Why the Bashing?

[CasualObserver]

To say that NeXT was a joke is completely uninformed. The technology was far ahead of it's time. When Jobs came back to Apple he brought NeXT with him and it was rolled into OS-X (which has been hailed as the best Apple OS ever).

And this is coming from a dedicated PC user. However, I do give credit where it's due and Apple and Jobs deserves credit. Apple puts out great products and NeXT was an incredible technological leap. There is nothing wrong with being ahead of your time.

Apple's problem is that in the past they have tried to be the OS developer AND the hardware manufacturer which kept prices high and competition out of the equation. Business users spoke with their pocketbook and went for a lower cost option. If Apple had gone the Microsoft route and decided to be an OS developer first and a hardware company second, they would be dominating the marketplace.

Apple then went through the John Sculley and the merry-go-round of CEO's where they didn't have any real objective. Jobs came back and using the power of great product design made the Mac something that people wanted. The IPOD is another product that completely dominates it's market.

Casual Observer

 

[jcodespoti]

If Apple is such a great company, with such a great product, with such great leadership in Jobs, why is it trading at 1/4 the price of IBM?
Face it, Jobs=Eisner.


Jobs has been called and described by many as being just like Eisner. Arrogant and condescending.

In my opinion, and its just that, Eisner (Disney CO) walked away from Pixar because the relationship just did not make fiscal sense.

If Apple had gone the Microsoft route and decided to be an OS developer first and a hardware company second, they would be dominating the marketplace

Then why didn't Jobs have that foresight? If he's such a great leader? If is a very big word in this case.

 

[CasualObserver]

Originally posted by jcodespoti
If Apple is such a great company, with such a great product, with such great leadership in Jobs, why is it trading at 1/4 the price of IBM?
Face it, Jobs=Eisner.

Comparing the stock price difference between IBM and Apple is comparing apples and oranges. At least compare similar companies - being the the computer business doesn't make them equal. IBM is a much larger company than Apple. How about Pixar's stock price? Hmmm, $65 or so? Wal-Mart is trading around $55 or so. Does that make Jobs a better CEO than Wal-Mart's? After all, the stock price of a little company like Pixar is much higher than Wal-Mart. So, let's just agree to compare apples to apples. How 'bout it?

Jobs has been called and described by many as being just like Eisner. Arrogant and condescending.

I never said Jobs was a Saint. He does, however, understands that making something great is the road to success. Bumps along the way not withstanding.

In my opinion, and its just that, Eisner (Disney CO) walked away from Pixar because the relationship just did not make fiscal sense.

I won't argue your opinion. I have my own. Opinions about what happened when neither one of us were around don't really matter much.

Then why didn't Jobs have that foresight? If he's such a great leader? If is a very big word in this case.

Can you name anyone who can predict the future? There isn't a single soul who can. We all make educated guesses. At the time, it was the generally accepted idea that the money was in the hardware and the software was just the bait. IBM (remember you made a big deal about Apple versus IBM's stock) gave away the store to Microsoft by not valuing the OS. They were operating under the old, mainframe sales strategy. At the time, IBM was the gold standard and everyone followed their lead. Apple went the same direction. It turns out the hardware is the bait and the software is the gold. Hardware margins are 1-2% at best. Cost control is the only way to make money. Dell does this by not having a warehouse full of components. Software margins are around 42%.
Did Apple make a mistake? I think so. Does it make Jobs an idiot? I think his overall track record shows he isn't.

You may like Eisner and hate Jobs. You may hate them both. However, to say that the technical achievements of NeXT are a joke is, as I said, uninformed. To discount Jobs turnaround of Apple is intellectually dishonest - equally, to discount Eisner's early days at Disney with Wells is also intellectually dishonest.

My beef with Eisner is that he started believing his own press that he and he alone was responsible for everything good. His well publicized talent for digging in his heels to stay put at the expense of everyone else in the company is just one factor in my dislike of the man. The more I learn, the more I wouldn't want to sit in the same room as the guy.

Given Eisner's stock position and his recent decisions, I am starting to lean in the position of Eisner making Disney ripe for a takeover so he can sell his position at a premium. However, that's substantially off-topic.

Casual Observer

 

[crusader]

Jobs came back and using the power of great product design made the Mac something that people wanted.

That's right. You could now purchase a Mac in red and yellow and pink and blue....................purple and orange and greeeeeeeen.

Roy may be seeing a rainbow right now but it ain't leading to any pot of gold.

 

[crusader]

He does, however, understands that making something great is the road to success.

Let's be careful to place Jobs on such a high pedestal.

This article may provide some pretty good insight on why we should consider taking a very cautionary approach to such leadership.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/78/jobs.html

Jobs "innovative" products have this nasty little habit of creating image problems in his industry which I wouldn't construe as successful by any means. Here's some from a few years back:

http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/print/0,23102,3328140,00.html

 

[Razor Roman]

So anyone here think the only difference between Steve Jobs and Nolan Bushnell is luck?



Yes, I like pouring Kerosene on a fire.

 

[jcodespoti]

My beef with Eisner is that he started believing his own press that he and he alone was responsible for everything good. His well publicized talent for digging in his heels to stay put at the expense of everyone else in the company is just one factor in my dislike of the man. The more I learn, the more I wouldn't want to sit in the same room as the guy.

Agreed. I will not argue/discuss the whole Jobs thing anymore. I hope that Disney can turn around the image thing (at least around here).
I must say that if Eisner is hurting the future of Disney (i.e. giving up quality for profits) then when the crap hits the fan I'll short the company and sell my DVC.

Joe

 

[CasualObserver]

Nice debating with you Joe. I'm glad we came to common ground.

Casual Observer

 

[Jeff in BigD]

Originally posted by crusader
That's right. You could now purchase a Mac in red and yellow and pink and blue....................purple and orange and greeeeeeeen.

How about an all-in-one computer with a G3 processor for under a grand? At the time the going rate for the average PC was around $3,000.

As far as the colors are concerned, biege isn't all that appealing if you ask me.


The personal computer market pretty much likes to stay with the status quo. It's someone like Jobs that shakes things up & innovates new ideas. Sure, once the idea is out there & Apple proves there's a market for it, the other companies will jump on it & usually produce an inferior copy (eMachine anyone?). iTunes is another. Notice how other companies are trying to follow suit? If it weren't for jobs I suspect that PCs would still start at around $3,000, be an ugly biege & the processor speeds would be much slower than they are now. Shrek aside, is there any other 3D animation product out there that can even be compared to (or mistaken for) a Pixar product?


Jobs is about innovation, not the financial bottom line. ME is only about the bottom line & a lot of times it's at the expense of quality. Seems to me like this company was built by a guy who liked to take risks & set the bar much, much higher. If Jobs becomes CEO then we'd see some really great things from WDI, we'd likely have more accessability to the Disney library of media & with Disney's legal team we likely wouldn't see as much "borrowing" from Jobs' ideas as we see now.

Having been a Comcast customer up until last month, I can tell you that them taking over would be a bad thing. It's likely that the parks would continue to suffer & with them owning ESPN they'd probably start to strong arm the other companies in order to continue carrying their stations.