Windshield cracked by Golf ball while staying at Treehouse villas

[Brian Noble]

Reductio ad absurdum is your standard debate tactic?

 

[twinklebug]

Life has risks. I don't believe the actual risk in this situation is enough to justify a number of signs about the risk nor a net but I guess that's ultimately up to Disney to decide which they'll do in response to their interpretation of the threat and the complaints they get. One problem with admitting liability in this instance is it opens up a very large can of worms for many areas. Insurance and liability laws can be interesting, for example, if your neighbor's tree falls on your house, it's your responsibility to cover your damages.

Very well put.

When I parked at the baseball fields my kids played ball at I was shocked that my rear window had been shattered by a baseball, but it never crossed my mind that there should be signs up stating the risk, nor did I feel the town baseball league owed me anything to replace the window.

Some facts of life don't need signage:

• Baseball diamonds = baseballs;
• Golf courses = golf balls;
• Hockey games = nut job fathers

 

[Dean]

That said, I do find it applicable. I always find if one can find an extreme example with the same premise it can illustrate the point.

MG

Unless you can show me a decent housing development built around an outdoor shooting range, I find the example far too extreme to be even remotely applicable. Given the unique nature of golf and it's tie in to housing, I can't think of another good example to compare. About the best one could come up with are acts of nature related to rocks on the highway, yard work at business's and the like along with sports issues like baseball, tennis, etc.

 

[DebbieB]

So you pay alot of money or use alot of points to stay in a Treehouse Villa. If you want to park outside your villa, you have to take the risk of it being damaged by golf balls. Or you are walking outside your villa, you or someone in your family could be hit by golf balls. And Disney has no responsibility for this. Sorry, I don't buy it. It's not the same as parking next to the ballfield. You are paying for the use of this villa and it includes the parking space. If the car is in danger of being hit, they should not put the parking space there, they should be directing people to parking elsewhere. Like I said, I've worked in insurance for almost 35 years and have seen claims like this paid, I'm sure my company would not be paying them if we didn't have to. As a property owner, you are responsilble for the safety of your guests and their property and if you direct people to park in a space that has a danger, you are liable.

 

[Dean]

So you pay alot of money or use alot of points to stay in a Treehouse Villa. If you want to park outside your villa, you have to take the risk of it being damaged by golf balls. Or you are walking outside your villa, you or someone in your family could be hit by golf balls. And Disney has no responsibility for this. Sorry, I don't buy it. It's not the same as parking next to the ballfield. You are paying for the use of this villa and it includes the parking space. If the car is in danger of being hit, they should not put the parking space there, they should be directing people to parking elsewhere. Like I said, I've worked in insurance for almost 35 years and have seen claims like this paid, I'm sure my company would not be paying them if we didn't have to. As a property owner, you are responsilble for the safety of your guests and their property and if you direct people to park in a space that has a danger, you are liable.

There is no way to remove all risk. I also realize that there may be special circumstances at times so my statements are general with the idea that any variation in favor of the guest would put the burden of proof on them and not Disney or another similar company. It's really no different than someone hitting the car in the parking lot. If it was a Disney owned vehicle, you'd have recourse though not much since FL is a no fault state. Or if someone broke into your car or even your room and stole items and you "knew" it was a DVC employee that did it. You'd need proof that would convince a judge, basically beyond a reasonable doubt. I do believe it's reasonable to expect an appropriately safe environment with the realization there's no way to remove all risk. IMO, and apparently in Disney's, the risk/liability is not sufficient to take any action. Of course one can litigate over anything no matter how trivial or inappropriate, seems to be one of our inalienable rights. The reality is that your main recourse, if any, would be to the golfer that "allegedly" hit the ball, not Disney.

 

[drusba]

Many seem to have opinions on the liability that are inaccurate so let me provide a different view. The probability of Disney being liable to the OP in this situation is about as close to 100% that you can get. The usual errant golf ball rules are:

1. If you build a home next to an already existing golf course, you are assumed to accept a certain risk of damage and usually the owner of the course will have that assumption of risk as a defense to its liability.

2. If the golf course is constructed after you have built your home, then the owner of that golf course is usually going to be liable for an errant golf ball that does damage to your property.

3. If the owner of the golf course is also the one who bullt the homes, or like Disney is a resort establishment, then the owner is almost certainly going to be liable. It does not have the defense that you intentionally accepted the risk.

4. Proving the damage was done by a golf ball, particularly in the third situation above, is easy. Contrary to what is stated above, if you have damage and find a nearby golf ball, you win unless that resort can positively prove the damage was not due to the golf ball.

In other words, the OP should be asserting a claim with Disney and it's insurer for moneys spent. If you have that insurance through your credit card company make the claim. If you have personal auto insurance also make the claim because it applied to a rental vehicle.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Many seem to have opinions on the liability that are inaccurate so let me provide a different view. The probability of Disney being liable to the OP in this situation is about as close to 100% that you can get. The usual errant golf ball rules are:

1. If you build a home next to an already existing golf course, you are assumed to accept a certain risk of damage and usually the owner of the course will have that assumption of risk as a defense to its liability.

