will the draft be reininstated?

[Crankyshank]

Excuse me, but you called me a hypocrite. And where did I insult Evil Princess? I scoffed at the whole idea that periods are why a woman can't be drafted, but I never insulted her.

Again, I never said women should be in the military or wear a burqua. But thank you for all but accusing me of lying that I was rejected from enlistment. How about reading and comprehending what I write successfully prior to reading into anything that I've written.

This is my precise quote about the middle east. Again, you might want to research the Middle East. Not all of the countries located there force their women to wear burquas. Most do require head covering, because that's religious law.

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And to the people who say we're pushing for womens rights but arent willing to pay the piper... - Not all of us are pushing for womens rights. So speak for yourself.
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So when are you moving to the middle east? Because if you want to turn back the women's movement then that's really the only place you're going to be able to live and not be able to: date, vote, work, own property, be educated, drive, or make any decisions other than what your father and husband (a husband your family chose for you) tells you to do.

In other words, if you don't want to live in the Western World where you enjoy these rights and will eventually have to pay the price for having such rights, this is a place you can go. It wasn't an order to move, it wasn't a statement that if you don't support the draft or the war, you should move there.


As far as dishing it out, you're doing quite a bit of dishing it out yourself. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by ToriLammy
That's not the message I saw in her messages but then I guess I read them differently. I have seen some messages that play to the stereotype of "weak women who need to be protected." I think those are silly myself.

There are a lot of weak women out there. I used to take my one friend water skiing (well, she just likes boating). She tried it once and the 2nd she had to hold the rope to try and get up, she let go instantly because her wrists were too weak to hold her up. I don't know about you, but if I were a soldier, I would not want her fighting beside me in any war. I also listen to Evil Princess, now I don't know her from Adam, but I don't believe she is a person I would want to be standing beside on the front lines either. Do you honestly think she wouldn't do more harm than good there? Guys would be trying to protect her and she'd be worthless to anyone because she'd probably be shaking in her skin and maybe even in hysterics. I'm certainly not trying to offend her and I don't believe she'd take my reply here as such, but you tell me where that does anything to help our troops or our morale? Heck, she's been as sweet as can be to all of you who have criticized her. Would you have been as sweet as she has been in response if someone said the same about you? I know I wouldn't have been!

 

[Crankyshank]

I don't know about you, but if I were a soldier, I would not want her fighting beside me in any war. I also listen to Evil Princess, now I don't know her from Adam, but I don't believe she is a person I would want to be standing beside on the front lines either. Do you honestly think she wouldn't do more harm than good there?

There are plenty of other jobs in the military that don't involve being in the front lines. If she was deigned incapable of fighting, she would be put where they can use her skills, or she would be dismissed from service.

There are plenty of men I wouldn't want fighting on the front lines either. why is it ok for them to be drafted and not women?

 

[jipsy]

Recruit nothing but women. Put them all together for about 6 months. It is known that when women are together for a long period of time, they begin their menstrual cycle together.

Once this happens, put them all on the front line at the first signs of PMS. They will win.

War over.

(*this message is brought to you with a large amount of sarcasm; please take it that way*)

 

[I <3 Eeyore]

*stamps, whistles and cheers for Crankyshank*

For those who are so concerned about women being built differently than men and as such, not capable of defending themselves as a soldier in the military, my DD is a little bitty 5'2" woman. She spent 7 months in Kosovo on her last deployment and was the only (I repeat ONLY) woman at the camp she was assigned to. You do NOT want to call her weak, defenseless and in need of protection from the big bad. She'd cut you down in a heartbeat (and I wouldn't be far behind her).


jips...

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by Crankyshank
Excuse me, but you called me a hypocrite. And where did I insult Evil Princess? I scoffed at the whole idea that periods are why a woman can't be drafted, but I never insulted her.

Again, I never said women should be in the military or wear a burqua. But thank you for all but accusing me of lying that I was rejected from enlistment. How about reading and comprehending what I write successfully prior to reading into anything that I've written.

This is my precise quote about the middle east. Again, you might want to research the Middle East. Not all of the countries located there force their women to wear burquas. Most do require head covering, because that's religious law.



