Why would they do this--sports team related?

[Pea-n-Me]

You cannot possibly think that you can judge someone's character from one small snapshot of their lives. In order to make that kind of judgement you need to know the choices that were given to her, the reasons why her choices may have been limited, why she made the choice she made and how she felt about it.

For all we know the girl did not feel she had a choice and was heart broken about it and is truly upset that she has let down her teammates.

This girl worked just as hard as anyone else to make the varisty team. She has already earned her spot on the team and she played it. So the privlege, the right and the honor were already earned. To give up her spot in this tournament is ONE choice, it is not something that defines her life.

You know, I'd be happy to do it, but to get into a larger discussion about character and integrity here would really be beyond what's necessary for the scope of this thread.

I do believe that character and integrity show themselves even in the high school population - and younger. They are to be nurtured in the formative years so that as adults, they're there. This is, in part, what things like honoring-commitments-even-when-you-don't-want-to-but-just-because-it's-the-right-thing-to-do, help develop.

I dunno. Maybe this is something we've lost as a society. And if so, then it'll be my turn to use But I don't really think so. I think there are plenty of people still out there with values similar to my own.

 

[luvsJack]

You know, I'd be happy to do it, but to get into a larger discussion about character and integrity here would really be beyond what's necessary for the scope of this thread.

I do believe that character and integrity show themselves even in the high school population - and younger. They are to be nurtured in the formative years so that as adults, they're there. This is, in part, what things like honoring-commitments-even-when-you-don't-want-to-but-just-because-it's-the-right-thing-to-do, help develop.

I dunno. Maybe this is something we've lost as a society. And if so, then it'll be my turn to use But I don't really think so. I think there are plenty of people still out there with values similar to my own.

I am not sure what you read, but what I SAID was that you should not judge someone from this one small instance in their life. Meaning that it is one choice in a whole life of choices and we would need to know a whole lot more about a person to make that determination. What I said had nothing at all to do with whether a person's character shows during their high school years.

I also never said that a person should not honor their commitments. As I have said before, my oldest son missed one baseball game from the age of 8 (and before if you count t-ball and coach pitch) through high school and college and that was because of his grandfather's funeral. He honored his commitment through illness, injuries, family emergencies and any other life event. I know all about commitment to a team or to a sport. BUT, had I ever given him an ultimatum and told him that he could not go to his game because of a family commitment--he would have missed his game. I just never took away his choice (which is what could have very well have happened with this girl--high school seniors still have parents to contend with, you know)

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I am not sure what you read, but what I SAID was that you should not judge someone from this one small instance in their life. Meaning that it is one choice in a whole life of choices and we would need to know a whole lot more about a person to make that determination. What I said had nothing at all to do with whether a person's character shows during their high school years.

I read what you said and that was my response to it. My POV is different than yours. That's still allowed, no?

 

[luvsJack]

I read what you said and that was my response to it. My POV is different than yours. That's still allowed, no?

Never said it wasn't. I am quite to content to say that I agree to disagree but it doesn't seem that we are agreeing to disagree on the same thing.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I am quite to content to say that I agree to disagree but it doesn't seem that we are agreeing to disagree on the same thing.

I think enough is said. Otherwise we may have to break out the dead horse smilie again.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Upon further thought

BUT, had I ever given him an ultimatum and told him that he could not go to his game because of a family commitment--he would have missed his game. I just never took away his choice

Let me ask you this.

If this same son - who'd missed just one game ever, and, assuming he's a high school senior about to graduate, literally hours away from beginning his life as a man, came to you after you gave him said ultimatum, and said, "Mom, I love you and I know you want me to go to ____, but my team needs me that afternoon and I need to be there with them. I know my being there is important to you and I promise I will come directly there when the games are over, but this is what I need to do", that you would still expect him to miss his game?

If you say yes, then this is where you and I truly differ. Because under those same circumstances there is NO WAY on earth that I would expect him to be anywhere other than at that game with his team. And I would further thank God I had such an admirable man for a son and would also give myself a pat on the back for instilling such values in him - enough so that he withstood the high pressure of going against his mother's wishes simply because, in his heart, he felt it was the right thing to do.

 

[DizBelle]

I am sorry that you can't conceive a team where this may be possible. I did not take a side at all re: the situation you were in, or the girl. All I said was that I was grateful that my children are on teams where I feel the parent would understand and are like-minded to myself.

