Why have you NOT bought DVC?

[dvczerfs]

hay!! you stole my prepay gas "line" from me!! post #162!! do you know a good attorney i can use! so i guess me, the un edumacted person used the correct parr. for paying ahead. thanks quiksilvr, next time im in dc you can but me a drink!!

wow, that didnt sound good. i mean buy me a drink! who puts a y and a t so close together!:

 

[Ka-chow!]

And for those who were wondering about the maintenance fees I believe they're capped at 15% increases per year but they've never come close to that level of increase.

A possible 15% a year? Thanks for the number.

I will stand by the numbers. Stocks have averaged 10.3% a year since 1926. The financial comparisons show DVC is probably a wash, at best for the consumer. However, the memberships seem to provide a great risk hedge for Disney if/when tourism sours.

So if the financial incentives can't be demonstrated and I would take on risks by joining, then there is an emotional value coming into play. I can appreciate the emotional attachment to joining, but I just haven't heard the financial reward argument hold up yet, and few DVC pundits report the risks involved.

 

[ChickieToo]

wow, that didnt sound good. i mean buy me a drink! who puts a y and a t so close together!:

Well, technically, you both stole it from me in post #65! I even threw in something about locking in my oil price for good measure.

Great minds think alike.

What I don't get is I don't care one bit if anyone joins DVC or not, but non-members are going out of their way to disparage owners--with very weak arguments, by the way. Why?

 

[jodifla]

A possible 15% a year? Thanks for the number.

I will stand by the numbers. Stocks have averaged 10.3% a year since 1926. The financial comparisons show DVC is probably a wash, at best for the consumer. However, the memberships seem to provide a great risk hedge for Disney if/when tourism sours.

So if the financial incentives can't be demonstrated and I would take on risks by joining, then there is an emotional value coming into play. I can appreciate the emotional attachment to joining, but I just haven't heard the financial reward argument hold up yet, and few DVC pundits report the risks involved.

Actually, the stock market has been pretty lousy the last 10 years.

You keep trying to look at it as an investment.

Those of us who LOVE DVC love the fact that we pay a fraction of what an actual room costs.

There are risks to EVERY purchase. Your car could have major repairs, the housing market could tank leaving you upside down in a purchase, etc. etc.

You are seriously blowing the risks completely out of proportion. You don't like your DVC after purchasing? BIG DEAL! Sell it. There's a list of people waiting to buy at many resorts.''

 

[jodifla]

A possible 15% a year? Thanks for the number.

I will stand by the numbers. Stocks have averaged 10.3% a year since 1926. The financial comparisons show DVC is probably a wash, at best for the consumer. However, the memberships seem to provide a great risk hedge for Disney if/when tourism sours.

So if the financial incentives can't be demonstrated and I would take on risks by joining, then there is an emotional value coming into play. I can appreciate the emotional attachment to joining, but I just haven't heard the financial reward argument hold up yet, and few DVC pundits report the risks involved.

One more thing wrong with your Doomsday scenario.

DVC members can vote DVC out, and ask for another company to come in and run the timeshare.

 

[spiceycat]

DVC can't do that - even if they don't have to tell members - Florida has rules what can be passed to the owners (members) and what can't.

if the park earning go down - they can't raise the dues to help make up for that.

they do get audited.

so they can't pass expensives to us unless the DVC resort in question, has those expensives.

I brought in 1993 - got my money out long, long ago. We got free tickets until 12/31/1999,which more than paid for the maintence fees - if you went often enough.

for years it was 5% then 3%, now lately it has been 8% - but to me that is just confused management....OKW use to work on a shoe string budget - now the newest management is acting like they have money to spend.... which makes me mad. If I am paying close to what BWV, VWL, BCV, VWL and now AKV pays - then fine give me room service. they have it. OKW has NEVER had it.'

other than that no complaints. Now some years the service was less than great - but every company has problems. Like right now, don't know what WDW is doing - but saw only a couple of happy CM this week. The others would hardily smile.

there were some pass members who went overboard - only stayed in budget (even offsite rooms) - then brought DVC and immediately start staying in a 2-bedroom. If you are on a budget - stay on that budget. They would have been fined if they went with a studio and rented the rest. Instead they blame DVC.

just because you can stay in a 2-bedroom - doesn't mean that it is right for you and your family.

many of us stay in studios and love 'em! There is nothing wrong with a DVC studio - until you can afford the 2-bedroom - don't do it. (okay exceptions might be a family gathering - but that shouldn't happen every year - until you can afford it)

for 2 studios - you can get a 1-bedroom.... so leave that out too.

a WDW resort room is basically like a DVC studio (the studio is generally nicer).

so compare resort rooms to studios - not 2-bedrooms. (unless your family has to have a 2-bedroom)

 

[Ka-chow!]

First you said

As I said, I've paid about $9 grand for $30 to $40 grand worth of visits in the last 12 years. AND I can sell my DVC today for more than I paid for it.