In other words, if you don't want to live in the Western World where you enjoy these rights and will eventually have to pay the price for having such rights, this is a place you can go. It wasn't an order to move, it wasn't a statement that if you don't support the draft or the war, you should move there.


As far as dishing it out, you're doing quite a bit of dishing it out yourself. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question.

and what question might that be?

As to insulting Evil Princess, go back and reread this thread if you don't feel anyone insulted her? I never said anyone called her names now, but she was insulted quite often when she fought tooth and nail saying she wasn't military material and she didn't feel a need to stand up for women's rights. It was quite insulting when it was recommended that she head to the middle east if she didn't wish to fight for those rights here. Most woman did NOTHING for the women's movement that are here today. Does that mean for those of us who did nothing, shouldn't vote, shouldn't marry the person of our choice...etc....etc?

and....I Never accused you of lying. Reread my post. I said, it fits the story here and is rather easy to type it out saying you tried to enlist. It certainly could be a coincidence, but hey, this is a message board and you'd not be the 1st to lie about anything to suit your cause. That was not in anyway an implication that you did in fact lie, but rather a general statement that you could have. As you've said, it's none of my business and I certainly am not going to ask you to prove it! If you took it as my saying you did lied, I do apologize for that.

I might dish it out, but I can assure you, I can take what's dished out too.

Just for the record, I have a 13 year old son and a 12 year old daughter. I don't want to see either of them ever fighting in a war. I don't believe any of us want that for our children. My daughter may change, but she can't stand the sight of a bug and screams at the sight of one. Yeah, I'd say she would be a real good comrade one day! She is a girlie girl all the way!! She did not get that from me, but I certainly wasn't raised like she has been either. I was raised to take care of myself from grade 6 on. This included, working in a store and delivering papers to buy every single thing I wanted, including my own clothing. I had no parental involvement really. I had to cook my own meals, clean our house, do my own laundry and God forbid if I'd need help with homework because there was never anyone there to help! I did all this while playing hockey on the school team, lacrosse and I was GOD forbid, a cheerleader. I was also quite involved in many other school activities. I'd also baby-sit a lot for extra money. I messed with sex, drugs and alcohol too! This made me tougher (wouldn't necessarily say stronger) than what I hope my daughter ever has to be. I've seen and done more than I'd ever let her do today. What I teach her isn't going to do anything that would ever make her a good soldier!! My hope is rather to get her through high school with high academic achievements and to help her in anyway to keep her an honor student so she's able to get into a good college and then eventually get a good job.

Sorry if you feel she should be going away to defend your women's lib, but that's not what I want for her and I'm certain it's not what she'd choose either. I'm glad to know that I'll be in good company with the rest of the country too! Good day to you!

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by jipsy
Recruit nothing but women. Put them all together for about 6 months. It is known that when women are together for a long period of time, they begin their menstrual cycle together.

Once this happens, put them all on the front line at the first signs of PMS. They will win.

War over.

(*this message is brought to you with a large amount of sarcasm; please take it that way*)

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by I <3 Eeyore
*stamps, whistles and cheers for Crankyshank*

For those who are so concerned about women being built differently than men and as such, not capable of defending themselves as a soldier in the military, my DD is a little bitty 5'2" woman. She spent 7 months in Kosovo on her last deployment and was the only (I repeat ONLY) woman at the camp she was assigned to. You do NOT want to call her weak, defenseless and in need of protection from the big bad. She'd cut you down in a heartbeat (and I wouldn't be far behind her).


jips...

Bravo for your daughter. I don't mean that sarcastically either. I'm sure she's an asset to our armed forces and you should be very proud of her. Keep in mind however, it was her choice to enlist. The fact that she was the only one is her camp says a lot to me though that she does not represent all women. The fact that you state she'd cut us all down proves that point all the more. I'm certainly not suggesting a woman shouldn't have the right to make any decision she wishes. That's what women's lib is all about! CHOICE!

 

[I <3 Eeyore]

I had hoped that the days of Scarlett O'Hara and other hot house flowers were behind us. What a shame that raising daughters to be strong and capable of defending themselves is less desireable than shielding them from the 'bad stuff' of life.