Tonight, my DS is missing a game that may determine if his team will be advancing into state finals for his soccer team. He is missing to be at his sister's award ceremony. The coach didn't get upset, no words were exchanged with parents at all. Contrary to what you may believe these parents agree with me 100% that my son belongs at the award ceremony. And if it means that I am "high minded" because I feel that a child and family needs to make decisions that may not be popular with other parents, than go ahead and keep your opinion of me. I know that the soccer parents DO NOT have this opinion and that is what counts. I hope your daughter does well in the tournament. That is what is really important, yes.

What if the actions of some other child or their parents prevented your daughter from getting this award? Would you feel differently?

Why have you decided that DD's award ceremony is more important or valuable than DS's game? Why isn't DD missing the award ceremony to attend DS's future determining game? What makes DS's effort less important than DD's effort?

What criteria were used to determine which event was more important?

 

[luvsJack]

Upon further thought


Let me ask you this.

If this same son - who'd missed just one game ever, and, assuming he's a high school senior about to graduate, literally hours away from beginning his life as a man, came to you after you gave him said ultimatum, and said, "Mom, I love you and I know you want me to go to ____, but my team needs me that afternoon and I need to be there with them. I know my being there is important to you and I promise I will come directly there when the games are over, but this is what I need to do", that you would still expect him to miss his game?

If you say yes, then this is where you and I truly differ. Because under those same circumstances there is NO WAY on earth that I would expect him to be anywhere other than at that game with his team. And I would further thank God I had such an admirable man for a son and would also give myself a pat on the back for instilling such values in him - enough so that he withstood the high pressure of going against his mother's wishes simply because, in his heart, he felt it was the right thing to do.

He wouldn't do that because he would know that if I told him he had to miss a game then for some reason I had no choice but to ask him to miss. I never asked him to miss a game, even missing the day of the funeral was totally his choice. But, I know of a lot of parents that did expect their kids to miss when other family obligations came up and the kids were not given much of a choice. We do not know all of the circumstances going on with this girl.

Missing one game in a lifetime of games does not make a less than admirable young man or woman. Way too much iimportance is being put on this one tournament in this one girl's life. Being a teamplayer on an athletic team is important, but being a teamplayer within a family is more important.

 

[DizBelle]

IMHO - this girl doesn't understand the concept of a team and shouldn't have been on a team sport to begin with.

Even though golf is largely individual, the individual's efforts make up the team result and therefore make it a team sport (in this case).

 

[Ceila]

Like it or not, character speaks for itself.

While I agree with this statement, the simple fact is that without knowing more information, you cannot judge the character of the girl the OP is talking about. All you know is that she is not playing in the tournament but is attending her party. You don't even know if it was her decision! For all you know, her parents could have made the decision against her wishes.

 

[AshleyW]

IMHO - this girl doesn't understand the concept of a team and shouldn't have been on a team sport to begin with.

Even though golf is largely individual, the individual's efforts make up the team result and therefore make it a team sport (in this case).

So based on this ONE incident, she doesn't understand the concept of a team? Even though she is going to college on a scholarship to play soccer (a team sport), has done fine otherwise in golf as far as we know, and has even won awards for her achievements in athletics ... but yet doesn't know the concept of a team? Please. I'll assume then that you have NEVER broken any sort of commitment whatsoever then, right? Wait. This is the DIS. I suppose I already have my answer, eh?

 

[Toad_Passenger]

IMHO - this girl doesn't understand the concept of a team and shouldn't have been on a team sport to begin with.

Even though golf is largely individual, the individual's efforts make up the team result and therefore make it a team sport (in this case).

I'm sure she understands the concept of a team. She has a scholarship to play Soccer in college, which is one of the biggest "Team" sports around. In addition, her school has also awarded her efforts on the field. I hardly think she missed the idea about being a "team" player.

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

What if the actions of some other child or their parents prevented your daughter from getting this award? Would you feel differently?

Why have you decided that DD's award ceremony is more important or valuable than DS's game? Why isn't DD missing the award ceremony to attend DS's future determining game? What makes DS's effort less important than DD's effort?

What criteria were used to determine which event was more important?

Actually this is very easy for me to answer. DS plays on a team with 17 very talented players who each play a small part in the "whole" of the team. This team succeeds with or without absent players because it was set up that way, on the premise that a child should always follow the family, school, sports rule. My DS's future will not be determined by a single "soccer" game.

On the other hand, DD's achievements in school were comprised of "her" hard work for 4 years as an individual (for the most part, I realize that she may have had certain assignments in groups) but ultimately her grades were achieved by her work as an individual. She was being honored for this hard work. She has 1 ceremony for this achievement, not a 16+ game season.

