Will DVC count as a "Deluxe Resort" for extended park hours

[robinb]

Early entry in all parks every day.

That basically allows you to get through the top 2 rides at rope drop with minimal wait before the masses.

Also the 30 mins likely will be closer to 45 early still if I have to guess.

Example for AK you will be out of FOP before the off-site is even let in.

Staying offsite essentially eliminates rope Drop.

Not only before “the masses” but also before FP kicks in. I remember when the original FP was in place the first window didn’t start until 40 minutes after the park opened. That gave us nearly 2 hours (with EE) in the morning with shorter lines. Once FP+ was announced it started right at park opening and the FP line slowed down the stand by line as soon as the park opened.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I don’t like it.. it’s a class system, it reeks of … dare I use the word privileges for only deluxe guests. I’d prefer it if it were DVC only atleast one could justify that these guests already paid in handsomely for the perk.
I DISagree with levels of Entitlement based on which resort chosen.. or for that case.. is even available.
that being said, it actually won’t affect us often if at all as we choose deluxe but it definitely Bothers me. Certainly not INclusive for All Disney Resort Guests… ur labeled as Deluxe or Nothing

While I agree that I wish it were for all guests, I disagree about having a case for DVC only. You say they “pay handsomely”. That is where I disagree. The entire argument for buying DVC is to save money over cash guests.

 

[CaliAdventurer]

You don't have to have DVC for this offer. It applies to all deluxe and deluxe villa guests, regardless if staying with point or paying with cash.

Exactly, and by default all DVC stays will get the perquisite! It’s a win for DVC, something added not taken away- finally!

 

[sethschroeder]

Exactly, and by default all DVC stays will get the perquisite! It’s a win for DVC, something added not taken away- finally!

This also raises the value of DVC since those deluxe resorts are more worth it, they will operate closer to capacity, and thus Disney can increase prices which changes the DVC value calculations.

I am hopeful that if Disney does bring out a paid FP+ option Deluxe gets it for free.

 

[DebbieB]

This also raises the value of DVC since those deluxe resorts are more worth it, they will operate closer to capacity, and thus Disney can increase prices which changes the DVC value calculations.

I am hopeful that if Disney does bring out a paid FP+ option Deluxe gets it for free.

My first thought when I heard about EMH is this is part of a bigger plan. My bet is it sinks free fastpass for Deluxe. If people are outraged about EMH, imagine if fastpass was free too (and value, moderate pay).

 

[fumanchu2488]

My first thought when I heard about EMH is this is part of a bigger plan. My bet is it sinks free fastpass for Deluxe. If people are outraged about EMH, imagine if fastpass was free too (and value, moderate pay).

I don’t think it would be that straightforward. Disney has a major issue with their deluxe resorts and they need to find a way to make them more attractive to their customers. If you look at their competition like the 4 seasons or JW Marriott or Grand Wyndham, all are much nicer accommodations for similar or cheaper prices. So, what can they do?

They could update all the hotels to meet that standard but that would cost millions upon millions of dollars.

They could lower the price of their rooms to be more in line with expectations as a resort.

Or they could do what they are doing. Monetize anything they can to add value to the deluxe stay. So now when you compare a $600/night VGF stay vs. a $600/night 4 season stay you can compare benefits. With VGF you get extra hours now. Maybe in the future you get free FP and maybe you get dining credit or dining plan. At no cost to Disney they have immediately added $100s of dollars of value to their deluxe rooms.

 

[Nabas]

There's an assumption that Disney is having a problem filling their Deluxe Resorts. However, pre-COVID, overall hotel occupancy was 90% in 2019. At 90%, Disney just can't have that big of a Deluxe Resort occupancy problem, other than perhaps Animal Kingdom Lodge, which has 972 rooms.

For some perspective, after the VGF2 conversion, the Grand Floridian will be the next largest with 667 rooms. Port Orleans French Quarter has 1008 rooms, so AKL is almost as large as a Moderate Resort. (Larger, if you add in the DVC rooms.) They might have a problem filling AKL, but I suspect most other Deluxe Resorts are doing fine. And after the 200-room DVC conversion at the Grand Floridian, the Grand Floridian also will be much more modest in size. By the end of 2022, Disney will have solved the Deluxe Resort occupancy problem, other than AKL.

Rather than a Deluxe Resort occupancy problem, I suspect the benefit is being reserved for Deluxe Resorts as a reason to justify future Deluxe Resort and DVC price increases.

