Why off-site vs. On-site

[HeatherC]

Brian - I agree totally with you. We've been lucky enough to rent 4 bedroom homes and villas for about $60-$80 a night.

If you do a SkyAuction condo for $300 a week, that's a lot of vacations that you will have before you can even come close to paying off the same in a DVC. (Not talking a studio...we are a family of 5 and would kill each other after 2 days crammed together.

Heather

 

[MiaSRN62]

Brian says :However, a DVC purchase is cost-effective only compared to renting other DVC units. But, if you are comparing a DVC points purchase for a 2BR villa to most any other 2BR timeshare unit in Orlando of similar quality---either rented or purchased---then DVC is more costly by factors of 2 to 4, or more.

Heather says :Brian - I agree totally with you. We've been lucky enough to rent 4 bedroom homes and villas for about $60-$80 a night.

If you do a SkyAuction condo for $300 a week, that's a lot of vacations that you will have before you can even come close to paying off the same in a DVC.

Brian and Heather ~
I was really referring to Faye's mention of her desire to stay onsite, in DVC, BWV with a BW view. If this is important or desirable to someone, then I feel it's worth it and you do not have to have Rockerfeller or Trump as a last name by any means.

We find there are added perks to staying onsite in DVC---no doubt about that at all. We own both offsite timeshare as well as DVC. If we were to turn around and sell our DVC today, we would actually make money from our original purchase prices back in 2000 when I look what the resale market is doing---such as one of the DIS sponsors--the Timeshare Store. Considering, we bought DVC when we had 42 years worth of stays....I say it's cost effective for people like us who enjoy vacationing in WDW every year and value the perks of onsite accomodations.

Obviously Faye saw some attraction to staying onsite in a DVC and I was addressing the fact that DVC can be cost effective to those people who enjoy the 2 bedroom villas, as well as the onsite advantages.

Sure you can stay offsite cheaper. No doubt and no argument. I think what I stated in my previous post was misunderstood. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough about it. I just wanted to express that it's not a millionaire's dream to own DVC and enjoy onsite amenities. I do feel the onsite perks have some value that is not as easily measured when comparing offsite villas (such as no need for car rentals, early/late park entry etc). It's difficult to put a monetary amount on that when comparing it to a $300/week rental. If you just want basic roomy accomodations without too much concern about onsite amenities (which we often find invaluable), then skyauction and similar would be the way to go. But we see an added value to staying onsite in 2 bedroom villas (and sometimes 2 studios to save points) and I think that's what Faye saw, though she stated it wasn't in her budget. I just feel if one is interested, checking out the resale market on DVC's......not as bad as some may think (for those that see an attraction to roomy accomodations AND onsite amenities). That's all. But if you look at bare bones dollars and cents-----offsite is going to be cheaper. Again, no argue...no debate.

Alot of those good skyauction bids ---and I'm talking about the really low $300/week prices---aren't they usually more last minute grabs ? I'm saying this based on frequenting these boards for many years and reading about peoples' experience with skyauction. If I'm wrong about this.....I'm selling my offsite timeshare and booking skyauction 2 bedroom villas for $300/week ! But I need to book 11-12 months in advance. My dh and I have very little flexibility with our vacations so I would be so nervous bidding on one of these low cost weeks only 2-3 months ahead of time. That's too much stress for us. But I am sure this works for those that have more flexibility in their schedules.

 

[FayeW]

I've done the number crunching on DVC quite a few times (as you said, Maria, there is a certain lure there for me) and every time it comes out that we are still better off financially doing what we are doing now, which is renting via the Ready Set Go auctions at skyauction. If and when that inventory dries up, or becomes too expensive then of course we will have to rethink it.

As it stands now, to stay in a 2bdrm condo at BWV, preferred view, for the full 7 days I would need 270 points. The maintenance fees are $4.85 per point so $1309 per year. Right now I can win an auction at skyauction for $350. total, so I could have at least 3 vacations for the cost of just one year's maintenance fee. Buying less points and banking/borrowing to go every 2nd or 3rd year doesn't appeal to me either, as I am still paying more than I need to just in maintenance fees. I am not willing to stay in lesser accomodations (studios) or have 1 or both of my kids sleeping on a pull out couch...not for that kind of money! I am also not willing to stay only Sun-Thurs to save points as that would mean changing hotels 3 times on a typical Sat-Sat stay.

