Why I don't like free dining

[robinb]

Yes, an SSR studio offers a bit more than a POR room. However, when you consider that I dropped thousands of dollars up front and pay monthly fees that exceed the price of paying rack rate for a POR room during this time period, it doesn't seem like such a great thing.

You would have really been honked off two years ago when people were being called in advance of their stay in Value Resorts and moved to OKW and SSR during free dining. Or with me ... last year I was "walked" from POR during free dining to SSR and when I refused a studio (I *really* wanted to stay at POR!) they offered my a 1 BR which I accepted.

I happen to love Free Dining and I look at it as a way to stretch my DVC points. I usually do 5-7 days ot free dining and 5-7 days of DVC during my August stays.

 

[tubtruck]

I see their are quite different views on this. I live in the UK and own at SSR resort, We always travel at the end July or in August to WDW this is because my DW is a school teacher and the UK summer school holidays are different times to the US ones. They run from around the last week in July and end at the start of september, about six weeks in total.
Disney are obviously using a great deal of their DVC allocation at both OKW and SSR to target the UK market. I feel this may intentionally be to keep the value of DVC up in the obvious main market which is the USA. In october last year I booked two weeks at SSR with free dining plan there was also a massive discount off the UK rack room price of about 43%.
At the time I did a few calculations and the price pretty much worked out for a studio at the annual dues cost plus the cost of the dining plan as the total. The only other thing expected was that you had to buy a 14 day hopper pass, these are only available in the UK and compared to the 10 day USA tickets tend to be pretty favourable in price anyway.
My suspicions were initially aroused by just how little more it would cost me to actually book a 1 bedroom rather than a studio, and yes you have guessed it, it cost me approximatley the grand total of the extra points multiplied by what the dues on the extra points would cost, i.e Disney are making nothing on the room or placing no value on it other than covering their dues cost and selling extra park tickets.
I rented my own points out to cover the majority of the cost.
The offer is already available again for 2010 on the disney.co.uk website,
I hope this doesnt upset too many people, I for one will not be staying again at SSR or OKW with my own points at this time of year when non owners from the UK can in effect stay at the same resort as I own at for the same price as what I have to pay if I want to stay i.e the cost of my dues and dining plan and ticket but without having to have had to initially stump up a five figure sum to enjoy this.

 

[robinb]

I and others have pointed out about $150/night is correct. Before you buy the required 1 day passes, and add in taxes. Some have argued, and I've not been in that group, that POR and SSR or BLT or any DVC are two different rates. In fact my argument has been EVEN with the difference the DVC owner is spending about $100 per night less.

People can make numbers do whatever they want.

IMO, if you are going to get the DDP anyway, free dining makes more sense.

Here's our family scenario:
* 3 Adults
* CBR Standard View
* 1 Day 1 Park Pass
* Free regular dining

Total cost according to Disney:
$1416.57
($839.79) - Cost of DDP which we would get anyway
($240) - Cost of park passes @ $80 each that we would upgrade to a 10 day hopper or AP

$336.78 -- Cost of the room for 7 days

Can you stay at a DVC resort for only $48 per day for a week? Even if you just count maintenance fees?

 

[wulfekamp]

Were having fun now.

 

[DebbieB]

People can make numbers do whatever they want.

IMO, if you are going to get the DDP anyway, free dining makes more sense.

Here's our family scenario:
* 3 Adults
* CBR Standard View
* 1 Day 1 Park Pass
* Free regular dining

Total cost according to Disney:
$1416.57
($839.79) - Cost of DDP which we would get anyway
($240) - Cost of park passes @ $80 each that we would upgrade to a 10 day hopper or AP

$336.78 -- Cost of the room for 7 days

Can you stay at a DVC resort for only $48 per day for a week? Even if you just count maintenance fees?

Absolutely, free dining is a great deal, especially for value or moderate resorts. There's nothing stopping DVC members from taking advantage of this offer through CRO. It's purpose is to fill unsold CRO rooms and for Disney to make money from these rooms rather than leaving them empty. Does DVC/Disney care if you book this offer rather than a points stay? No, they would rather you do it because they don't lose money if a points room stays empty.