2. If the golf course is constructed after you have built your home, then the owner of that golf course is usually going to be liable for an errant golf ball that does damage to your property.

3. If the owner of the golf course is also the one who bullt the homes, or like Disney is a resort establishment, then the owner is almost certainly going to be liable. It does not have the defense that you intentionally accepted the risk.

4. Proving the damage was done by a golf ball, particularly in the third situation above, is easy. Contrary to what is stated above, if you have damage and find a nearby golf ball, you win unless that resort can positively prove the damage was not due to the golf ball.

In other words, the OP should be asserting a claim with Disney and it's insurer for moneys spent. If you have that insurance through your credit card company make the claim. If you have personal auto insurance also make the claim because it applied to a rental vehicle.

Yeah.. That's what I was just about to say.

MG

 

[Fellowship9798]

Getting away from the heated debate for a second, this reminds me of arriving at the OLD Treehouse Villas back in 1997 with my parents. We were all excited to get there, driving through the tree-lined lanes, walking up he steps to the front door, and waiting for us on the door may was a golf ball. Where did this. One from we all wondered.

It was our first WDW trip, our first day on property, and the unit was in the trees so until we went in and looked around and out the windows we didn't realize it was alongside the golf course. Never got hit though.

Many years later my younger sister lived in one of the old THV in their last days while on the College Program. Never heard of golf ball problem from her then either, but I'm sure it happens from time to time.

 

[marynvince]

4. Proving the damage was done by a golf ball, particularly in the third situation above, is easy. Contrary to what is stated above, if you have damage and find a nearby golf ball, you win unless that resort can positively prove the damage was not due to the golf ball.

Not that it proves anything, but the offending golf ball was Disney logo'd. So not only did Disney provide the opportunity, they also provided the means to carry out the offending incident.

 

[Simba's Mom]

1) While I am aware of the potential "Danger" from an errant golf ball, someone that is not a golfer that gets assigned that villa(7035) might not be. There is a chance of getting hit while sitting on the deck or even when walking from villa to car. I think that should be communicated in some way. I am not complaining, I am simply saying. I requested this villa for its location and it worked out great from that standpoint.

If you're staying at OKW, you could have the same problem of errant golf balls hitting cars or people. I know I've been sitting on the deck of one building, hearing golf balls hit the surrounding palm trees and getting stuck in the branches. Thank goodness for all those palm trees!

 

[MsTessP]

We were at OKW on Turtle Pond in a 1st floor 2 bedroom villa over NYE. We were out on the deck enjoying our morning coffee on a glorious morning when we heard a loud BAM! over our heads. Our neighbor upstairs was also having his coffee on his deck. A golf cart shortly came into sight, and a very contrite golfer came through the trees to look for his errant golf ball. The neighbor upstairs was able to point the ball out to the golfer and stated that it had just missed his head, crashed into a railing and riccocheted back down into the bushes. My dh (an attorney) and I spent the next few minutes discussing Disney's possible liability issues if the situation had been different and an injury had taken place. We did come to the conclusion that broken windows and dents in the siding must happen on a regular basis, at the very least.

 

[pequele]

A crack in the windshield and a statement the golf ball was lying there is definitely not proof. How would you even prove the golf ball got there by the suggested means or you didn't bring it with you with intent on making the claim. The burden of proof is on the person filing the complaint. To prove this happened you'll need things like an eye witness, admission by the golfer or the golf ball embedded in the windshield or some similar circumstance. One might or might not be able to infer this happened as suggested due to circumstantial evidence but that's about the best position one could get to in this situation it seems. It seems like you didn't let it ruin your trip and Alamo was reasonable about it. You might still contact your CC company if you reserved with a CC and your personal insurance carrier, it might be possible to get someone else to cover it without too much effort.

Ok, but then did Disney do due diligence in informing said party that this parking spot (or villa etc) is in fact near a golf course and parking is at their own risk as their vehicle or themselves may be hit by an errant ball? Parking garages have to inform drivers of how low their ceilings are to prevent people with too large a vehicle from damaging the car and/or garage, why can't Disney provide this info to people who use these lots? How would one KNOW to bring a golf ball to file a false claim for a rental car of all things!

 

[Dean]

Ok, but then did Disney do due diligence in informing said party that this parking spot (or villa etc) is in fact near a golf course and parking is at their own risk as their vehicle or themselves may be hit by an errant ball? Parking garages have to inform drivers of how low their ceilings are to prevent people with too large a vehicle from damaging the car and/or garage, why can't Disney provide this info to people who use these lots? How would one KNOW to bring a golf ball to file a false claim for a rental car of all things!