After all, Disney has a history of initially offering things at a reasonable price (e.g. DDP or TiW) and then slowing cranking up prices year-after-year.

 

[limace]

I do know they’ve been having a problem filling VGF specifically-according the data folks on Touring Plans, that is.

 

[thptrek]

Regarding comments on crowds it reminds me of Yogi Berra "nobody goes there anymore because its too crowded"

 

[RoseGold]

There's an assumption that Disney is having a problem filling their Deluxe Resorts. However, pre-COVID, overall hotel occupancy was 90% in 2019. At 90%, Disney just can't have that big of a Deluxe Resort occupancy problem, other than perhaps Animal Kingdom Lodge, which has 972 rooms.

I thought this was even in an earnings call? Disney had a deluxe problem even before Covid. They were getting killed by Four Seasons and the Ritz and such. I mean, I'd be pretty pissed if I paid $800/night for a Poly room. It's pretty obvious those properties would provide a superior experience if you were wiling to pay for it. There's a reason they agreed to sell the furthest VGF building to DVC. I really don't see why you'd pay deluxe rates right now.

The solution is to bring back some kind of benefit, like EMH. Or, to go a completely new direction like Halcyon.

 

[Nabas]

I thought this was even in an earnings call? Disney had a deluxe problem even before Covid. They were getting killed by Four Seasons and the Ritz and such. I mean, I'd be pretty pissed if I paid $800/night for a Poly room. It's pretty obvious those properties would provide a superior experience if you were wiling to pay for it. There's a reason they agreed to sell the furthest VGF building to DVC. I really don't see why you'd pay deluxe rates right now.

At the moment, with pent up vacation demand and only about 70% of WDW's hotel rooms open, Disney is having little difficulty filling its hotels. Search any week this year on disneyworld.com and not much is available.

As far as converting the farthest VGF building (a.k.a. Big Pine Key), that brings the Grand Floridian down to the size of most other Deluxe Resorts. As I mentioned in my earlier post, only Animal Kingdom Lodge is "too big for a Deluxe" after 2022. Deluxe Resort room counts after the conversion:
- Animal Kingdom Lodge - 972
- Grand Floridian - 667
- Contemporary - 655
- Yacht Club - 621
- Beach Club - 583
- Polynesian - 479
- Wilderness Lodge - 430
- Boardwalk Inn - 372

Converting Big Pine Key allows Disney to cash out on a couple hundred million. Not bad for a spring-to-summer conversion of one building!

Regarding earnings calls, here's what I found from the last 3 years.

CFO Christine McCarthy, 4 August 2020:

And as it relates to sort of pricing and occupancy of the hotel, it's really – like there's so many hotels that are not yet reopened. And so those are kind of meaningless numbers right now. So once, I would say, the travel patterns get a little more normalized, and we see people going in and staying for regular vacations like they used to, we'll be providing occupancy and booking numbers.​

I would be greatly interested if you can locate something from Disney that discusses a Deluxe Resort problem. Prior to COVID, the last few years of hotel occupancy have been the best in decades.

Thanks!

 

[RoseGold]

These rumors have been out there a while, related to the failure of VGF, even pre-Covid. VGF needs to be refreshed and even pre-covid wasn't on the level of the real luxury competitors. Four Seasons and Ritz are at higher rates and are both large properties.

https://wdwnt.com/2017/01/rumor-disneys-grand-floridian-resort-gutted-become-modern-luxury-resort/
With Jambo closed, I'd say the luxury issue is obvious. I bet Disney would much rather open Jambo than All Stars, if the demand were there. I would argue Disney doesn't have a product right now on the level of the Four Seasons and hasn't since I started following this a few years ago.

 

[Nabas]

These rumors have been out there a while, related to the failure of VGF, even pre-Covid. VGF needs to be refreshed and even pre-covid wasn't on the level of the real luxury competitors. Four Seasons and Ritz are at higher rates and are both large properties.

https://*****.com/2017/01/rumor-disneys-grand-floridian-resort-gutted-become-modern-luxury-resort/
With Jambo closed, I'd say the luxury issue is obvious. I bet Disney would much rather open Jambo than All Stars, if the demand were there. I would argue Disney doesn't have a product right now on the level of the Four Seasons and hasn't since I started following this a few years ago.

First, Disney is reopening Animal Kingdom Lodge (a.k.a. Jambo House) on August 26, less than 2 months from today.