 

[Chuck S]

People can make numbers do whatever they want.

IMO, if you are going to get the DDP anyway, free dining makes more sense.

Here's our family scenario:
* 3 Adults
* CBR Standard View
* 1 Day 1 Park Pass
* Free regular dining

Total cost according to Disney:
$1416.57
($839.79) - Cost of DDP which we would get anyway
($240) - Cost of park passes @ $80 each that we would upgrade to a 10 day hopper or AP

$336.78 -- Cost of the room for 7 days

Can you stay at a DVC resort for only $48 per day for a week? Even if you just count maintenance fees?

According to the Disney website, CBR has two double beds, as opposed to DVC that has a minimum of 1 queen and a double sleeper. Not exactly equal.

If you are happy in that room set up for a several days stay there is no reason not to do it as opposed to DVC. But I still don't consider it a comparable accommodation. A good buy, certainly. But equal accommodation to DVC? No.

 

[robinb]

According to the Disney website, CBR has two double beds, as opposed to DVC that has a minimum of 1 queen and a double sleeper. Not exactly equal.

I never said it was equal to DVC. I said it was a good deal.

I personally prefer a non-OKW DVC studio to the deluxe resorts I have stayed at. I like the sleeper couch A LOT because it gives the illusion of more room and I like the kitchenette. But, for $48 per night I would save my points to stay longer or stay in a 1BR on our next trip.

 

[dvcdisney]

When we got the AP discount I was thrilled, way more than we had before (10% off length of stay). I'm grateful for that, it was a "bonus". I'm not going to whine that we deserve more than we signed for.

I was also thrilled with AP discount. We decided to get the AP because of that. I do think it's a bonus.

So, in that case, it's not too far fetch for the OP to request or suggest a discount for DDP. I think the OP was just quite frustrated with the way ADRs are being handled during the Free Dining period. For a short instance, I too wondered why I had to fight for ADRs and I wasn't getting a deal. Now, it only took be a second to realize that I would rather stay with my DVC resort than to pay rack rate for any other resort. But it does get you thinking. And I can imagine that if someone was on the fence about DVC, it may sway them towards not purchasing or even to sell.

And, I wanted to point out that I did not purchase into the membership for any perks. They are nice extras but I never really thought that I would use many of them. We purchased because this is how our family wants to vacation. Perks have always been extra.

But the more usable perks I see, the more I feel better about the membership and the more I may continue to add on. I know many are not like myself. But I will be loyal to the company that treats me well. Like I said, a mere perk of 180 days for ADRs for us, would cost DVC minimal (if any at all) and I would very much appreciate it. It gives me the feeling that they do want to keep my business. JMO.

 

[rutgers1]

Debbie....You are agreeing that it is a great deal while jco_direwolf is saying that it isn't. I am trying to understand his numbers, but it isn't working for me. I think my main hangup is that jco_direwolf's numbers assume (at least I think they do) that you are going every year for the length of your contract, thus validating spreading the cost over that time. But if you are coming from my standpoints - which is that most DVC people wouldn't go as often if they didn't own DVC - then the numbers don't work out that way. Right? Also, if that lump sum you paid up front was invested and not handed over to Disney, you'd be making money off of that sum each year. In your bank account it works for you, in Disney's it works for them.

This probably has the makings of the "Which is better, TIW or DDP?" debates that rage on here every so often. With that one, it is very very clear that the savings depend on the spending/eating habits of the individual person or family. In other words, there is no "right" answer. With the debate we are having here, there is no "right" answer, either. If someone believes that they are saving a boat load of money by buying into DVC, then I can see why they wouldn't expect additional perks. If someone - like me - believes that Disney is getting WAY more money from them due to their DVC purchase, I can see why they'd expect more perks. Considering I am going two times this upcoming year (spending 21 days total) and I would have spent at MOST 7 days if I didn't own DVC, then it is pretty clear to me that Disney is making out pretty well.

 

[jco_direwolf]

People can make numbers do whatever they want.

...

Can you stay at a DVC resort for only $48 per day for a week? Even if you just count maintenance fees?