IF someone wanted to do this, they would find a way, people stage accidents all the time and FL is apparently the leading state for staged vehicle accidents. I did some internet investigation and the best answers I could find (and the aggregate) seemed to say that the course/business could not be held liable in most cases of damage but that the individual golfer sure could. Personal injury on the golf course was another matter and seems to vary state by state and would seem to center on whether there was negligence on the part of the golfer. I couldn't find much about injury to those not on the golf course.

The question regarding your saga boils down to determining the club's legal duty if business invitees on their property, i.e. golfers paying to use their golf facility, regularly cause damage to your person or property as a result of their activity. It sort of has the makings of a nuisance claim, however courts have very regularly shot down any actions brought in nuisance against golf courses under similar scenarios. Essentially, courts in every jurisdiction in which I have checked impute no duty upon the golf course. Actions for negligent design (of the golf course) have likewise failed.

 

[Jong1979]

We were assigned a golf course unit in OKW for our July 7-14, 2012 vacation. I never thought a golf ball could hurdle over the condos and hit and smash my windshield.... Couldn't believe that Disney wouldn't take responsibility. Guess its on me, but next time, I'll be sure we are not next to a golf course. Good thing it was a rental car. Even better that I used my Master Card who will pickup the tab.

 

[vicki_c]

We were assigned a golf course unit in OKW for our July 7-14, 2012 vacation. I never thought a golf ball could hurdle over the condos and hit and smash my windshield.... Couldn't believe that Disney wouldn't take responsibility. Guess its on me, but next time, I'll be sure we are not next to a golf course. Good thing it was a rental car. Even better that I used my Master Card who will pickup the tab.

I don't have anything written to prove it, but I'm pretty sure your resort paperwork and signs in some of the lots say they are not responsible for things that happen to cars in the lot. Golf course parking lots don't pay for those type of accidents either.

 

[Dean]

We were assigned a golf course unit in OKW for our July 7-14, 2012 vacation. I never thought a golf ball could hurdle over the condos and hit and smash my windshield.... Couldn't believe that Disney wouldn't take responsibility. Guess its on me, but next time, I'll be sure we are not next to a golf course. Good thing it was a rental car. Even better that I used my Master Card who will pickup the tab.

We went through this already and I did some pretty extensive research on the issue. From what I can see it's the golfer who would be responsible, not the golf course, which I think is not Disney now.

 

[Simba's Mom]

We went through this already and I did some pretty extensive research on the issue. From what I can see it's the golfer who would be responsible, not the golf course, which I think is not Disney now.

I checked with DH, a big-time golfer, and we live on a golf course. Technically, it is the golfer's responsibility. But the reality is that more often than not, you just come back to find a windshield smashed and no note from the golfer. Then it's between you and your own insurance. For all you Hilton Head visitors, you could be driving along the main road (I think the Robert Trent Jones course is an example of a course next to a main road) when smash! Your car gets hit by a very errant golf ball. Then you deal with your own insurance.

Makes you think twice about those lovely homes overlooking a golf course. Errant golf balls is the major reason why we chose to live a few houses away from the course rather than having a house right on the course.

 

[granmanh603]

If you're staying at OKW, you could have the same problem of errant golf balls hitting cars or people. I know I've been sitting on the deck of one building, hearing golf balls hit the surrounding palm trees and getting stuck in the branches. Thank goodness for all those palm trees!

I was just going to post something like that.... if you ever stay at OKW and sit out on the patio/deck you life is in danger...and they are forever hitting the units too.... we usually come back in afternoon and use it for amusement... I never knew golfers were that bad and paid that much money to play being that bad...(never played or been on a golf course) you also see them hit it 5 or 10 feet

 

[LindaBabe]

I would think it could be proven if the vehicle was parked next to a Treehouse Villa and was not moved at all before security was called. In regards to your own insurance company paying for it.....depends on what your deductible is.....I know we've had a few windshields broken from flying pebbles/rocks on the highway (my DH drives 80 highway miles round trip to work every day)over the years and have always had to cover the cost OOP because our deductible is $500.

I'm surprised at that! Glass coverage in New York State has no deductible.

I guess we are spoiled here in Florida. State law mandates zero deductible for windshield replacement.

THAT.

 

[Dean]

I checked with DH, a big-time golfer, and we live on a golf course. Technically, it is the golfer's responsibility. But the reality is that more often than not, you just come back to find a windshield smashed and no note from the golfer. Then it's between you and your own insurance. For all you Hilton Head visitors, you could be driving along the main road (I think the Robert Trent Jones course is an example of a course next to a main road) when smash! Your car gets hit by a very errant golf ball. Then you deal with your own insurance.

Makes you think twice about those lovely homes overlooking a golf course. Errant golf balls is the major reason why we chose to live a few houses away from the course rather than having a house right on the course.

Exactly, unless you can run the golfer down and either prove they did it or they take responsibility. I know of cases where someone who lives on a golf course had damage that they didn't know about at the time or who did it. Then they wait for someone else to hit a ball in that direction and then try to blame it on them.