Now you've said:

I bought 12 years ago. Nine grand WAS my initial investment.

But really, DVC is not even an investment. It's a prepaid vacation plan. That's what most of us use it for. The fact that I could sell it for more than I bought it for 12 years ago is just gravy.

Your arguments are among the most strange I've ever seen. There would really need to be worldwide calamity for what you describe to happen. And in that case, DVC is the least of my concerns. I've already gotten my money's worth out of it.

Thanks for conceding that your $9k figure was just your purchase price. I know you were trying to support your argument that is is a vlaue by not including your yearly maintenance fees/taxes, but since we all are trying to get to the truth as best we can, can we gave an accurate number?

 

[dvczerfs]

Well, technically, you both stole it from me in post #65! I even threw in something about locking in my oil price for good measure.

Great minds think alike.

What I don't get is I don't care one bit if anyone joins DVC or not, but non-members are going out of their way to disparage owners--with very weak arguments, by the way. Why?

no i said gas, not oil. you said electric and oil. you dvc members think your all that! home heating oils over 3.87 per gal on the merk. i hope next winters a warm one!!!

 

[Quiksilvr]

hay!! you stole my prepay gas "line" from me!! post #162!! do you know a good attorney i can use! so i guess me, the un edumacted person used the correct parr. for paying ahead. thanks quiksilvr, next time im in dc you can but me a drink!!

Well, technically, you both stole it from me in post #65! I even threw in something about locking in my oil price for good measure.

My apologies for my unwitting borrowing of your comments I read through the first five pages or so and then skipped to the end to see whether the thread was still on topic...so I missed a bunch of posts!

dvczerfs: the only thing we have more of in DC than politicians are lawyers... I should know, I am one!

Ka-Chow: I think that you're definitely right to acknowledge the emotional quotient involved in these decisions. I did not buy in thinking I was going to make money. Honestly, I don't see how someone could purchase a timeshare or other vacation product thinking that they would use it to generate investment returns. That said, it's not that you can't generate some sort of cash flow from DVC (i.e. members who rent their points out to cover dues) and I know that a number of older DVC members have realized an appreciation in the value of their contracts over time. I think people just need to be smart enough to realize that those are not reasons to buy in to the system. I doubt that the people who bought OKW in 1993 really believed that their points would eventually appreciate the way they have.

Still, I have decided to believe that I will save some money (ignoring opportunity costs of course) on accomodations over the next fifty years after factoring inflation and other cost increases to hotel accomodations that won't affect me because of my ownership. Does that mean Disney couldn't decide to destroy me with maintenance fees in the future? No. Of course they could do that if they wanted to, but I don't think they have an incentive to do that. If maintenance fees have scared off as many people from buying as this thread would lead me to believe; a drastic increase in those fees would only scare off exponentially more potential owners.

 

[jodifla]

First you said



Now you've said:



Thanks for conceding that your $9k figure was just your purchase price. I know you were trying to support your argument that is is a vlaue by not including your yearly maintenance fees/taxes, but since we all are trying to get to the truth as best we can, can we gave an accurate number?

Frankly, I haven't even looked in a while, and it was more math then I felt like doing. My DH just told me they are about $70 a month these days. This is for 206 points.

For us, a lot of the value has been cash flow. We paid off our DVC 8 years ago, before we had kids, while we both had jobs. We are now down to 1 FT job, 1PT job, and a DS.

So now, just for our dues, we can stay at in 2-bedroom accommodations. DS has a room, we have a room. (To us, THAT's a real vacation.) And we're not paying $600 bucks a night for the room. There's no way we'd have that kind of vacation outlay with just one of us working full time.

THAT'S why it has worked for us. And no amount of your (mostly incorrect) commenta) is going to change that.

 

[Ratpack]

I can appreciate the emotional attachment to joining, but I just haven't heard the financial reward argument hold up yet, and few DVC pundits report the risks involved.

The financial rewards for us will be visible when we go a few more years. We are a family of 5 so our accomidations have to be the deluxe rooms or two rooms at mod or value. It will take us about 8 years to break even on the cost of DVC and that comes with including the annual fees. So after that point, we will be staying in a 2 BR villa with W/D, full kitchen & jacuzzi for about $800 a year and since we do a trip every year and two trips every other year, we get three trips for less than $1600 or about $533 per trip. A single room at value for a week would cost more than that. Then couple all this with the AP price discount of $100 each and other discounts, and it really saves you money. BUT only if you plan to do Disney in the future.

I am not nor will not try to convince anyone DVC is for them. It is a personal decision that everyone has to make on their own. But for some there are financial benefits to owning DVC, you just have to know your travel habits and what you think you will do in the future.

Oh and howdy neighbor!!

 

[Ka-chow!]

Those of us who LOVE DVC love the fact that we pay a fraction of what an actual room costs.

There are risks to EVERY purchase. Your car could have major repairs, the housing market could tank leaving you upside down in a purchase, etc. etc.