First off rooms are booked per night. 7-days is really 6-nights. So it's $56/night. You didn't give me booking days... So I'm going with check-in Sept 6; check-out Sept 12 (6 night/7 days.)

Second, With just MF of what ~$4 or DAKV (which is $4.86 this year)

DAKV Value Studio Sept 6 to 12, 8*5 + 16 = 56, 56*4.86/6 = $45.36/night.

Yep I sure can.... Check-mate

johno

 

[robinb]

First off rooms are booked per night. 7-days is really 6-nights. So it's $56/night. You didn't give me booking days... So I'm going with check-in Sept 6; check-out Sept 12 (6 night/7 days.)

Second, With just MF of what ~$4 or DAKV (which is $4.86 this year)

DAKV Value Studio Sept 6 to 12, 8*5 + 16 = 56, 56*4.86/6 = $45.36/night.

Yep I sure can.... Check-mate

johno

Only if you cheat by leaving out a day ... especially a SATURDAY . I quoted a whole week, johno.

72 x $4.87 = 350.64
$350.64/7 = $50.09

Nice try .

 

[jco_direwolf]

Debbie....You are agreeing that it is a great deal while jco_direwolf is saying that it isn't. I am trying to understand his numbers, but it isn't working for me. I think my main hangup is that jco_direwolf's numbers assume (at least I think they do) that you are going every year for the length of your contract, thus validating spreading the cost over that time. But if you are coming from my standpoints - which is that most DVC people wouldn't go as often if they didn't own DVC - then the numbers don't work out that way. Right? Also, if that lump sum you paid up front was invested and not handed over to Disney, you'd be making money off of that sum each year. In your bank account it works for you, in Disney's it works for them.

Okay you are now asking for more math. What you are asking for is a more detail analysis of the costs. I believe it's referred to as the future value of money. But you are correct, the simple 1/50 the contract is not the BEST estimation, however, it's a simple one that gets us close.

To do the more complex/complete requires more data, like when the contract starts, the return you get (T-bills gets you different rate than investing in google, but there is risk factor associated with it.) and the increase per year in (which I believe is like 12%) of the Disney Hotel Rate. In general your argument has been around this years rates. So I feel using $100/pt and $4/pt MF is a good estimation. If you like other numbers, give me your justification for them.

Now then for the argument well DVC member visit more to use there points. That is a non-starter, since you can buy just what ever you feel matches you stay profile. If you only want to come for a week every other year, then you buy 1/2 the yearly points and bank/borrow. Yes if you buy from Disney you are forced to buy 160pts, but if that is too many for you there is always resale.

johno

 

[jco_direwolf]

Only if you cheat by leaving out a day ... especially a SATURDAY . I quoted a whole week, johno.

72 x $4.87 = 350.64
$350.64/7 = $50.09

Nice try .

I didn't cheat. I told you just what I was doing. You said 7 DAYS! I got 7 DAYS! A whole week. And yes I picked my week so I only need one Fri/Sat stay. But where did you say I couldn't do that?

I followed your rules to the letter. And the problem is totally ARTIFICIAL anyway because you can't book room only at CBR for $48/night.

You're just upset because I played your game and beat you. What days did you book in your CBR?

johno

 

[robinb]

Like I said: People can make numbers do whatever they want.

I said that something cost a certain amount for 7 days and you twisted "7 days" to mean "6 nights" so you could "massage" the numbers to come out to be less than $48 per night. You call that "following the rules to the letter". Yeah, right .

 

[Tink-n-Belle]

In 2002 I stayed at the Contemporary for $179 per night. Loved the location to MK. When I went to book it again it was $450 a night4 years later.

Point being, yes there are deals, but in 10 years, who is going to be getting the better deal?

Another example. In 1994 my father was a florida resident getting 3 bedroom villa (where SSR is now) for $150 a night. The retail was $300 a night. Now how much would a 3 bedroom be? $800- $1000. How many points does it cost now for a 3 bedroom at SSR -- how many points in 10 years? Yes, I realize MF will have risen alot in 10 years, but there will be a time when DVC is going to look really inexpensive. Just look at the original owners at OKW- They even got free park passes till 2000. Think of what they paid and what they saved on park tickets alone.

