Woman banned for bad tipping

[chobie]

I think society as a whole has determined 18% gratuity to be appropriate. 20-25% is considered generous. However, I'm certainly not the spokesperson for the service industry. I'm just pointing out that in looking at it's tax policies, the IRS does not see tipping as voluntary. AFAIC, a far better way to deal with poor service is to complain to management and have the server reprimanded.

Exactly, also it might not be the server's fault -- understaffed or the kitchen not getting food out in a timely manner or other problems in running the restaurant that the manager can fix if he/she is alerted there is a problem.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Exactly, also it might not be the server's fault -- understaffed or the kitchen not getting food out in a timely manner or other problems in running the restaurant that the manager can fix if he/she is alerted there is a problem.

Been there, done that, paid for college, wouldn't do it again for a million dollars.

 

[OceanAnnie]

What...assuming the worst in people? I'm sensing a lot of anger at the restaurant service industry from you and merryweather20. What gives?

No. Not at all. Just a different point of view. It makes sense that the IRS doesn't consider tipping mandatory. (Yes. I tip.) A gratuity is something given voluntarily.

 

[merryweather20]

There is some truth to the bolded statement, but in the end many servers from days of old suffered by having very little in social security because they did not report tips.

BTW, every tip made on a credit card (which is the majority these days) is reported, so servers are reporting much more than 9%, it is probably much closer to what they are actually receiving especially when you figure they have to tip out. At lease it was for me 15+ years ago.

So there is only some truth, but they are "suffering"? Its all true and there are of course consequences for doing things illegally, including tax evasion.

What...assuming the worst in people? I'm sensing a lot of anger at the restaurant service industry from you and merryweather20. What gives?

You're sensing alot of anger because I explained the IRS's policy to you and OceanAnnie agreed

I'm not assuming anything, this is a policy they picked up after many, many, many cost of living audits.

 

[lisalisalisa]

We are from the UK and I have always been aware that you should tip in restaurants in the US and it is quite common here now anyway. What I really hate is when I am given crappy service because it is assumed that we will not tip. At one restaurant the waitress wrote in huge letters on the bill that a 15% tip (this was in 2001) was expected. I wrote in equally huge letters I KNOW. At another restaurant the server was very short with us and neglected us for the most part. When he did finally get to us I told him that we normally tip 20% - how much did he think that he deserved!!! We are off to the states again in August and 20% is the figure that I have budgeted for.

I can see why the assumption is made as I visited New York in 2000 with a friend who did not 'believe' in tipping. I ended up paying her share of the tip as well as mine. Never again!!

 

[chobie]

Been there, done that, paid for college, wouldn't do it again for a million dollars.

Me neither. It's hard work and there are too many people who just plain nasty to servers.

 

[OceanAnnie]

We are from the UK and I have always been aware that you should tip in restaurants in the US and it is quite common here now anyway. What I really hate is when I am given crappy service because it is assumed that we will not tip. At one restaurant the waitress wrote in huge letters on the bill that a 15% tip (this was in 2001) was expected. I wrote in equally huge letters I KNOW. At another restaurant the server was very short with us and neglected us for the most part. When he did finally get to us I told him that we normally tip 20% - how much did he think that he deserved!!! We are off to the states again in August and 20% is the figure that I have budgeted for.

I can see why the assumption is made as I visited New York in 2000 with a friend who did not 'believe' in tipping. I ended up paying her share of the tip as well as mine. Never again!!

What was his reply?

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Ok ladies, I'm still confused! Please don't make fun of me!

So, the IRS automatically taxes the server 9% of each table they've served. Regardless of how much they were in actuality tipped, correct? Then what is the purpose of reporting their tips to the IRS at all? If they're already taxed that 9%, why do they have to report anything they've received over that? Is it just one of those things that IRS does that doesn't make any sense, to ensure they still get their money?

 

[FireDancer]

gratuity is expected.

I learned around the age of 5 that everything I expect I am not guaranteed nor will I ultimately get. Tis life.