So, I want what I want and I am not willing to compromise just for the priviledge of staying onsite. It really doesn't seem that magical to me. I look forward to the day when I can book a vacation without worrying about the total but that day is a long way off for us, and frankly, I don't know if even then I would be willing to pay those kind of prices. The reality for us is that if the first trip hadn't been on a budget, there would never have been a second or third trip. We have 5 days and 5 plus features left on our MYW tickets so I know that there will be at least 1 or 2 more trips, and honestly, I don't expect to spend more that $2500 per trip for the four of us, and that includes airfare and rental car, and a few TS meals. I admit it: we are willing to be inconvenienced to save a buck.

 

[Brian Noble]

To put it in concrete terms: my analysis, with cost of capital at 8%, is that an OKW 2BR week in Magic season (my typical dates), purchased resale, costs approximately $3000 per week of use. A 2BR for the same time in Bonnet Creek---a location every bit as convenient as OKW, but without the Disney perks---costs about $1500 per week of use, purchased resale.

Interestingly, this almost exactly matches the rental prices these units command.

For many many people, presumably yourself included, the value of a week in a Disney resort, instead of one in an equivalent location, and of comparable quality, but without the Disney name, is worth $1500 and then some. But, it's not worth that to me.

The added value of the Disney perks, for me personally, is not nearly as great as many of the other purposes to which I could put $1500. It's not a matter of affording it or not; we have the disposable income to buy DVC. We just don't find value in it. To be fair, my position on this issue is an unpopular one here on DIS, especially outside the Orlando Hotels board. But, everyone has to make that evaluation for themselves.

For what it's worth, I do enjoy staing at DVC resorts. But, only when I trade into them with my summer Wisconsin week---again, at about half price, or usually less.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Faye says :So, I want what I want and I am not willing to compromise just for the priviledge of staying onsite. It really doesn't seem that magical to me.

Understandable (but we don't feel we're compromising with DVC).....I guess when you stated you would like to stay in BWV 2 bedroom with BW view (if the budget allowed) it made me think differently as far as your vacation expectations went. DVC is definitely for a person who desires and values a different type of disney vacation. Nothing wrong with offsite---we own offsite---but we find we enjoy ourselves much more when we stay onsite.

Brian says :A 2BR for the same time in Bonnet Creek---a location every bit as convenient as OKW, but without the Disney perks---costs about $1500 per week of use, purchased resale.

And respectfully, to me, it's not just based on location. Our Vistana timeshare is a mere 10 min away from the parks. The onsite perks are the real hidden gem as far as staying onsite. No need to rent a car, kids can come and go as they want using convenient disney transportation or walk from parks, Extra Magic Hours (invaluable during busy times for us), package delivery to room......as far as we're concerned, you just can't put a dollar amount on that.


Thanks for working out the stats Brian. I'm no way near an analytical person and I just don't break our vacation choices down to dollars and cents (though I can understand and respect how some prefer to do so). Like I said, all I know is we paid $10K for DVC back in 2000. It's paid off and all we have is approx $650/year in maintenance. We rarely, if ever, stay in studios. The "type" of vacation DVC gives us (and we stay in OKW, BWV, Vero Beach, VWL....) is far beyond our expectations of when we first bought. There is a definite "value" in staying onsite for us. We do see the "magic" in staying onsite. It's a much different vacation for us. And I don't believe you have to be rich to own DVC. In fact I know this Our only regret, is that we didn't buy DVC sooner.

When we stay at Vistana (our offsite place), we're always saying "when are we going back to stay in Disney ?" But I fully understand that if it doesn't make total financial sense to some peoples' budget, that offsite is the way to go. Can't argue with $300/week---- though we never ever paid that for an offsite 2 bedroom.

These are the "offsite" boards and definitely reflect on average, the opinions and feelings of those who prefer to stay offsite. Nothing wrong with that. I just feel it's a different mindset and a different approach to the disney vacation. Nothing wrong with either.
Let's move on and continue with the "pros" of offsite...........