You could always bank your points and take 2 trips next year and take advantage of the free dining this year.

 

[Sandisw]

Debbie....You are agreeing that it is a great deal while jco_direwolf is saying that it isn't. I am trying to understand his numbers, but it isn't working for me. I think my main hangup is that jco_direwolf's numbers assume (at least I think they do) that you are going every year for the length of your contract, thus validating spreading the cost over that time. But if you are coming from my standpoints - which is that most DVC people wouldn't go as often if they didn't own DVC - then the numbers don't work out that way. Right? Also, if that lump sum you paid up front was invested and not handed over to Disney, you'd be making money off of that sum each year. In your bank account it works for you, in Disney's it works for them.

This probably has the makings of the "Which is better, TIW or DDP?" debates that rage on here every so often. With that one, it is very very clear that the savings depend on the spending/eating habits of the individual person or family. In other words, there is no "right" answer. With the debate we are having here, there is no "right" answer, either. If someone believes that they are saving a boat load of money by buying into DVC, then I can see why they wouldn't expect additional perks. If someone - like me - believes that Disney is getting WAY more money from them due to their DVC purchase, I can see why they'd expect more perks. Considering I am going two times this upcoming year (spending 21 days total) and I would have spent at MOST 7 days if I didn't own DVC, then it is pretty clear to me that Disney is making out pretty well.

I am not sure that I agree with you that DVC members only go to WDW because they bought DVC. I believe that many of us bought DVC because we were already going every year and it didn't make sense to continue to just pay for the WDW hotels.

Now, I will admit that some who bought DVC probably go more than they used to, but anyone purchasing in to DVC did so because they wanted to travel to WDW.

I believe that using the length of the contract is a fair way to look at it. But I have done the comparison between BLT stays (1 bedroom) for cash with free dining and BLT through points, over a 10 year period.

Even if my BLT contract was worth very little in 10 years, my out of pocket costs for room and food using my DVC, would still be less than if I paid cash all those years for that same room with free dining. While the savings is not a lot, it is there.

Of course, I would never be happy staying at a moderate and if you compare that or values to DVC, then you are right, being a DVC member makes no sense.

 

[binkytell]

having just booked for 2010, i can really understand the OP's frustration
about the free dining plan.

i have just booked a 2 bedroom villa at saratoga springs, 15 nights with
free dining for august 2010 for eight people = £2600 ($4000) on uk disney site,if ya break that down
thats around £170($269) a night but then food for eight people a day eating in disney would be well over that (sorry but its late and im too tired to convert to dollars)

so really disney is paying for me and 7 family to stay with them

we do have to buy 14 day ultimate ticket but we would get that anyway.

hope this helps with your argument OP and im sorry but i cant not take up this offer but i do feel for you

 

[Frances999]

Free Dining is offered on packages that are sold at rack rate with park tickets purchased as well. I don't think $150 is rack rate for a moderate...

Just thought I'd mention this - did you know that an offer by the UK Walt Disney Travel Company offered Saratoga Springs and Old Key West for 42% OFF PLUS free dining for the whole of the summer season. An unbelievably good deal and really made me feel like our new DVC membership wasn't such a great catch after all.......

 

[Frances999]

having just booked to 2010, i can really understand the OP's frustration
about the free dining plan.

i have just booked a 2 bedroom villa at saratoga springs, 15 nights with
free dining for august 2010 for eight people = £2600 ($4000) on uk disney site,if ya break that down
thats around £170($269) a night but then food for eight people a day eating in disney would be well over that (sorry but its late and im too tired to convert to dollars)

so really disney is paying for me and 7 family to stay with them

we do have to buy 14 day ultimate ticket but we would get that anyway.

hope this helps with your argument OP and im sorry but i cant not take up this offer but i do feel for you

Yes, the UK deals are absolutely incredible value-for-money. It's crazy! DVC membership is no way worth it when you can get theme park admission, dining AND a 2 bed villa for less than $270/night for EIGHT peope....crazy....

 

[binkytell]

sorry thats not including the park ticket but i still feel its a bargain.

just priced up same dates with 2 rooms at all stars and paying for
2 rooms with dining plan and it comes to £5000

i cant see the logic