As far as the IRS goes, tipping is definitely not voluntary. Restaurants must report server's sales to Uncle Sam and every server is legally bound to pay a percentage of assumed tips in taxes to the government. It used to be around 9% when I was waiting tables in college in the early 90's.

Sadly, the overwhelming majority of customers don't realize this. When you don't tip a server, you just don't stiff them their gratuity, you also force them to pay a percentage of their own cash out of pocket to the IRS to cover the difference. I can't imagine any diner considering that a fair punishment for forgetting a side of fries.

What most people should do instead of stiffing their servers is to pay the server a minimal tip (say 15%), grow a pair, and on the way out, ask to speak with management and express your displeasure. It's the only way to truly solve a "poor service" problem.

The under 15% tips that are assumed will be offset by the over 15% tips that are not reported. I know a bartender on a resort island who makes over 100K in tips and reports the minimums or not much more. I'm sure this is not an isolated incident.

ETA: I do tip. What I tip depends on my dining experience. I do so because I choose to, not because I have to. The only things any of us have to do are mandated by law. I have yet to see a law making gratuity compulsory. The very definition of gratuity would seem to preclude this.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

I learned around the age of 5 that everything I expect I am not guaranteed not will I ultimately get. Tis life.

The under 15% tips that are assumed will be offset by the over 15% tips that are not reported. I know a bartender on a resort island who makes over 100K in tips and reports the minimums or not much more. I'm sure this is not an isolated incident.

ETA: I do tip. What I tip depends on my dining experience. I do so because I choose to, not because I have to. The only things any of us have to do are mandated by law. I have yet to see a law making gratuity compulsory. The very definition of gratuity would seem to preclude this.

Well, you sure sound like a libertarian! Truth be told, I agree with what you're saying. Particulary the definition of gratuitiy! DH and I often discuss this whole issue of tipping. We both regularly tip. However, there seems to be an underlying guilt associated with it. As in you're a bad person if you don't tip enough or at all. I said earlier in the thread, I think it's actually more beneficial to let the manager know if your server gave you wonderful service as well as leaving a nice tip. But I certainly don't want to feel like I'm being told to tip.

 

[FoundMyPrince]

]I think society as a whole has determined 18% gratuity to be appropriate. 20-25% is considered generous.[/B] However, I'm certainly not the spokesperson for the service industry. I'm just pointing out that in looking at it's tax policies, the IRS does not see tipping as voluntary. AFAIC, a far better way to deal with poor service is to complain to management and have the server reprimanded.

I think the DIS has determined that, not "society as a whole".

 

[MrsPete]

This woman is ignoring a basic fact of dining out:

It's stupid to piss off a cook or a wait staff person. They're handling your food! Do you really want to eat something prepared or handled by someone who has reason to dislike you?

 

[FireDancer]

well, you sure sound like a libertarian!

I have no interest in telling people how to live their lives and have no interest in being told how to live mine.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

I have no interest in telling people how to live their lives and have no interest in being told how to live mine.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet that you're not too popular here on the dis then! Seriously, I do agree to some extent. That's a hard pill for some to swallow though...not telling people how to live their life and in return not wanting to be told how to live yours. DH has some libertarian tendancies and his philosophy is that he just wants to live his life and not cause any trouble. Easy to say, hard to put into practice, right? People get very up in arms over the most trivial of things and the dis is a perfect forum for that!

Threads like these are always very interesting to read. It provides a glimpse into what people think/how they live their lives. I do love to hear the differing opinions. If I really wanted to stir the pot, I could just say that I never tip, it's not my responsibility to pay for someone elses wages and stop making me feel guilty about it! I don't think that but imagine the comments that would follow.

 

[Plannin'Shannon]

I learned around the age of 5 that everything I expect I am not guaranteed not will I ultimately get. Tis life.



The under 15% tips that are assumed will be offset by the over 15% tips that are not reported. I know a bartender on a resort island who makes over 100K in tips and reports the minimums or not much more. I'm sure this is not an isolated incident.

