and then force the restaurant owners to pay us more. (not that the owners could afford to anyway, without going out of business, with their overhead, matching our social security, etc. believe me they are not "raking in the money" either. It's not like they are ridh "overlords', "simon Legrees", with us being "indentured servants")
anyway, that "formula" would a "minimum wage" over ALL the hours we work.including the slow nights, which we all have to take a turn at (mondays, sunday nights, etc). the early hours ... some of us come in at 4 pm, even if we have 1 or 2 tables until 6 or 7pm. or the later shift, the 1 or 2 tables there after 10 pm. what do we do in that time? the slow times? clean, fold napkins, fill dressing cups, shine silverware, clean, vacuum, refill salt and pepper shakers, refill sugar dispensers, clean. etc. etc.
it might (or might not) even out. if it were ever really enforced, I would NOT want to work this job for minimum wage. servers expect to make more than minimum wage..
we put up with the slow times, with the expectation that we will make more during the "rush" times. it's just the way the industry works.
some of us are more willing than others to "give above and beyond", both with our customers, and with the "scut" work (as is in any business).
the better tipping customers tend to "request" the better servers. (as is their right). I feel silly when it's not my turn in the rotation, but my "regulars" come in. sorry, they like me. they know that I know what they like. they treat me well, I treat them well. I ask how their grandaughter did in the spelling bee, how are they feeling after that surgery I knew they were having, I know that they want bleu cheese stuffed olives in their martinins and have their drinks ready for them, and if their prime rib isn't rare enough, I'll tell the cook. "no this isn't good, give me a better one".
the less time they have to explain their "idiosynchrosies" to me (cause I already know) the more time I have to "chit chat" with them, which they expect.
and I will give give the same excellent service to other, new customers. but, repeat customers, who complain constantly about trivial issues and repeatedly tip poorly, will get "standard" service.
by the way, that 6top I spoke of earlier, who took up all of my time, raved about my service, and tipped me a bit less than 10%? One of my regular families came in at the same time, but I could NOT take them, as it would not be fair to them, OR the 6Top. (I also had other customers). so I gave up on my ensured 25% from my regulars, in order to give good service to the 6top, and I KNEW I couldn't wait on my regular family as they needed, so I gave them to another server, (the tip from the regulars would have been much more than the 10% from the 6 top, that took all my time)
I do NOT "table scarf". I don't grab all the tables i can, and then give poor service. I knew my regulars would have been patient and wiated for me, but then NEITHER table would have received proper service. and I didn't add the 18% on the bigger table. and I was stiffed.

not that they weren't nice people... they just didn't know any better, for whatever reason. thus..the automatic 18% for larger partes.
as much as I love my job, and love interacting with and taking care of the people, I still need to pay my bills.

 

[kaytieeldr]

What most people should do instead of stiffing their servers is to pay the server a minimal tip (say 15%), grow a pair, and on the way out, ask to speak with management and express your displeasure.

No.
What diners SHOULD do when experiencing poor service is, talk to management WHILE IT'S OCCURRING and give the restaurant (a) the awareness that a problem exists and (b) the opportunity to rectify it.

Why be miserable and resentful throughout the meal? Why not be proactive instead of reactive?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Maybe if you consistently report less than 9%, you really suck as a server and need to find something else to do?

Sigh. No. It's based on a number of factors, including, but not limited to, the government's awareness that not everybody tips at the standard 15%-20% level (or at all) and that servers have to "tip out" to other staffers. Of the 15% tip, yeah, it's reasonable that they end up with only 8% to 10% of the check.

 

[kaytieeldr]

firedancer.. while it seems like you and I more often disagree than agree, I TOTALLY agree with this! and I love intellectual debates (as long as everyone is civil). how boring would life be if we were all clones.

If you ever have the chance, see the Twilight Zone episode titled, "Number Seventeen Looks Just Like Me".

 

[mitchfishguard]

"expected" and "compulsory" are not synonyms. never said they were. in this society, tips are expected. who else would take a job for that pay if they weren't expected?

some people just plain don't want to tip. If, as you say, people stop tipping altogether, it will not hurt me. It will hurt everyone, because there will be no more nice restaurants, only counter service. If that's the way society goes, so be it. once tipping stops, there will be no servers.

no one is "emotionally blackmailed" to tip. not talking emotions, just telling people the facts.. ie, how servers are paid.
I am not "going around telling people to pay a big tip, just cause I say so." I'm, educating people on reasonable tip amounts, for decent service. many people obviously are unaware. restaurant owners, servers, and customers all expect these tipping practices to take place, under normal curcumstances. the expected norm is 15-20%.
you don't HAVE to tip this. it is, however, expected.
(and many restaurants add a surcharge of 18%, including disney, for parties of 6 or more, for the reasons I listed in an above post. in those cases, yes, it IS compulsory, unless there is a real problem with service. in that case, see the manager.)

without patronising you, that is the most polite, educational and mature post i have ever read and ill bet youve done more to convince people to do the right thing because you have said it such a way that is the complete opposite of what i was basically accusing you of. i am humbled and impressed.

 

[smidgy]

hubby and I have been availing ourselves of our libraries dvds. (he likes Mash) but we get twilight zone a lot) with my work hours, its hard to find time to watch together, but I'll be sure to check this one out.. thanks!

 

[smidgy]

without patronising you, that is the most polite, educational and mature post i have ever read and ill bet youve done more to convince people to do the right thing because you have said it such a way that is the complete opposite of what i was basically accusing you of. i am humbled and impressed.

this post is an example of the reason I keep coming back to discussion boards, for every "pot stirrer" there are reasonable people, who just want to discuss, debate, in a friendly way. (like, us late-night people, who have no one else to talk to at these wee hours,)
Ithank you, mitch. I have oftentimes myself, either changed my opinion due to these boards, or agreed to disagree,
your response has both humbled and impresed me, also!

 

[mitchfishguard]

my pleasure ,although i cant join you as a "late-night poster" !!!! its 10 30 a.m. here!!!!!!!!

 

[smidgy]

where the heck are you?

 

[smidgy]

10:30 am? oh boy. I hate doing math at this hour! I know I am babysitting my granddaughter tomorrow, though.
which would be today, for you?

I am a FIEND for time travel books... I'm SUCH a dork!

 

[smidgy]

ok, since you're into tomorrow before me, does kaylee need her diaper changed?

 

[smidgy]

ok, I hate when people hijack a thread, but...
the time thing....(asking mitch if kaylie needed a diaper change)

I waitressed at a bar/restaurant that was next to a psychic/mind reader shop. she would call to order take out.. I would take her order, she would ask "when will that be ready?" (you know where this is going)
I would say .. "Don't you know?!"

she hated me.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Personally, I prefer counter service to table service. And despite their being tip jars on just about every counter, I practically never tip for counter service.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

No.
What diners SHOULD do when experiencing poor service is, talk to management WHILE IT'S OCCURRING and give the restaurant (a) the awareness that a problem exists and (b) the opportunity to rectify it.

Why be miserable and resentful throughout the meal? Why not be proactive instead of reactive?

While complaining to management during your meal is good in theory, I prefer my meal sans spit, thank you very much. That's why I complain to management on the way out.