Why I don't like free dining

[DebbieB]

Debbie....You are agreeing that it is a great deal while jco_direwolf is saying that it isn't. I am trying to understand his numbers, but it isn't working for me. I think my main hangup is that jco_direwolf's numbers assume (at least I think they do) that you are going every year for the length of your contract, thus validating spreading the cost over that time. But if you are coming from my standpoints - which is that most DVC people wouldn't go as often if they didn't own DVC - then the numbers don't work out that way. Right? Also, if that lump sum you paid up front was invested and not handed over to Disney, you'd be making money off of that sum each year. In your bank account it works for you, in Disney's it works for them.

This probably has the makings of the "Which is better, TIW or DDP?" debates that rage on here every so often. With that one, it is very very clear that the savings depend on the spending/eating habits of the individual person or family. In other words, there is no "right" answer. With the debate we are having here, there is no "right" answer, either. If someone believes that they are saving a boat load of money by buying into DVC, then I can see why they wouldn't expect additional perks. If someone - like me - believes that Disney is getting WAY more money from them due to their DVC purchase, I can see why they'd expect more perks. Considering I am going two times this upcoming year (spending 21 days total) and I would have spent at MOST 7 days if I didn't own DVC, then it is pretty clear to me that Disney is making out pretty well.

I agree there's no "right answer". The free dining can be a good deal if you want to go that way, staying in a regular room. But just because it's a good deal doesn't mean members should be "entitled" to free or reduced dining. You bought a long term contract for lodging when you bought DVC. I bought it because I wanted to stay in a 1 bedroom twice a year (11 nights total) and didn't want to fork out $400+ a night. I paid $14,750 for 250 points in 1999, I figured I got that back in 3 or 4 years not counting dues. So right now I can get 11 nights in a 1 bedroom or 20 nights in a studio for my annual dues of about $1,300. I think I am saving a "boatload of money". Sure DVC costs more now but my contract is only until 2042. I would love to get free or reduced dining. But I don't think I am "entitled" to anything beyond what I agreed to in the contract. I don't expect anything more. I don't think DVC/Disney is obligated to give me anything more. If anyone bought into DVC thinking they could get the best of both worlds (highly discounted lodging in the long term through DVC vs special offers by CRO), they made a mistake.

 

[jco_direwolf]

Like I said: People can make numbers do whatever they want.

I said that something cost a certain amount for 7 days and you twisted "7 days" to mean "6 nights" so you could "massage" the numbers to come out to be less than $48 per night. You call that "following the rules to the letter". Yeah, right .

7 Days means 7 Days, any place you book if you book 7 days you'll get something like...

Day 1 (Check-in) == Sunday --> Night 1 -->
Day 2 == Monday --> Night 2 -->
Day 3 == Tuesday --> Night 3 -->
Day 4 == Wednesday --> Night 4 -->
Day 5 == Thursday --> Night 5 -->
Day 6 == Friday --> Night 6 -->
Day 7 (Check-out) == Saturday

That is 7 DAYS just what you said. Why is that not 7 days?

Why can't you tell me what dates you booked? Because I can't get your price of $1416, I can get $1350 for 7 days/6 nights, or $1534 for 8 days/7 nights, at CBR for 3 adults, with free dining, single day park ticket. So I can't tell if you want 7 days or 8 days, this is why EVERY hotel I've ever dealt with talks about nights instead of days, or more simply Check-in and Check-out dates.

I did check-in on the 6 Sept, and out on the 12th or 13th (for 6 nights or 7 nights.)

JohnO

 

[CarolAnnC]

Just thought I'd mention this - did you know that an offer by the UK Walt Disney Travel Company offered Saratoga Springs and Old Key West for 42% OFF PLUS free dining for the whole of the summer season. An unbelievably good deal and really made me feel like our new DVC membership wasn't such a great catch after all.......

I do not know of this particular offer, since it appears that it is for U.K. residents? Is that correct? Are they pricing it in British Pounds? I would think that makes a difference right there...

We in the U.S. definitely cannot book the "whole summer season" with free dining; and I have not heard of any 42% off offer either. Here in the U.S. it is rack rate plus park ticket purchases required to obtain free dining, for a limited period of time in August/September.

 

[CarolAnnC]

I think there is a misconception that DVC should be providing the "best" or cheapest accommodation price; as well as providing the "best" perks or discounts around as well.

That has never been, nor will ever be the case. DVC is marketed as Deluxe or "Home Away from Home" resorts as timeshare ownership. Membership perks are sometimes offered, sometimes not, and never typically match up what CRO offers are out there either..

One can keep finding cheaper, all the way down International Drive and 192 or even pitch a tent out there.

As far as "free dining" well here is something to consider. Take the money you would have spent at home for groceries, buy groceries in FL, eat in your kitchen/villa and hence "free dining". I'd rather do that any day as opposed to free dining restaurant style while staying in a Port Orleans or Pop Century room....

 

[tubtruck]

I do not know of this particular offer, since it appears that it is for U.K. residents? Is that correct? Are they pricing it in British Pounds? I would think that makes a difference right there...