Ultimately, I believe that my children will succeed in life from their education first and foremost. That is why I have included articles about percentages of children that will go to college on sports scholarships. The vast majority of all children that go to college do so on academic scholarships and grants.

Forgot to answer your first question: If someone prevented DD from getting the award (and this is really the only feasable way) would mean they earned it and deserved the award more than my daughter. I would have no hard feelings for this person, but definetely would be happy for them, and would comfort my daughter if she needed me.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

While I agree with this statement, the simple fact is that without knowing more information, you cannot judge the character of the girl the OP is talking about. All you know is that she is not playing in the tournament but is attending her party. You don't even know if it was her decision! For all you know, her parents could have made the decision against her wishes.

Once again, I don't need to judge it. Her actions speak for themselves.

This is not a 12 yr old girl. This is a graduating high school senior - essentially an adult - who has a committment to a team at a tournament that may determine the futures of some of the other players on that team.

Versus a party.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

He wouldn't do that

Come on, luvsJack, that's not what I asked you.

 

[SeaShelley]

Once again, I don't need to judge it. Her actions speak for themselves.

This is not a 12 yr old girl. This is a graduating high school senior - essentially an adult - who has a committment to a team at a tournament that may determine the futures of some of the other players on that team.

Versus a party.

Seriously?? I think you are going WAY out on a limb by saying that her not participating in this tournament may determine her teammates' futures.

As for you not judging....you should have just left it at that. No one on this message board should be judging anyone. All we have been given are the OP's version of the story....not even facts. She still has no idea why the party was scheduled when it was, what the daughter's reaction was, how the decision to go forward with the party was made, or anything else for that matter. And the reason she doesn't know this is because IT'S NONE OF HER BUSINESS!

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Once again, I don't need to judge it. Her actions speak for themselves.

This is not a 12 yr old girl. This is a graduating high school senior - essentially an adult - who has a committment to a team at a tournament that may determine the futures of some of the other players on that team.

Versus a party.

That doesn't mean that her parents aren't still in control of her life, since she is still living in their house, by their rules. Again, as I've learned through the wise posts by 'bicker' you cannot apply your life to someone else's, expecting to be right.

Also, what may seem like a "party" to some, based on their own experiences, may be different to this family. When you say "versus a party" it certainly molds things to your side of the issue, and cheapens what may be something special for this family.

I could easily turn it around and say, "versus a family commitment." See what I did there?

 

[Ceila]

her actions speak for themselves.

No. They. Don't.

 

[DizBelle]

So based on this ONE incident, she doesn't understand the concept of a team? Even though she is going to college on a scholarship to play soccer (a team sport), has done fine otherwise in golf as far as we know, and has even won awards for her achievements in athletics ... but yet doesn't know the concept of a team? Please. I'll assume then that you have NEVER broken any sort of commitment whatsoever then, right? Wait. This is the DIS. I suppose I already have my answer, eh?

You would be hard pressed to find anything I didn't do that I said I was going to do. There would have to be extenuating circumstances (my own illness, death in the family, etc). There is no way I would schedule a party on top of something else I had committed to.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

You know, a lot of these scenarios don't have to be as black and white as some here would like to portray them.

I've said it before: committment to family and committment to school and teams don't have to necessarily be mutually exclusive of one another.

This whole argument of "we don't know the circumstances of the party" and all this IRL would likely be moot because many times, people can fulfill their obligations to both groups. And if that's not possible (which would probably be pretty rare), then yes, they have to make a choice. I would hope that choice would be one of honor. (I say to Team, you say to Family; I say Tomato, you say tomahto, to save you the trouble.)

The circumstances we were given here is that there is a tournament on Friday afternoon and the graduation party is scheduled for Friday at 5pm. Is there a reason that she couldn't attend both? Nope, guess we don't know. It could well be that Grandpa turns into a pumpkin after dark, so yes, if that were the case, than by all means she would need to be there before that occurs. And yes, I'm being sarcastic to make the point of ridiculousness that there would be such dire circumstances at this girl's home that night during the party that she couldn't arrive two hours later than planned, after she fulfilled her obligation to play golf with her team that day.

I believe that the committment you honor today turns in to the commitments you honor tomorrow, whether that translates to teams, school, work, marriage, children, parents, what have you. Honor has to start somewhere.

Those that feel it's just a game will probably never see eye to eye with those that feel the picture is bigger than that.