Call me crazy but I don't see where finishing college and getting a good job is mutually exclusive with being strong and capable. I find it just the opposite. I wish your daughter luck, N. Bailey. Some day she's bound to find out that the real world isn't like the protective cocoon you've built for her. I hope she can find the coping skills to deal whan that happens.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by Crankyshank
There are plenty of other jobs in the military that don't involve being in the front lines. If she was deigned incapable of fighting, she would be put where they can use her skills, or she would be dismissed from service.

There are plenty of men I wouldn't want fighting on the front lines either. why is it ok for them to be drafted and not women?

I'm not so convinced she wouldn't be placed on the front lines and I'm as equally not convinced she would be dismissed. This, I believe is wishful thinking on your part.

 

[I <3 Eeyore]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
Bravo for your daughter. I don't mean that sarcastically either. I'm sure she's an asset to our armed forces and you should be very proud of her. Keep in mind however, it was her choice to enlist. The fact that she was the only one is her camp says a lot to me though that she does not represent all women. The fact that you state she'd cut us all down proves that point all the more. I'm certainly not suggesting a woman shouldn't have the right to make any decision she wishes. That's what women's lib is all about! CHOICE!

While I appreciate the compliment, I don't think she's that unusual. The women I know are not in need of protection. Very few women I've met or worked with are in need of protection. They're more than capable of standing on their own two feet. I think it has everything to do with how your raised and the expectations you have of yourself. Women's lib is not just about choice, it's also about responsibility.

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by I <3 Eeyore
I had hoped that the days of Scarlett O'Hara and other hot house flowers were behind us. What a shame that raising daughters to be strong and capable of defending themselves is less desireable than sheilding them from the 'bad stuff' of life.

Call me crazy but I don't see where finishing college and getting a good job is mutually exclusive with being strong and capable. I find it just the opposite. I wish your daughter luck, N. Bailey. Some day she's bound to find out that the real world isn't like the protective cocoon you've built for her. I hope she can find the coping skills to deal whan that happens.

Excuse me if I monitor my 12 year olds behavior that isn't acceptable to your train of thought. I lived a hard life as a child, much harder than most! Try being raised with 2 alcoholic parents sometime! I don't want my daughter being exposed to the things I had to deal with. I don't put her in a cocoon, but I certainly let her be a child and I am there for her every step of the way. I talk with her about drugs, smoking, drinking, sex and sexual transmitted diseases always! I try my best to bring her up in a good Christian home.

Goodie for you if you think your way was so much better. I have news for you though, your daughter might be good at her job, but that doesn't mean she is better at every job, and it certainly does not make her a better person. She's no less of a person either and I don't want to suggest that she is, but other than to you and her family, she's no better than anyone else either. I say the same thing about my own daughter too and I tell her that we are all equal!!

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by I <3 Eeyore
While I appreciate the compliment, I don't think she's that unusual. The women I know are not in need of protection. Very few women I've met or worked with are in need of protection. They're more than capable of standing on their own two feet. I think it has everything to do with how your raised and the expectations you have of yourself. Women's lib is not just about choice, it's also about responsibility.

Standing on your own two feet facing the corporate world is not the same thing as standing on your own two feet with an AK-47 in hand ready to blast the 1st thing that moves. I hope we can at least agree on that! My daughter will be more than ready to stand on her own two feet when it comes to taking care of herself in regards to the corportate world!

 

[I <3 Eeyore]

Please step off the pedestal. I'm not going to play 'Can you top that?' with stories of my abusive childhood with an alcoholic parent. Suffice it to say that I fully understand the trauma and hardship that it entails. It taught me at an early age that the world can be a dangerous place for children.

The difference is that I don't shield my children from life, I teach them how to deal with it head on. I never said that made my daughter better than anyone else. I do believe, though, that she's better equipped to handle what comes her way.

 

[I <3 Eeyore]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
Standing on your own two feet facing the corporate world is not the same thing as standing on your own two feet with an AK-47 in hand ready to blast the 1st thing that moves. I hope we can at least agree on that!

We can absolutely agree on that. I play in the corporate world 5 days a week. The difference is that it can be much harder to determine who the enemy is and the AK-47's are better hidden there than in a war. Beyond that, they're the same.