We in the U.S. definitely cannot book the "whole summer season" with free dining; and I have not heard of any 42% off offer either. Here in the U.S. it is rack rate plus park ticket purchases required to obtain free dining, for a limited period of time in August/September.

This is what I mentioned in my earlier post, I have actually rented my points out for SSR to an american family to take advantage of this deal, the cost when converted from pounds to dollars actually works out for the room at the cost of annual dues per point plus the cost of the dining plan for two people. They are in effect renting SSR out to us folks in the UK for the price of Disneys Dues on the points and the cost of the dining plan for two people. The cost of a 1 bedroom is only the cost more of what dues are on the exta 240 odd points or whatever it works out to be.

This deal is available again already for next year, as I said earlier I am pretty sure they are only offering it to UK residents so as not to upset too many people as there are a lot more US DVC owners than owners in the UK.

 

[tubtruck]

Prices today on Disney.co.uk for SSR :-

CHECK IN 2nd AUGUST 2009 - CHECK OUT 16th AUGUST 2009

STUDIO - FREE DINING PLAN

1,274.00 British pounds sterling = 2,006.62 US dollars

Exchange rate: 1.575051


1 BEDROOM - FREE DINING PLAN

1,722.00 British pounds sterling = 2,712.24 US dollars

Exchange rate: 1.575051

ALL GUESTS MUST BUY A HOPPER TICKET

14 DAY UK HOPPER TICKET COST 219.00 British pounds sterling = 344.94 US dollars
INCLUDES:-
14 days of unlimited admission to all Theme Parks with the freedom to visit more than one Park or attraction on the same day:

• Magic Kingdom Park
• Epcot
• Disney's Hollywood Studios
• Disney's Animal Kingdom Theme Park
• Disney's Blizzard Beach Water Park
• Disney's Typhoon Lagoon Water Park
• Disney's Oak Trail Golf Course
• Disney's Wide World of Sports Complex
• DisneyQuest Indoor Interactive Theme Park

Plus use of the Walt Disney World transportation system - monorails, water launches, and motor coaches.

 

[wulfekamp]

The UK offers make sence. I was told that out of country guests is were Disney took a hit last year. People from this country are going to WDW people from europe are down. I had a great time with some DVC members from the UK last year at AKL. A really fun group.

 

[CarolAnnC]

I guess I don't see why referencing my post that moderates do not go for $150 a night, with this U.K. offer is relevant. Unless you are U.K. travelers, of course...not applicable to us Chicagoans, lol.

We have U.K. friends there that are traveling this summer to WDW and staying at POR for a fabulous price. But, we here in the U.S. cannot take advantage of those U.K. specific deals, anyway.

I am happy if someone finds such a good bargain, and travels on it to WDW. It certainly does not take away from my own happiness and satisfaction with my DVC. I prefer to see the glass as being half full, not half empty.

And if anyone feels differently, well that's why there is a resale market out there. Anyone is able to sell their DVC and take advantage of moderates and "free dining" if and when it occurs again..

 

[bfosbenner]

RUTGERS1

I feel similar to you. As I am not as concerned each time about being in a Deluxe resort. I shop for deals and had recieved some before buying DVC.
In reality, my dues are equal to what I would spend with specials. I have VERO and since I live at the shore I don't plan on going there any time soon. Go figure...
Dont get me wrong. We love the DVC resorts and some of the perks but those who can be happy with a moderate could do better without DVC.
We have cruised a few times and using points to cruise would be tough knowing how much that would cost using a comparison of $10 a point.
Just my 2 cents...

 

[wulfekamp]

I think DVC is a great deal. Right now there are some really great deals out there because of the economy. I also think people join DVC for differn't reasons. Some to save money some would be members at any cost. Its a way of life. You will never see me doing the math. I could care less at what it cost. To me the time my family spends at Disney is priceless. It is the only time we are truly together all year. We might be home but not together. Is DVC perfect no. Like I have said before Some people don't get it. I'm not sure if Disney its self gets it. Its like when they say welcome home. I really like that. Some could care less. Last year At AKL they didn't say it and I was Disapointed. I'm just one of those people. Am I wrong no I'm just diffent. I like perks you might not. Are you wrong NO just differnt from me. I'm not going to get my calculator out and try and prove you wrong. Why because your NOT wrong Just differnt from me.

 

[rutgers1]

We have friends who go to Disney during peak seasons (school breaks) and stay in deluxe resorts. Over the past five years, they literally eclipsed the annual buy-in price of buying into DVC. If they didn't, they are probably very close. For that family, buying into DVC is an absolute no brainer, and they get totally bummed when I explain the math to them. But, then again, they are quick to point out that their youngest child is still very young but that they might not be as interested in going 5 years from now. Those points bring up to thoughts for me that relate to earlier posts:

1) The "math" works a lot better if you are a family that normally stays in the deluxe hotels. If you drop hundreds a night on the Contemporary every year, go ahead and buy DVC immediately.
2) While I think that there are a LOT of people here who still travel to Disney annually without kids, I think a LOT of people buy into DVC when their children are small. I bought last year when my kids were 8 and 6, and while I definitely foresee annual trips in the immediate future, I think there might be a time period when they are a bit older where they will not want to do it anymore. Of course, I wasn't thinking about that when I purchased.