 

[HeatherC]

Maria - I guess I was simply responding to the "financial" aspect of owning DVC. I was comparing the cost of DVC ownership....or actually any timeshare....to the cost of renting...for our particular family.

For us we have always found it financially cheaper to rent...and in larger units than I would ever have at Disney. Keep in mind that I am just thinking of actual dollars spent.

For instance, we just stayed in June in a 4 bedroom villa for $60 a night. I booked this through an owner about six months beforehand. When you compare just the dollars involved, there is no way DVC or many other timeshares can come close to that for a unit of that size.

When you talk about the value of DVC, I understand what you mean. Please don't take my comments to mean that I don't believe there is any value in that. I know a lot of people who do own DVC and love it. To them it offers tremendous value.

I guess you can compare it to kind of like owning some other thing like a car. One person may feel they are getting more value in a car priced at $10k and another may feel the value is more there in one priced at $30k because they may feel they don't have to make as many repairs or prefer a more luxurious feel. Am I making sense?


I love the "idea" of owning a timeshare, particularly DVC. But when we look at what we pay for an average vacation on lodging, our costs don't come close to a DVC purchase... or even the maintenance fees at other timeshares. I also realize that Orlando is a special market. The same lodging costs don't always hold true in other places. But since we were talking about DVC, for now I'm just talking about Orlando.

I am also a planner and part of the fun for me is finding the best deal around and trying new places each time we go somewhere. Most people, however, I don't believe care to spend that amount of time researching and planning a vacation. In that case, a timeshare of any kind is an ideal "value". You know what your costs are and can have things planned well in advance. I am just "travel deal" obsessed!

Here's to happy travelers everywhere no matter where you sleep!

Heather

 

[Ozymoe]

We went to wdw for my very first trip we stayed on-site at Animal Kingdom Lodge and loved it now for our next trip we were wondering why you all stay off-site vs. on-site. We are planning 5 trips for next year and each will be very long trips but will not interfer with school as little as possible. We will only stay deluxe so it can get pretty spendy. Thank you so much

Hi Katie,

The reason I stay off-site is my 2BR unit is a quarter mile down the road from Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort and it costs a lot less.

We are Wyndham Resort owners and so we stay at Bonnet Creek. They keep me in my same unit for however long I vacation, so I only have to unpack once. On this upcoming trip I will be staying from September 8 until two days after New Years. I am treated to Epcot's fireworks from my balcony every night.

The unit has two bedrooms, two bathrooms, full kitchen, diningroom, livingroom, washer/dryer, and jacuzzi.

The resort has a lovely lake, two smimming pools (another is being added), play areas (one a children's interactive water fun area), a lazy river, gas barbeque grills, sand/volleyball area, complimentary miniature golf (championship 18 hole regular golf course is planned for 2009 I believe).

There are many activities to keep guests occupied at the resort...lol...I have even learned to play Texas Hold 'Em poker! There are children's activities and family pool parties as well, also a complimentary breakfast on Monday mornings.

There is a complimentary shuttle operating that takes guests to/from the Disney parks. Actually, last fall I only used my car to get groceries and go to Weight Watchers over in Celebration...oh, and to pick up and deliver my husband and various family and friends from the airport. Bonnet Creek has really made the shuttle times all-encompassing and convenient! I attend the Epcot Food & Wine Festival each day for the entire 6 weeks and it saves me so much time...most guests appreciate the fact that there is no Disney parking lot fee when using the shuttle. I have an AP so the parking fee isn't an issue, but the convenience and time-saving factor is prime.

We've owned Bonnet Creek since 2003 (pre-construction) and are platinum level (which means we own a million points). The initial investment (over the years starting in the early 90's) has been $87K. Our yearly maintenence fees are just under $5K for 1,130,000 points.

Because we are platinum I have the option to book less than 60 days out and recieve a 50% discount on points needed and also upgrade to the next larger unit size. I am able to do this a good deal in the fall (not summer, not Christmas and not spring break at BC lol) For instance, the weeks in a 2BR I have booked from September 8 to October 27 are costing me approximately $1,437...or a bit less than $30 a night.