 

[Crankyshank]

Again, I NEVER SAID SHE SHOULD MOVE TO THE MIDDLE EAST!!!
It wasn't even her quote I was quoting. I merely offered a suggestion for those so opposed to the women's movement as to where they can move to. I never said your daughter, or anyone's daughter, needs to to run out and enlist. All I'm asking is why it's ok for your son to defend the country and not your daughter.

I also had to be self sufficent as a child. I was home alone for hours starting at age 6. I was babysitting my siblings at nine. I got excellent grades, was active in extracurricular activities, and I have a good job and an education. I didn't get involved in drugs - I'm not sure what this has to do with whether or not I'm capable of defending my country if called to serve.

I come from a long line of strong self-sufficient women. The concept of having to depend on a man to do something I am capable of doing for myself is quite alien. I was always taught that with freedom comes with responsibility. What's so wrong with that?

I don't understand why you are attacking me for my belief that if comes to a draft, men and women should be equally drafted. You're attacking me over semantics. As I stated all ready, I don't believe there will be a draft. But what happens if your daughter decides on her own to enlist? There are plenty of "girly girls" in the armed forces doing jobs that don't require being shot at or even being sent to the front.


My question is quite simple - why shouldn't women be drafted? How is it ok for women to serve in active combat but not ok to be drafted?

 

[jennyanydots]

Crankyshank, the double standard evident on this thread has set the women's movement back 20 years.

I hope the next generation is not so provincial and narrow minded.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Are you wearing a US uniform? Have you ever?

I do wear the uniform, and I'm absolutely in favor of including women in draft registration, and if it comes to it, drafting them as well. With rights come responsibilities, and it is high time, IMO, that women step up and take on these responsibilities.

I'm proud to say that in the years that I served they did figure it all out and I have yet to find a place in my civilian life were women are treated as equally and fairly as the US Air Force.

ITA.

Tell me, why should an unwilling male be sent and not an unwilling female? How is ok to send your son and not your daughter?

This is something I've wondered about all along. I'm shocked at the number of people that seem to value their daughter's lives more than they value their son's.

All I asked for is actual legitimate reasons why a woman can serve in the military but women shouldn't be drafted. Instead of getting hysterical and resorting to name calling and accusing me of things I never said, how about answering the question?

I'd love to see those answers, too.

I have seen some messages that play to the stereotype of "weak women who need to be protected." I think those are silly myself.

Not only silly, but insulting.

I'm not so convinced she wouldn't be placed on the front lines and I'm as equally not convinced she would be dismissed. This, I believe is wishful thinking on your part.

No, it's not wishful thinking. People that can't DO the jobs aren't PLACED in the jobs. Why in the world would someone that can't do the job be put in a position to get others killed? That's just poor resource management.

For all of those that don't think their daughter's have a responsibility to help defend this country, please answer me this:

Are you willing to have her lose her right to vote? Why shouldn't she - she isn't willing to fight for it.

Are you willing to have her lose her to to equal pay for equal work? Why shouldn't she - she isn't willing to fight for it.

Are you willing for her to lose all of the rights guaranteed her under the Constitution? Why shouldn't she - she isn't willing to fight for them.

 

[jennyanydots]

Brenda -- you go, girl.

 

[Rutt and Tuke]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
I do wear the uniform, and I'm absolutely in favor of including women in draft registration, and if it comes to it, drafting them as well. With rights come responsibilities, and it is high time, IMO, that women step up and take on these responsibilities.




ITA.



This is something I've wondered about all along. I'm shocked at the number of people that seem to value their daughter's lives more than they value their son's.



I'd love to see those answers, too.



Not only silly, but insulting.



No, it's not wishful thinking. People that can't DO the jobs aren't PLACED in the jobs. Why in the world would someone that can't do the job be put in a position to get others killed? That's just poor resource management.

For all of those that don't think their daughter's have a responsibility to help defend this country, please answer me this:

Are you willing to have her lose her right to vote? Why shouldn't she - she isn't willing to fight for it.

Are you willing to have her lose her to to equal pay for equal work? Why shouldn't she - she isn't willing to fight for it.

Are you willing for her to lose all of the rights guaranteed her under the Constitution? Why shouldn't she - she isn't willing to fight for them.

It is simple to me.

Nobody should be drafted unless absolutely, absolutely necessary.

If anyone is drafted then it should be both men and women.