You are seriously blowing the risks completely out of proportion. You don't like your DVC after purchasing? BIG DEAL! Sell it. There's a list of people waiting to buy at many resorts.''

I have come to discover that there is alot of emotion involved. Questioning DVC'ers' purchase is almost questioning how they raise their children.

I don't find your argument that the repair a home/car is equivalent to the risks of a vacation membership to be a good one.

It seems like you are saying that since there are risks in everything, we can ignore all risks.

And it appears you are claiming to have a good understanding that people's behavior will continue to be the same in a future where oil will be much, much higher.

I'll just have to take your word for it.

 

[dvczerfs]

My apologies for my unwitting borrowing of your comments I read through the first five pages or so and then skipped to the end to see whether the thread was still on topic...so I missed a bunch of posts!

dvczerfs: the only thing we have more of in DC than politicians are lawyers... I should know, I am one!

Ka-Chow: I think that you're definitely right to acknowledge the emotional quotient involved in these decisions. I did not buy in thinking I was going to make money. Honestly, I don't see how someone could purchase a timeshare or other vacation product thinking that they would use it to generate investment returns. That said, it's not that you can't generate some sort of cash flow from DVC (i.e. members who rent their points out to cover dues) and I know that a number of older DVC members have realized an appreciation in the value of their contracts over time. I think people just need to be smart enough to realize that those are not reasons to buy in to the system. I doubt that the people who bought OKW in 1993 really believed that their points would eventually appreciate the way they have.

Still, I have decided to believe that I will save some money (ignoring opportunity costs of course) on accomodations over the next fifty years after factoring inflation and other cost increases to hotel accomodations that won't affect me because of my ownership. Does that mean Disney couldn't decide to destroy me with maintenance fees in the future? No. Of course they could do that if they wanted to, but I don't think they have an incentive to do that. If maintenance fees have scared off as many people from buying as this thread would lead me to believe; a drastic increase in those fees would only scare off exponentially more potential owners.

ok, how much an hour, myself and chick need one!! (do we have case?)

 

[Ka-chow!]

Oh and howdy neighbor!!

Good points Rat.

Hey, I'm from Lexington too!!!

 

[jodifla]

I have come to discover that there is alot of emotion involved. Questioning DVC'ers' purchase is almost questioning how they raise their children.

I don't find your argument that the repair a home/car is equivalent to the risks of a vacation membership to be a good one.

It seems like you are saying that since there are risks in everything, we can ignore all risks.

And it appears you are claiming to have a good understanding that people's behavior will continue to be the same in a future where oil will be much, much higher.

I'll just have to take your word for it.

But your arguments are purely speculative "what ifs". I've had the membership 12 years, and see clearly how well it works for our family. It would likely work similarly well for a family that likes to spend a lot of time for Disney. Your stock market arguments are completely off base...this is money alloted for vacation taking, not investments.

Europe has had skyhigh gas prices for decades. Everybody there still travels all over Europe.

The same will happen here. People, technologly and infrastructure will adjust. WDW and other amusement parks will go on. Families will travel, just like they did when they had to climb in a covered wagon to do so.

 

[Quiksilvr]

ok, how much an hour, myself and chick need one!! (do we have case?)

That's funny. I actually don't even know what my billing rate is. I work for a big law firm (500+ lawyers) and I'm a junior associate so I basically get billed out at whatever the partners I work for decide I'm worth. From what I understand I know it's more than $100 but less than $300. I think it depends on the client.

 

[Ratpack]

Good points Rat.

Hey, I'm from Lexington too!!!

Small world, maybe there should be a SC DIS Meet!! Sorry

 

[dvczerfs]

That's funny. I actually don't even know what my billing rate is. I work for a big law firm (500+ lawyers) and I'm a junior associate so I basically get billed out at whatever the partners I work for decide I'm worth. From what I understand I know it's more than $100 but less than $300. I think it depends on the client.

well anyway, congrats on your hard work and aim to make a diff. in this world!

 

[Quiksilvr]

well anyway, congrats on your hard work and aim to make a diff. in this world!

*sigh* if only my salary had any relation to the billing rate.

 

[dvczerfs]

But your arguments are purely speculative "what ifs". I've had the membership 12 years, and see clearly how well it works for our family. It would likely work similarly well for a family that likes to spend a lot of time for Disney. Your stock market arguments are completely off base...this is money alloted for vacation taking, not investments.

Europe has had skyhigh gas prices for decades. Everybody there still travels all over Europe.

The same will happen here. People, technologly and infrastructure will adjust. WDW and other amusement parks will go on. Families will travel, just like they did when they had to climb in a covered wagon to do so.

do you know, theres not oneperson who are against dvc that go there, stay on property in the rooms we stay in, as many time as we do. im still waiting for one to tell me how i can stay in a 2 bedroom for 9-10 nights per year for less. (we paid $66.00 per point in 99) ill sell my points today if someone can.