The deeds are in a trust for our children so they can each have lots of vacation time/places available to them and their children after we are gone. They will only ever have to pay the maintenence fees.

I'm a Disney nut so this has been a good deal for our family. I spend several weeks staying in Washington DC with Wyndham as well. Lol...I tell my husband Washington is my "new Disneyworld" although I don't think I could ever give up the real Disneyworld, especially the Food & Wine Festival.

I hope this explains why some of us choose to vacation off-site...although as far as Bonnet Creek goes, it doesn't feel off-site to us since it's closer to some of the parks than some of the Disney resorts! ...and for the price difference in comparable lodgings at Disney...we could eat at Victoria's and Alberts every night and still come out ahead!

 

[Brian Noble]

And respectfully, to me, it's not just based on location.

Of course---that's my point. Each person has to value the onsite benefits themselves, consider the extra costs incurred in obtaining those benefits, and make a decision as to whether or not they are desireable. I don't expect you, or anyone else, to agree with me. In fact, my evaluation---that they are not, on balance, worth the cost---is at best a small minority opinion here on DIS. Heck, it's barely a majority opinion even here on the unwashed offsiter's board!

you just can't put a dollar amount on that.

Ah, but you can! In my example, it costs $1500 per week. You feel that the benefits are worth more than $1500. I feel that they are worth less. That's how the free market works!

the weeks in a 2BR I have booked from September 8 to October 27 are costing me approximately $1,437

I believe you are ignoring opportunity costs. At your $87K/1M pts purchase cost (a well-negotiated price, btw), your total cost per thousand is about $11.96---8% of the $87/K purchase price, which is $6.96, plus the $5 MF.

A PtVIP-window, upgraded 2BR, Value Season week requires 42K points. Total cost for the week is about $500, or about $71 for the night. The October High season weeks are a bit more---roughly $750 per week, a shade over $100 per night. Still, you are doing very very well with your ownership. My resale deed is not VIP, so I do not get the 60-day discount nor the upgrade, but it carries a much lower total cost, including lost opportunity, of $4.75/K. I need 112K in Value season, for a cost of about $532. But, I need 189K in High season, for a cost of nearly $900.

 

[rosiep]

So far mostly all the responsers citing reasons for staying off-site rent or own units. I guess I fall into the minority...I stay off-site in a hotel. Usually in DTD.
While I think the Disney Resorts are beautiful the only Disney hotel that has ever struck me as truly magical was the Disneyland Hotel in California. I do not like the sprawl of most Florida resorts...spacious outside...but cramped inside..at least at the Moderates and the Value resorts. Money is an issue regarding the Deluxes...I just can't justify spending that kind of money for a room...I can enjoy the resort grounds and restaurants if I want to...then return the my room in DTD to sleep. I wouldn't utilize early entry because I'm not a morning person and well...this is my vacation. The DTD hotel busses run fairly regularly to the parks and the only other perk I can think of is the Magical Express bus...but I prefer a towncar without having to wait for other people or stops..(and I have it in the budget to do so because I haven't spent it all on my hotel! )
So, that's some of my reasons..not to mention my favorite one and that's Room Service! I understand only the CSR offers real room service (among the moderates)...and for me a vacation is not a vacation unless I've had breakfast in my PJ's!!!!

 

[MiaSRN62]

Ah, but you can! In my example, it costs $1500 per week. You feel that the benefits are worth more than $1500. I feel that they are worth less. That's how the free market works!

Brian ~
The onsite perks are worth their weight in gold to us !!!
I don't feel I'm anywhere near as good at you at figuring out long-range costs. But here's how I see our DVC purchase made in 2000.

Initial cost for 300 points made in year 2000 = $20K
estimated maintenance fees of $1400/year= $58,800
$1876 per year average per stay.....even if I'm off, I don't see how you're getting $3,000/year to stay there. But this is perhaps because I bought back in 2000 when points were like $66 or $67 each ? I recall we had about 42 years of ownership when we bough so that would throw the whole equation off for people buying now---though the new DVC resorts are starting back at 50 years.