 

[Chuck S]

We have friends who go to Disney during peak seasons (school breaks) and stay in deluxe resorts. Over the past five years, they literally eclipsed the annual buy-in price of buying into DVC. If they didn't, they are probably very close. For that family, buying into DVC is an absolute no brainer, and they get totally bummed when I explain the math to them. But, then again, they are quick to point out that their youngest child is still very young but that they might not be as interested in going 5 years from now. Those points bring up to thoughts for me that relate to earlier posts:

1) The "math" works a lot better if you are a family that normally stays in the deluxe hotels. If you drop hundreds a night on the Contemporary every year, go ahead and buy DVC immediately.
2) While I think that there are a LOT of people here who still travel to Disney annually without kids, I think a LOT of people buy into DVC when their children are small. I bought last year when my kids were 8 and 6, and while I definitely foresee annual trips in the immediate future, I think there might be a time period when they are a bit older where they will not want to do it anymore. Of course, I wasn't thinking about that when I purchased.

Yes, but in 10 or 15 years when your kids are no longer small, you can sell your DVC and recoup some of the initial investment, while the 2042 resorts, if not extended will surely lose resale value, there will still be some amount you can recoup. AKV and BLT should continue to increase in resale value for a few years, if the buy in price through DVC continues to increase. SSR is the odd bird as far as resale value, since it does have an extended contract to 2054, it should, logically, be selling resale at a considerably higher price than OKW 2042 contracts. OKW will also be the oddity, with the 2057 extended contracts.

I agree with the pont that DVC probably isn't of too much value for those that normally happily stay in a value resort, a moderate resort family is workable for DVC, but will take longer to realize the savings over those that normally stay deluxe.

 

[Tara]

We have friends who go to Disney during peak seasons (school breaks) and stay in deluxe resorts. Over the past five years, they literally eclipsed the annual buy-in price of buying into DVC. If they didn't, they are probably very close. For that family, buying into DVC is an absolute no brainer, and they get totally bummed when I explain the math to them. But, then again, they are quick to point out that their youngest child is still very young but that they might not be as interested in going 5 years from now. Those points bring up to thoughts for me that relate to earlier posts:

1) The "math" works a lot better if you are a family that normally stays in the deluxe hotels. If you drop hundreds a night on the Contemporary every year, go ahead and buy DVC immediately.
2) While I think that there are a LOT of people here who still travel to Disney annually without kids, I think a LOT of people buy into DVC when their children are small. I bought last year when my kids were 8 and 6, and while I definitely foresee annual trips in the immediate future, I think there might be a time period when they are a bit older where they will not want to do it anymore. Of course, I wasn't thinking about that when I purchased.

I agree - AND there are a lot of people with families who buy in because they want to travel to Disney often (annually, bi-annually) and DVC gives them a chance to stay in larger, deluxe-type accommodations they'd never be able to afford year in and year out.

This is mostly what influenced our decision to buy. We always stayed in deluxe resorts as a family. (Except that 1 time we stayed at ASMusic - never again!). I'd stayed at ASMovies before we had a child (big trip with my husband's family) and at DxL and CSR in the past, too. I've stayed in every deluxe except Poly, CR and AKL. So I have lots of perspective on hotels and I definitely know what I like and don't like.

So it is deluxe resorts for us...but the only time I've ever paid rack rate was when free dining was offered - when I added up what we'd likely spend in food without free dining, it worked out that rack rate + free dining was about the same as the AAA discount I could also get on the room + paying for food. (this was at GF) All my other stays have been pretty well discounted - usually 40% off AP rates, but sometimes more like 25%. I stayed at YC/BC/BWI for $169/nt a bunch of times! But that was always a lot of work, I'd have to watch for deals to be announced and be ready to jump on them, and didn't allow us to have as much choice in when we traveled - and there was no guarantee good rates would be available. DVC removes the worry of when discounts will be available, lets me choose when I want to travel, and gives me a lot more bang for my buck in terms of accommodation IMO.

 

[wulfekamp]

I love reading the posts. We started in values when we first started and thought it was great UNTIL we tried a moderate. We did that for a while UNTIL we tried Wilderness lodge. From there it was DVC at BCV in a studio thought it can't get any better until we tried a 1 BR. This year we are in a 2 BR for the first time. I'm afraid very afraid. Were going to need more points if this trend continues. I couldn't stay in a value again no way. I have tasted the good stuff you can't make me go back. I need my DVC. I just had a great idea. They should convert the castle into DVC. If your going to dream dream big.

 

[anna08]

. If your going to dream dream big.

Walt would probably agree!!

 

[tubtruck]

To be honest I am still very pleased with my DVC purchase. Even though I am staying on cash this year and renting my points out due to the really good value offer they have on SSR, the rate of return on the rental after dues payment this year outstripped the rate of return I could have got in any UK bank account due to the present low interest rates.

(incidentally in the UK they are actually asking for considerably more money for the mods with the basic dining plan than for SSR with the standard free plan, further confirming my theory that they use the UK market to sell off disneys points holding and try to hide this fact from US owners.)