ETA: I do tip. What I tip depends on my dining experience. I do so because I choose to, not because I have to. The only things any of us have to do are mandated by law. I have yet to see a law making gratuity compulsory. The very definition of gratuity would seem to preclude this.

 

[FireDancer]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet that you're not too popular here on the dis then! Seriously, I do agree to some extent. That's a hard pill for some to swallow though...not telling people how to live their life and in return not wanting to be told how to live yours. DH has some libertarian tendancies and his philosophy is that he just wants to live his life and not cause any trouble. Easy to say, hard to put into practice, right? People get very up in arms over the most trivial of things and the dis is a perfect forum for that!

Threads like these are always very interesting to read. It provides a glimpse into what people think/how they live their lives. I do love to hear the differing opinions. If I really wanted to stir the pot, I could just say that I never tip, it's not my responsibility to pay for someone elses wages and stop making me feel guilty about it! I don't think that but imagine the comments that would follow.

I hear you there. There is also the tendency to think that Libertarians don't have opinions. I have plenty, all of which I am not afraid to share. Some are popular, some are not. I just don't think everyone has to have the same opinion. If you are obeying the law I have no problem with you raising you kids how you see fit, eating what you feel like eating, taking or not taking the prescription drugs you do or don't want to take, or anything else. Oh, and I don't care what Tiger Woods, Brittany Spears, Michael Jordan, David Letterman, or anyone else does in their private lives. My same do what you want attitude extends to celebrities.

 

[Minnie]

There is never a reason not to tip. What was the lady who used to post about her demands for servers. I think it was spring or something I wonder if this could have been her

Nope disagree with this one... Tipping is definitely optional; I tend to tip as I know how hard the job is however, if the server is rude or other problems exist I make the choice whether or not to tip

This story is really not doing the restaurant any favors.... In this economy definitely the wrong "reason" to give for not allowing service....

 

[FireDancer]

Double Post...oops

 

[DeniseinNS]

If a server shows a bill totaling $100.00, the government automatically taxes them on $9.00 of that total, whether they were tipped or not. If you didn't tip them, they not only made no money on your table, but they also had to pay around $3.00 out of pocket for the pleasure.

That's why I said that the IRS doesn't consider tipping voluntary.

At the end of every shift, each server reports gross sales to the restaurant manager. The restaurant reports those sales to the IRS and the IRS assumes that, at a minimum, the server made 9% tips on those sales and taxes those servers on those assumed tips. If I had $1000 in sales for a shift and made zero money in tips, I would owe the IRS around $30 in taxes because the IRS assumes that everyone tips...

Besides, why wouldn't it make sense that servers need to show gross receipts? The restaurant needs to figure out how much money it's making, doesn't it?

That's crazy I'm glad it doesn't work that way here in Canada. I voluntarily claim a certain percentage of my total income from paychecks as tip income at the end of the year when I file my taxes and it works out nowhere near that kind of money. I know alot of waitressed that don't claim any tips.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

My bet is that there is more to the story. If the chefs didn't want to serve her, there is a problem. While our chefs knew a few of the regular customers, they never knew them enough to really form an opinion. I have worked in three restaurants and never had a chef say they didn't want to serve a customer.

I have waited in three restaurants, and it is no cake walk. The others are right, we have to report a percentage of or sales to the IRS as tips. The last restaurant I worked at had a bar, I had to tip out 1% of my sales to the bartender at the end of every shift, regardless of whether or not my tables ordered any alcohol. On busy nights when we had a busser, I had to tip out 1% of my tips to the busser as well. So when people don't tip, not only am I reporting the 8% of your sale to the IRS as income, I am paying my own money to the busser and barteder. This is one reason I try to be a good tipper.

I've had regulars that did not tip well, particularly when I worked at Denny's. But never did we try to fire a customer for not tipping. That is why I think there has to be more to the story and the restaurant is being tight lipped for liability reasons.