To have our family members come and go at will without one of us having to drive them back. We calculated a total of 45 min to 1 hour to get either IN or OUT of the MK. Over the years, one of our kids got sick....it was so easy for one parent to hop on a bus and head back to the resort. Disney busses run on average every 10-20 min. Getting into the park at 8 am and getting to ride 3-5 attractions before the crowds come in----priceless. Summer crowds are the worst ! So, for us, if you want to put a monetary price on it----yep....it's worth it. These perks can literally make or break a vacation. We had friends who stayed offsite and just got back. They said they spent a full day in the MK and got on two rides due to the crowds one day. Another day, all the popular rides (Soarin, Test Track, Mission Mars etc) had 90+ min waits and no Fast Passes left by the time they got there at 11:30 am ! They said they were never going back it was so bad. They are now talking about DVC having cooled down a bit .....lol

But like you and Heather stated.....each person knows what is right for them. No doubt, based on money alone, offsite is a better deal. I'll repeat...you'll get no argument from me there. But we'd rather go for "quality" vs "quantity" sometimes.
PS: we also go in offseason some years (Sept, Oct, Dec, Jan) and can get two stays on our points. I will admit "Magic" season is pricer (point-wise).

Respect to all and everyone's opinions........

 

[spiceycat]

okay where in today's market are you making 8%?

secondly if you were to invest the money then and only then can you call it investment opportunity cost. I would spend it on my WDW vacations regardless.

brought back in 1993, then we even got free tickets!!!

So I can and do stay at OKW for maintence costs. - so 8*5*$4.40 = $176 for 5 days at OKW in a studio. that say I can rent the same place for $400 and up. Which lately I have been doing.

a 2-bedroom would be $484 - 22*5*$4.40 - for the same 5 days. these are both in offseason - adventure season.

all the other (except SSR) DVC resorts maintence costs are higher.

like going to EMH using DVC transportation - so no problems trying to find a parking space then remembering where it is.

also love offsite - especially for non-WDW things. this next trip was surpose to be offsite. well then got All stars sport with free dinning, then AKV opened up and got SW flight. So now staying only at WDW. With Disney and DME - don't even need a car rental or pay for airport transfer.

changed my II exchange to May, 2008.

also own another timeshares (besides Westgate that I hate and never will get my money out of) - that you would approve. It is on the beach in PCB, FL - has a great view of the water - is floating so I can still pick my week - plus it was cheap $1,500 - maintence fees run around $400 to $500 - so a week on the beach in a 2-bedroom unit for $434 (this year).

that said my family (includes my mother and my brother's family) just love WDW.

DVC adds something that offsite just can't to a WDW trip.

now if you are talking SW or US/IOA definitely don't stay at WDW for those trips. also love to stay offsite when shopping.

you don't want to stay fri or sat in a DVC unit - just not worth the extra cost. Okay that my opinion. the entire time have owned DVC, think it was only twice, stayed in a fri or sat and both times say never again.

one thing some of you are probably are doing is comparing a 1-bedroom DVC to a regular WDW room - well you can't. will not work. If you want to compare a WDW resort room, then you got to use a studio. Fair is fair.

this does compare opportunity cost - DVC looks pretty nice when compared to a WDW deluxe resort which is what it is.

http://mysite.verizon.net/brian_siu/timeshare/timeshare.html

http://www.timesharecostcalculator.com/

hey brian is that you - in the mysite one?

 

[crisi]

I don't think I saw this.

Disney Deluxe hotels are nice, but there are hotels that are as nice or nicer offsite - usually at half the room rate - but sometimes for as much. So if you are a Deluxe hotel snob, and Disney isn't quite meeting expectations, one of the offsite hotels may. Some of these hotels cater to much more of an adult convention crowd, so if you think there may be a few too many kids running around the Poly, an offsite convention hotel may be an option.

It isn't the "more space, less money" arguement. Its the "nicer hotel" arguement.

 

[Lisa P.]

Wow, Katie, 5 trips from Seattle to WDW/Orlando in one year's time and all will be "very long trips" but "not interfere with school," while staying "only deluxe." You're right, that "can get pretty spendy" alright! Whew!

For so much travel during prime school breaks, I'd definitely consider some offsite options in there - and save a bundle! On several trips, we've enjoyed a wonderful week at a deluxe offsite timeshare resort and added a couple days at an onsite deluxe hotel to soak up a little "Disney theme."