Second, quoting from that article, which is dated January 31, 2017:

Obviously, many executives at Walt Disney World are trying to talk Chapek out of this massive remodeling as the Grand Floridian makes quite a bit of money and is often well-liked by those who stay there. One of the proposed alternate plans would involve constructing a new flagship hotel for Walt Disney World just north of the Transportation and Ticket Center. Reportedly, they have had no luck in changing his mind as of yet and Chapek is still moving full speed ahead with his plan.​

It's now 4 1/2 years since that "full speed ahead with his plan". Anything more recent on this?

My guess is that this source got it confused with the Riviera, which was announced at the D23 Expo in 2017.

Third, the above quote even states: "the Grand Floridian makes quite a bit of money", which seems to destroy the notion that Disney is having a Deluxe Resort occupancy problem. (Other than the "AKL is too large" issue that I've already mentioned twice).

Again, is there anything out there from a reliable source indicating that there is a Deluxe Resort occupancy problem?

Thanks.

 

[RoseGold]

Nobody said Grand Floridian doesn't make money. So does All Stars. I'm saying Four Seasons and the Ritz are killing it with a product Disney doesn't have. The aging Grand Floridian ain't it.

Jambo's date has been moved several times now. I'll believe it when I see it. You know Disney would love to fill Jambo if demand were there. And Jambo is also not at the pricing or level of the Four Seasons and never has been.

Pre-Covid, this was obvious, and there were lots of rumors about totally changing over Grand Floridian. Maybe that will be delayed, but the point is the same. I think the Contemporary re-do might be closest thing right now for Disney to attempt an actual luxury product. Oh, and Contemporary and Poly have been under construction post-Covid time, so those rooms weren't full either.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm saying Four Seasons and the Ritz are killing it with a product Disney doesn't have. The aging Grand Floridian ain't it.

It's not just the physical plant of the resort. Disney is not close to the level of service one might find at e.g a Four Seasons. Disney is a competent hotelier, but not much more than that. I think of them as a notch below one of the better business-class chains. The Cast does a good job at handling the routine, but they aren't particularly good at solving problems nor do they deliver the high-touch experience you'd get at one of these more luxury-class properties.

Here's a simple example: I was traveling to the Four Seasons in DC for a conference several years ago. As the bellman was opening the door to my Lyft, he welcomed me by name. I still am not 100% sure how they pulled that off--I suspect his colleague checked the name tag on my luggage as he was pulling it out of the trunk--but it appeared completely effortless. Even with ME and the ability to know for sure who is getting off the bus with at least 30 minutes notice, the Cast is looking at a tablet to try to figure out who you are as you walk up.

Fixing this is hard, because right now the level of service isn't all that different across any of the WDW properties no matter what the nightly rate is. In fact, I suspect that the decision to sell/lease that plot to the Four Seasons was essentially an admission that they wouldn't even try.

 

[Brian Noble]

You know Disney would love to fill Jambo if demand were there

It could be lagging demand, but it also could be difficulty in staffing. It is really hard to hire in nearly any service industry right now.

 

[KimMcGowan]

I find it interesting that the tone of this thread is completely different than the thread in the Disney Rumors thread. In that thread 90% of the posters are against the move to classify EMH as a deluxe perk (including some DVC members). The numbers are reversed here.

 

[zavandor]

I find it interesting that the tone of this thread is completely different than the thread in the Disney Rumors thread. In that thread 90% of the posters are against the move to classify EMH as a deluxe perk (including some DVC members). The numbers are reversed here.

Not suprising at all, since almost all people here are DVC members or would be DVC members, so we would qualify for the perk, which is better because fewer people have it.

 

[New Mouse]

Fixing this is hard, because right now the level of service isn't all that different across any of the WDW properties no matter what the nightly rate is. In fact, I suspect that the decision to sell/lease that plot to the Four Seasons was essentially an admission that they wouldn't even try.

This.

There is generally speaking, no "bonus" for working at Grand Floridian vs. All Star, so the service you get will always be equal to the whim of the entry level employee.

 

[KimMcGowan]

Not suprising at all, since almost all people here are DVC members or would be DVC members, so we would qualify for the perk, which is better because fewer people have it.

No, I agree with what you are saying. I just worded my post incorrectly. What I am surprised about is the percentage of DVC owners supporting this decision vs. the ones not supporting it. In the other thread they are overwhelmingly against this move, even if it benefits them. In this thread the exact opposite is true. One would assume that DVC support/non-support would be consistent across threads.