One reason that we prefer to spend most of our time offsite is actually just the opposite of the reason often cited for staying onsite! We get burnt out on the hyper-commercialized Disney marketing machine. On longer trips, it just gets too thick for us, truly! Disney this, Disney that... all the shopping, eating, costumes and music is repetitively "Disney" all the time ... and at Disney prices, to boot. My DH, especially, starts to feel as if the mice are constantly trying to nibble at his wallet. We like it that the offsite resort concierge services have been able to help us with BOTH onsite and offsite restaurant/attractions information, reservations and ticket purchases - whatever WE want. It's terrific that we save so much money on offsite but there are other advantages too.

 

[Brian Noble]

Initial cost for 300 points made in year 2000 = $20K
estimated maintenance fees of $1400/year= $58,800
$1876 per year average per stay.....even if I'm off, I don't see how you're getting $3,000/year to stay there.

The reason you are not getting the same figure is that you are ignoring the time value of money. In other words $20K in "year 2000" dollars is worth more than $20K "year 2042" dollars.

Mary Waring's excellent DVC analysis explains this really well, but I'll try to summarize it.
http://www.mousesavers.com/dvc.html#opportunity

The idea is that, you could purchase DVC, or you could invest the purchase price and use the income from that investment plus the annual DVC dues you would have paid anyway to just rent DVC points from some other owner. If you know how much your hypothetical investment will earn, you can compare these two alternatives directly and determine which one is more cost effective. This is an apples to apples comparison.

The tricky part is picking an earnings rate, and so you have to make some reasonable assumptions. If you just used the purchase price to buy savings bonds, you'd be keeping pace with inflation, earning about 3% tax-free on that $20K per year, or about $600. If you had invested it in a stock index fund, and gotten "average" returns of about 10%, you'd pay 1/5 of those earnings in capital gains taxes, so you would make about 8% per year.

I like to use the 8% number, to be conservative about the costs. And, at that rate of return, with current resale pricing, it is cheaper to rent from another owner if you can find points at $10 or less, but cheaper to buy if you can only find points to rent at $11 or higher. Here's the math: an OKW resale point costs $75. 8% return on $75 would be $6. Annual dues are about $4.24 if memory serves. So, the "real cost" of an OKW point is $10.24.

There are two more advantages to the renter, but I tend to ignore them, as I will explain.

First, at the expiration of the DVC term, the renter still has $20K in the bank. The DVC owner has only memories . However, the time horizon on expiration is far enough away---35 years even for the "earliest" expirations---that that residual value is dwarfed by the ongoing and opportunity costs, so I tend to ignore it. It doesn't change the results much, and just makes the computation harder.

Second, the renter has more flexibility. If for some reason the renter decides he doesn't want to go to DVC anymore, that's okay---he can use his investment proceeds for some other purpose. If the owner decides this, he must either rent, exchange, or sell his points interest. I ignore this too, because no one would ever want to stop coming to WDW.

That said, you seem to suggest that anyone who thinks about more than "just money" would agree with you:

No doubt, based on money alone, offsite is a better deal.

I'm not basing my decision on money alone. I am comparing the value, to me, of staying onsite to the cost of doing so, and I am finding the value wanting.

Different people value those benefits differently, and that's why Baskin Robins has 31 flavors.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy staying onsite. And, when I can do so via an II exchange, I am happy to do so. An exchange into DVC, after adding up all the costs and fees, ends up being a little more than an offsite stay plus rental car and parking. In that case, taking the exchange is an easy decision, even though we end up renting the car anyway. There is some value there for me, just not enough value to pay market rates.

 

[Brian Noble]

secondly if you were to invest the money then and only then can you call it investment opportunity cost. I would spend it on my WDW vacations regardless.

Pat, we've had this argument before. If you have the money to purchase a DVC interest without taking the loan, you can either purchase it, or you can invest it. In either case, you don't get to use the purchase price for anything else. So, you are simply wrong.

On the other hand, if you are taking out a loan, you can just use the loan interest rate, minus the mortgage tax deduction if eligible, and use that. It works out the same either way.

And, finally, the S&P 500 does return 10% long term. DVC is a long term purchase, so that seems to be a fair comparison.

 

[Lisa P.]

We are Wyndham Resort owners and so we stay at Bonnet Creek... I will be staying from September 8 until two days after New Years.

Okay! 5 longer trips, staying at a Disney Deluxe hotel and I wasn't jealous... but THIS! Yes, the ugly green monster definitely paused over me as I read this!!!!

Wow! (big sigh) How wonderful for you! And in a 2BR w/fireworks view - mmm, nice. I'll love to read how it gets even better in two years, once the new Wyndham Hotel and Spa opens on the Bonnet Creek property, as well as the new designer golf course and the new Waldorf-Astoria Hotel. These will all be within the Bonnet Creek development, an easy walk from the timeshare, with several nice restaurants, shopping and spa services right there. BC has limited shuttle service to the Disney parks now, which they've improved somewhat in the last year, and I'd expect that to improve further once these other resorts open in the same development too. Target dates are in late 2009, I believe.

I spend several weeks staying in Washington DC with Wyndham as well.

We've enjoyed two excellent stays there and hope to return sometime. The many good options for using this timeshare within it's system of resorts are terrific for our family's needs too.

 

[Brian Noble]

It isn't the "more space, less money" arguement. Its the "nicer hotel" arguement.

You are absolutely right. I just priced out the Ritz Carlton for our upcoming trip. Rooms start at $429---less than the Monoral or Epcot resorts for the same time period. The level of service at a deluxe Disney resort, while good, does not even approach the level of service at the Ritz. For example, I do not believe that Disney has cabana boys who will bring me drinks poolside. At least, not yet.

 

[Brian Noble]

There are two more advantages to the renter

There is also one advantage to the purchaser. Disney DVC prices have more than kept pace with inflation over the years. The purchaser gets to lock in that rate (and, hence, the basis for opportunity cost), and only the annual dues will increase over time. The renter faces the prospect of inflation on the entire rental price. Going forward, the balance favors the owner.

Spiceycat is an illustrative example of this. The cost basis for those points in 1993 was $57.50. At 8%, opportunity is $4.60, plus the $4.24 MFs, and her "real cost" is only $8.84, while someone who buys today---at the same resort, with a shorter "life span" of the points---is paying an extra $1.40 per point this year.

So, spicey could rent at $10, and be earning nearly 10% on the purchase price. That's comparable to a stock index fund, but with much less risk.

 

[hinodis]

You are absolutely right. I just priced out the Ritz Carlton for our upcoming trip. Rooms start at $429---less than the Monoral or Epcot resorts for the same time period. The level of service at a deluxe Disney resort, while good, does not even approach the level of service at the Ritz. For example, I do not believe that Disney has cabana boys who will bring me drinks poolside. At least, not yet.

Brian, I have to agree with you fully on this one. There is nothing like the service at a Ritz Carlton. Have you been to the one in Dearborn?? It is actually the lowest priced rooms out of all the Ritz's in the world. With the service you would ecpect. A great weekend getaway if you want to be spoiled on club level.
For me, I saty off-site in a nice big pool home. I have two teenage boys and a 10 year old girl:
1. I will not stay in a small room with my two wonderful sons for 10 days
2. My daughter wouldn't want to either
3. I have a kitchen and a grill out on my lanai next to the pool
4. The magic on my vacation does not have to come from Disney
5. Disney accomodations are NOT 5 family member friendly--this means two adjoining rooms, where my 10 year old daughter has to stay with 19 and 16 year old young men.

It's a choice people....One choice is no better then the other. Sometimes I feel like I am ostrasized here for being an off-siter. It's not even always about the money, its what works best for each individual family. I am a stay at home Mom for 19 years. I have spent plenty of time with my kids. I don't need to stay in 300 square feet with them for 10 days. It's called a VACATION

 

[Brian Noble]

The only Ritz I've had the pleasure of staying at was in San Juan, PR. Fabulous time. I may have to look into the Dearborn location for a weekend getaway---our 10 year anniversary is this year, and my brother offered to watch the kids.

Edited to add: Wow! Club level room at the RC Dearborn for the weekend, $239/night! I'm all over that. Thanks for the tip!